The Intelligent & Relentless Pursuit of Muscle™
Politics and World Issues
 
What is the True Religion?
 

ZEB
Level

Join date: Sep 2003
Posts: 19363

Tiribulus wrote:
TigerTime wrote:Oh god dammit, you miss a week and a year's worth of posts pop up. W/e I'll just jump in somewhere.Please do and the sooner the better. This place has been laboring under the terrible strangling curse of your absence for far too long already.


So true Trib what this thread calls out for is the wit and wisdom of yet another 18 year old.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

KingKai25
Level 4

Join date: Feb 2012
Posts: 884

Alpha F wrote:
KingKai25wrote:

It wasn't something that could be withdrawn while the person was still alive.


It was simply something that could not be sustained without an intimate personal relationship with God.


That's not how ancient Near Easterners conceived of the "life-breath." It wasn't something that you could remove and still have a living person; it is the animating "force" of the body, so to speak. Once it was gone, you were dead. It didn't simply degrade because of an impaired relationship with God. For the ancients, it was something that God purposely withdrew at the time of a person's death. The withdrawing of the life-breath was the cause of death. My point is that there is a difference between the Holy Spirit placed on people to empower them for ministry and the life-breath animating each and every person.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Tiribulus
Level 1

Join date: Aug 2006
Posts: 16196

ZEB wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
TigerTime wrote:Oh god dammit, you miss a week and a year's worth of posts pop up. W/e I'll just jump in somewhere.
Please do and the sooner the better. This place has been laboring under the terrible strangling curse of your absence for far too long already.
So true Trib what this thread calls out for is the wit and wisdom of yet another 18 year old.
Well I wuz jist ribbin the lad. Kinda innocently tryin to get a rise out of him. Probably worked if I know him.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Brother Chris
Level 2

Join date: May 2005
Posts: 17056

KingKai25 wrote:
Alpha F wrote:
KingKai25wrote:

It wasn't something that could be withdrawn while the person was still alive.


It was simply something that could not be sustained without an intimate personal relationship with God.


That's not how ancient Near Easterners conceived of the "life-breath."


They also didn't get the Holy Ghost. I don't follow.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Alpha F
Level 4

Join date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3167

KingKai25 wrote:
Alpha F wrote:
KingKai25wrote:

It wasn't something that could be withdrawn while the person was still alive.


It was simply something that could not be sustained without an intimate personal relationship with God.


That's not how ancient Near Easterners conceived of the "life-breath." It wasn't something that you could remove and still have a living person; it is the animating "force" of the body, so to speak. Once it was gone, you were dead. It didn't simply degrade because of an impaired relationship with God. For the ancients, it was something that God purposely withdrew at the time of a person's death. The withdrawing of the life-breath was the cause of death. My point is that there is a difference between the Holy Spirit placed on people to empower them for ministry and the life-breath animating each and every person.


I never said the active force degraded. It would not explain children's deaths nor any death unrelated to ageing for that matter.
I meant simply we cannot control the active force that would normally sustain life endlessly: neither the person perishing nor a doctor/healer or in the case of the children their parents.
That power to sustain life simply does not belong to us.

Additionally, to my understanding there is nothing in the scriptures that God *actively* withdraws life in the way I understood your further explanation above. But I could have misunderstood your point on the "withdrawing".

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

KingKai25
Level 4

Join date: Feb 2012
Posts: 884

Alpha F wrote:
KingKai25 wrote:
Alpha F wrote:
KingKai25wrote:

It wasn't something that could be withdrawn while the person was still alive.


It was simply something that could not be sustained without an intimate personal relationship with God.


That's not how ancient Near Easterners conceived of the "life-breath." It wasn't something that you could remove and still have a living person; it is the animating "force" of the body, so to speak. Once it was gone, you were dead. It didn't simply degrade because of an impaired relationship with God. For the ancients, it was something that God purposely withdrew at the time of a person's death. The withdrawing of the life-breath was the cause of death. My point is that there is a difference between the Holy Spirit placed on people to empower them for ministry and the life-breath animating each and every person.


I never said the active force degraded. It would not explain children's deaths nor any death unrelated to ageing for that matter.
I meant simply we cannot control the active force that would normally sustain life endlessly: neither the person perishing nor a doctor/healer or in the case of the children their parents.
That power to sustain life simply does not belong to us.

Additionally, to my understanding there is nothing in the scriptures that God *actively* withdraws life in the way I understood your further explanation above. But I could have misunderstood your point on the "withdrawing".


