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Atlas Shrugged
 

thunderbolt23
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Join date: Mar 2003
Posts: 8162

JEATON wrote:

and Thunderbolt....

We have been down this road before. You mock what you don't understand even as you all but admit you have never completely read it. You are to politics/philosophy what Tirib is to Christianity. You pretend to stand on a mountaintop with an all encompassing view. While I have admired your knowledge base often, you take yourself far too seriously.


I understand her and her works fine, having read them - or as much of them as I could stand - and I never pretended to be on a mountaintop about anything. What rankles you is that I had the audacity to insult your precious cult leader along perfectly legitimate grounds, and you threw a tantrum.

Tell me, though, JEATON - as a Randian, surely you have traded out your cross for a dollar sign by now?

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SexMachine
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Join date: Mar 2011
Posts: 7933

thunderbolt23 wrote:
Rand's books are children's books, and not even good ones. Adoloscents start quoting the books' banalities like they are some form of gospel heretofore never understood by adults, but there is nothing profound in them. She just rewarms the fable of the Golden Goose and serves it in a verbose and droning package.


Dude, how can you deny the genius of Howard Roark? Rejecting everything that came before - Greco-Roman gibberish. A hero of modern architecture fighting against the reactionary/revanchists! Look at modern architecture and tell me you're not impressed. And Garry Cooper! Oh, he brought Roark alive! A tall drink of water if I do say so myself. And who is John Galt? That's what we finally find out! Utopianism! That's the ticket.

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SexMachine
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SexMachine
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As push said "repeal the 19th" - and good work Ayn. Can't always be wrong. 8*)

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LIFTICVSMAXIMVS
Level 1

Join date: Apr 2005
Posts: 11983

groo wrote:
I think this quote sums up most of Rand for me


"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old?s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."


That is a funny quote but it is just a shame that believe it is true.

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pat
Level 3

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 17645

I absolutely hate Ayn Rand and her 3rd grade Mickey Mouse Club philosophy. I can look at a fly on a piece of dog shit and derive more meaning.
The fact that she is for capitolism and the free market system does not help my opinion of her one bit. It's not like that's hard stuff to figure out anyway.

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LIFTICVSMAXIMVS
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Join date: Apr 2005
Posts: 11983

Tiribulus wrote:
I'm no Ayn Rand scholar, but from what I have read she always struck me as a personally miserable human being who was much more sure of what she didn't want to believe than she was of what she actually did believe. She can seem either far right or far left depending on which way you tilt your head while reading her.


Brilliant people who are surrounded by idiots and have come from miserable conditions have not much cause to not be miserable.

If she seems both equally left and right it is because she was a libertarian before the word even existed; however, she was naive in her belief that government would limit its size and scope through the "will of he people".

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LIFTICVSMAXIMVS
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Join date: Apr 2005
Posts: 11983

SexMachine wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
Rand's books are children's books, and not even good ones. Adoloscents start quoting the books' banalities like they are some form of gospel heretofore never understood by adults, but there is nothing profound in them. She just rewarms the fable of the Golden Goose and serves it in a verbose and droning package.


Dude, how can you deny the genius of Howard Roark? Rejecting everything that came before - Greco-Roman gibberish. A hero of modern architecture fighting against the reactionary/revanchists! Look at modern architecture and tell me you're not impressed. And Garry Cooper! Oh, he brought Roark alive! A tall drink of water if I do say so myself. And who is John Galt? That's what we finally find out! Utopianism! That's the ticket.


Every man wants his own utopia and to deny it is to deny your own nature.

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orion
Level 5

Join date: Jun 2005
Posts: 24999

pat wrote:

The fact that she is for capitolism ...


No, thats Obama.

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pittbulll
Level 3

Join date: May 2005
Posts: 11049

orion wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
groo wrote:
I think this quote sums up most of Rand for me


"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old?s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."



I thought the trilogy was awesome , I do like Atlas Shrugged but it seems to becoming a straw man. I do wonder if it is possibly a depiction of the Robber Barron era or possibly a look at Russia at some period in history ?


Yeah?

Get on Youtube and watch the miracle that is Barney Frank.

If you can find out which character he is you win 5 internets.

Also, all of the laws in the book have been done before, in the US.



That is what I was curious about , it had to be a book about history . It is too complex and intertwined to be a product of imagination

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pittbulll
Level 3

Join date: May 2005
Posts: 11049

LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
SexMachine wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
Rand's books are children's books, and not even good ones. Adoloscents start quoting the books' banalities like they are some form of gospel heretofore never understood by adults, but there is nothing profound in them. She just rewarms the fable of the Golden Goose and serves it in a verbose and droning package.


Dude, how can you deny the genius of Howard Roark? Rejecting everything that came before - Greco-Roman gibberish. A hero of modern architecture fighting against the reactionary/revanchists! Look at modern architecture and tell me you're not impressed. And Garry Cooper! Oh, he brought Roark alive! A tall drink of water if I do say so myself. And who is John Galt? That's what we finally find out! Utopianism! That's the ticket.