There are several verses actually that convey this idea of the life-breath and the fact that death is related to God's removal of that life-breath. Psalm 104:25-29 (especially 29 - "when you (God) take away their (living beings) breath, they die"), Eccl. 12:7 ("and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the life breath returns to God who gave it"). My only point was that, in an ancient Near Eastern context (as indicated by other texts from the same general area and time period), death is a matter of divine intervention. The Holy Spirit, given for divine empowerment, is not the same thing as the animating breath. BC argued that it was; I'm pointing out that it isn't, because the removal of the life-breath = physical death. The removal of the Holy Spirit does not.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

TigerTime
Level

Join date: May 2011
Posts: 1369

ZEB wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
TigerTime wrote:Oh god dammit, you miss a week and a year's worth of posts pop up. W/e I'll just jump in somewhere.Please do and the sooner the better. This place has been laboring under the terrible strangling curse of your absence for far too long already.


So true Trib what this thread calls out for is the wit and wisdom of yet another 18 year old.


Hey, one moment of honest introspection is worth more than even a decade of availability cascade.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

ZEB
Level

Join date: Sep 2003
Posts: 19363

TigerTime wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
TigerTime wrote:Oh god dammit, you miss a week and a year's worth of posts pop up. W/e I'll just jump in somewhere.Please do and the sooner the better. This place has been laboring under the terrible strangling curse of your absence for far too long already.


So true Trib what this thread calls out for is the wit and wisdom of yet another 18 year old.


Hey, one moment of honest introspection is worth more than even a decade of availability cascade.



Wow...profound man...Really profound.


(See what I'm saying Trib?)

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

TigerTime
Level

Join date: May 2011
Posts: 1369

ZEB wrote:
TigerTime wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
TigerTime wrote:Oh god dammit, you miss a week and a year's worth of posts pop up. W/e I'll just jump in somewhere.Please do and the sooner the better. This place has been laboring under the terrible strangling curse of your absence for far too long already.


So true Trib what this thread calls out for is the wit and wisdom of yet another 18 year old.


Hey, one moment of honest introspection is worth more than even a decade of availability cascade.



Wow...profound man...Really profound.


(See what I'm saying Trib?)


This coming from the idiot who complained about me being "anonymous". If memory serves, you aren't exactly an intellectual heavyweight, older than me or not.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

ZEB
Level

Join date: Sep 2003
Posts: 19363

TigerTime wrote:
ZEB wrote:
TigerTime wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
TigerTime wrote:Oh god dammit, you miss a week and a year's worth of posts pop up. W/e I'll just jump in somewhere.Please do and the sooner the better. This place has been laboring under the terrible strangling curse of your absence for far too long already.


So true Trib what this thread calls out for is the wit and wisdom of yet another 18 year old.


Hey, one moment of honest introspection is worth more than even a decade of availability cascade.



Wow...profound man...Really profound.


(See what I'm saying Trib?)


This coming from the idiot who complained about me being "anonymous". If memory serves, you aren't exactly an intellectual heavyweight, older than me or not.



I don't know what you're referring to junior. But as to your intellectual heavyweight comment, I don't have to be it only takes common sense and a fly swatter to smack little turds like you on occasion.

Are you going to the prom this year?

Come on let't talk about things you actually know something about.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

pat
Level 3

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 17559

pookie wrote:
pat wrote:
The real one is relative? That means you can justify anything.


No, it means that morality is an evolving and changing social contract of what a great majority of people find acceptable for living together in society.

Just as slavery once was accepted, it's not anymore; mixed race marriages where illegal, they aren't anymore. Gay marriage is currently becoming accepted the world over, in 50 years, the bigots opposing it will be seen like slavers and racists are today.

Social acceptance has nothing, zero, to do with morality. Lot's of horrible things were socially acceptable at one point, but they were never moral.

It's just not how it works. If you are bound only to your senses for knowledge though you miss the bigger picture.
Morality is not tied into society, it's tied to suffering by sentient beings.

I can't believe people still hold on the the epic fail of relative morality....


I can't believe people read the Bible and find it moral at all.

I can't believe how many people who have never read it, claims to know what it's all about.

If you have to shove square pegs into round holes to justify your belief system,


Er, I don't.

You believe this idiotic idea of moral relativism because you have this great fear that if it isn't an ad hoc aberration of evolution, that might mean God exists. Which simply means that you neither know morality or God.
You can discuss morality independently of the existence of God.

Moral relativism breaks down at the extremes. That's how we know it's false.


No, that's how we know that you don't understand morality very well because you've given it very little thought. You just obey rules that were given to you, like a good child.

Well apparently I know enough about it to know that moral relativism is and has been a dead idea for years. Even the most staunch somewhat educated atheist know this. You should have jumped in to the morality thread where your some other atheist friends lost this same argument as miserably as you are and will continue to lose this one.

There is no point in discussing things you don't believe exist.


Who said anything about your sex life?


That was fucking genius man! Wow! Well I thought I had an argument till you made fun of me. Now I just must be wrong...
Seriously man, I thought you graduated high school.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

pat
Level 3

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 17559

pookie wrote:
pat wrote:
Mmmhmmm, I am not talking about little bits and pieces. I am talking about the whole thing. And no you didn't. Maybe you read the first 2 chapters of Genesis, but not the whole thing.


I skipped that part where it's only a ridiculously long list of names... the rest I read.

B) You don't believe in God so it hold zero meaning for you...


God holds zero meaning, but his followers have impact on my life, so that's where the interest is.

That's dumb, how? I for one don't get involved in other peoples beliefs one way or the other outside this here forum.
Other than the occational visit from a JW, other peoples beliefs don't impact me. So I am force to believe you are putting yourself in the way of others.

I don't. I think their idiots.


Glad we agree. Hope you understand I won't be wasting anymore time with you...

You can fuck off anytime you wish. I'll try not to cry.

And predetermined you to hell before you were born.... Don't worry, according to him, I will be holding the door open for you and slapping your ass with pitch fork as you are walking through.


Doesn't take much to get a christian to show his true colors.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

stefan128
Level 1

Join date: Jan 2011
Posts: 896

Quick question, in all seriousness, I am a Catholic btw. This has always run through my mind, but did Jesus ever joke around or anything like that? Loving this topic, also.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Brother Chris
Level 2

Join date: May 2005
Posts: 17056

stefan128 wrote:
Quick question, in all seriousness, I am a Catholic btw. This has always run through my mind, but did Jesus ever joke around or anything like that? Loving this topic, also.


Yes, see the Samaritan woman talking about eating scraps off her master's table like a dog.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

pat
Level 3

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 17559

stefan128 wrote:
Quick question, in all seriousness, I am a Catholic btw. This has always run through my mind, but did Jesus ever joke around or anything like that? Loving this topic, also.


I don't know... But join us in Catholic Q & A if you want... Given God's sense of humor, I'd reckon he could be pretty funny at times. He did after all turn water in to wine.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

TigerTime
Level

Join date: May 2011
Posts: 1369

ZEB wrote:
TigerTime wrote:
ZEB wrote:
TigerTime wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
TigerTime wrote:Oh god dammit, you miss a week and a year's worth of posts pop up. W/e I'll just jump in somewhere.Please do and the sooner the better. This place has been laboring under the terrible strangling curse of your absence for far too long already.


So true Trib what this thread calls out for is the wit and wisdom of yet another 18 year old.


Hey, one moment of honest introspection is worth more than even a decade of availability cascade.



Wow...profound man...Really profound.


(See what I'm saying Trib?)


This coming from the idiot who complained about me being "anonymous". If memory serves, you aren't exactly an intellectual heavyweight, older than me or not.



I don't know what you're referring to junior. But as to your intellectual heavyweight comment, I don't have to be it only takes common sense and a fly swatter to smack little turds like you on occasion.

Are you going to the prom this year?

Come on let't talk about things you actually know something about.


Past thread.

All right, challenge accepted. Let's go.

First off, what is the "true religion" according to ZEB?

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Tiribulus
Level 1

Join date: Aug 2006
Posts: 16196

Brother Chris wrote:
stefan128 wrote:Quick question, in all seriousness, I am a Catholic btw. This has always run through my mind, but did Jesus ever joke around or anything like that? Loving this topic, also.
Yes, see the Samaritan woman talking about eating scraps off her master's table like a dog.
Chris please tell me you're not being serious about this.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

ZEB
Level

Join date: Sep 2003
Posts: 19363

TigerTime wrote:
ZEB wrote:
TigerTime wrote:
ZEB wrote:
TigerTime wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
TigerTime wrote:Oh god dammit, you miss a week and a year's worth of posts pop up. W/e I'll just jump in somewhere.Please do and the sooner the better. This place has been laboring under the terrible strangling curse of your absence for far too long already.


So true Trib what this thread calls out for is the wit and wisdom of yet another 18 year old.


Hey, one moment of honest introspection is worth more than even a decade of availability cascade.



Wow...profound man...Really profound.


(See what I'm saying Trib?)


This coming from the idiot who complained about me being "anonymous". If memory serves, you aren't exactly an intellectual heavyweight, older than me or not.



I don't know what you're referring to junior. But as to your intellectual heavyweight comment, I don't have to be it only takes common sense and a fly swatter to smack little turds like you on occasion.

Are you going to the prom this year?

Come on let't talk about things you actually know something about.


Past thread.

All right, challenge accepted. Let's go.

First off, what is the "true religion" according to ZEB?



I told you to talk about things you know about junior. Not things that I know about.

Now how difficult do you think that history final will be?

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Brother Chris
Level 2

Join date: May 2005
Posts: 17056

Tiribulus wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
stefan128 wrote:Quick question, in all seriousness, I am a Catholic btw. This has always run through my mind, but did Jesus ever joke around or anything like that? Loving this topic, also.
Yes, see the Samaritan woman talking about eating scraps off her master's table like a dog.
Chris please tell me you're not being serious about this.


Cereal as Lucky Charms.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Tiribulus
Level 1

Join date: Aug 2006
Posts: 16196

Brother Chris wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
stefan128 wrote:Quick question, in all seriousness, I am a Catholic btw. This has always run through my mind, but did Jesus ever joke around or anything like that? Loving this topic, also.
Yes, see the Samaritan woman talking about eating scraps off her master's table like a dog.
Chris please tell me you're not being serious about this.
Cereal as Lucky Charms.
Is this your way of dissin me by making an entirely meaningless statement so as to imply that that is all my comments deserve? Or are you saying "yes, you are serious" in a goofy way? OR you're in good mood and not scowling at your screen while talking to me today?

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Fletch1986
Level 3

Join date: Aug 2007
Posts: 4872

Lot's of Christian and I'm guessing atheist viewpoints here (not said explicitly, but implicitly as I see it), I just wish we had some other viewpoints.

As of right now I'm leaning towards the God of Spinoza, but I need to do much more philosophical and religious reading before I can allow that foundation to solidify.

And I'll publicly state this in this forum:

If anyone (atheist, religious, etc) thinks I say something offensive to their belief system, please let me know and also why. I'll even apologize on the forums if I'm convinced.




  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Fletch1986
Level 3

Join date: Aug 2007
Posts: 4872

Tiribulus wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
stefan128 wrote:Quick question, in all seriousness, I am a Catholic btw. This has always run through my mind, but did Jesus ever joke around or anything like that? Loving this topic, also.
Yes, see the Samaritan woman talking about eating scraps off her master's table like a dog.
Chris please tell me you're not being serious about this.
Cereal as Lucky Charms.
Is this your way of dissin me by making an entirely meaningless statement so as to imply that that is all my comments deserve? Or are you saying "yes, you are serious" in a goofy way? OR you're in good mood and not scowling at your screen while talking to me today?


I hope you don't mind BC but I wanna take a hack at it. I'm guessing B with a little bit of C.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Tiribulus
Level 1

Join date: Aug 2006
Posts: 16196

Fletch1986 wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
stefan128 wrote:Quick question, in all seriousness, I am a Catholic btw. This has always run through my mind, but did Jesus ever joke around or anything like that? Loving this topic, also.
Yes, see the Samaritan woman talking about eating scraps off her master's table like a dog.
Chris please tell me you're not being serious about this.
Cereal as Lucky Charms.
Is this your way of dissin me by making an entirely meaningless statement so as to imply that that is all my comments deserve? Or are you saying "yes, you are serious" in a goofy way? OR you're in good mood and not scowling at your screen while talking to me today?


I hope you don't mind BC but I wanna take a hack at it. I'm guessing B with a little bit of C.
Brother with a little bit of Chris? I gotta get outta here. It's spreading. Fletch is goin screwy on me too.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Fletch1986
Level 3

Join date: Aug 2007
Posts: 4872

Lol, no. What I think Brother Chris is saying is mostly saying yes in a goofy way plus a little bit of good mood thrown in there too.

I guess being engrossed in the world of academia makes me see letter options whenever I see a question laid out in multiple choice format.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Brother Chris
Level 2

Join date: May 2005
Posts: 17056

Tiribulus wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
stefan128 wrote:Quick question, in all seriousness, I am a Catholic btw. This has always run through my mind, but did Jesus ever joke around or anything like that? Loving this topic, also.
Yes, see the Samaritan woman talking about eating scraps off her master's table like a dog.
Chris please tell me you're not being serious about this.
Cereal as Lucky Charms.
Is this your way of dissin me by making an entirely meaningless statement so as to imply that that is all my comments deserve? Or are you saying "yes, you are serious" in a goofy way? OR you're in good mood and not scowling at your screen while talking to me today?


I never scowl at my screen. I am saying I'm serious.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report