Every man wants his own utopia and to deny it is to deny your own nature.



It would be a true utopia but I could not see it getting too big

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SexMachine
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Join date: Mar 2011
Posts: 7933

LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
SexMachine wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
Rand's books are children's books, and not even good ones. Adoloscents start quoting the books' banalities like they are some form of gospel heretofore never understood by adults, but there is nothing profound in them. She just rewarms the fable of the Golden Goose and serves it in a verbose and droning package.


Dude, how can you deny the genius of Howard Roark? Rejecting everything that came before - Greco-Roman gibberish. A hero of modern architecture fighting against the reactionary/revanchists! Look at modern architecture and tell me you're not impressed. And Garry Cooper! Oh, he brought Roark alive! A tall drink of water if I do say so myself. And who is John Galt? That's what we finally find out! Utopianism! That's the ticket.


Every man wants his own utopia and to deny it is to deny your own nature.


What happens where one guy's utopian dream conflicts with another guy's? Say, Tom's dream is to rob and kill Harry. Dick's dream is to rob and kill Harry. You're Harry. What do you do? BTW - Dick and Tom broke into your house and took any firearms that were there.

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Tiribulus
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Join date: Aug 2006
Posts: 16201

SexMachine wrote:

As push said "repeal the 19th" - and good work Ayn. Can't always be wrong. 8*)
That's an amazing quote. Sounds like the biblical view of women in the church.

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Headhunter
Level 4

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 15061

JEATON wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:<<< there is nothing profound in them. >>>
This has come up before. The randies will throw up some quote of hers and then stand back, arms folded, nose in the air, sort of silently and smugly emanating an attitude of "BAM!! Take that knaves". I've never gotten it. These quotes invariably range from random personal proclamations that are mildly thought provoking to truly unintelligible gibberish. Seriously. There have been times where an otherwise at least passably intelligent individual will post some of her thoughts and I'm honestly just staring at the screen. I'm almost afraid to respond. It's like "either I am REALLY missin it or this woman holds some sort of spell over people whereby they mistake their cat walking across their keyboard with life changing profundity.


He read it once, as a teen. Therefore he knows all about it.


All this from a sanctimonious prick who all but worships another sanctimonious prick who also happened to be a mass murderer.

I have made an honest effort to avoid you short of putting you on ignore.

Please do me the solid of crawling back to your thread (you know the one where you preach that you alone know the mind of God and everyone else is just hell spawn.)

and Thunderbolt....

We have been down this road before. You mock what you don't understand even as you all but admit you have never completely read it. You are to politics/philosophy what Tirib is to Christianity. You pretend to stand on a mountaintop with an all encompassing view. While I have admired your knowledge base often, you take yourself far too seriously.

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LIFTICVSMAXIMVS
Level 1

Join date: Apr 2005
Posts: 11983

SexMachine wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
SexMachine wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
Rand's books are children's books, and not even good ones. Adoloscents start quoting the books' banalities like they are some form of gospel heretofore never understood by adults, but there is nothing profound in them. She just rewarms the fable of the Golden Goose and serves it in a verbose and droning package.


Dude, how can you deny the genius of Howard Roark? Rejecting everything that came before - Greco-Roman gibberish. A hero of modern architecture fighting against the reactionary/revanchists! Look at modern architecture and tell me you're not impressed. And Garry Cooper! Oh, he brought Roark alive! A tall drink of water if I do say so myself. And who is John Galt? That's what we finally find out! Utopianism! That's the ticket.


Every man wants his own utopia and to deny it is to deny your own nature.


What happens where one guy's utopian dream conflicts with another guy's? Say, Tom's dream is to rob and kill Harry. Dick's dream is to rob and kill Harry. You're Harry. What do you do? BTW - Dick and Tom broke into your house and took any firearms that were there.


Conflicts don't happen in a utopia.

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zecarlo
Level 5

Join date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2357

LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
SexMachine wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
SexMachine wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
Rand's books are children's books, and not even good ones. Adoloscents start quoting the books' banalities like they are some form of gospel heretofore never understood by adults, but there is nothing profound in them. She just rewarms the fable of the Golden Goose and serves it in a verbose and droning package.


Dude, how can you deny the genius of Howard Roark? Rejecting everything that came before - Greco-Roman gibberish. A hero of modern architecture fighting against the reactionary/revanchists! Look at modern architecture and tell me you're not impressed. And Garry Cooper! Oh, he brought Roark alive! A tall drink of water if I do say so myself. And who is John Galt? That's what we finally find out! Utopianism! That's the ticket.


Every man wants his own utopia and to deny it is to deny your own nature.


What happens where one guy's utopian dream conflicts with another guy's? Say, Tom's dream is to rob and kill Harry. Dick's dream is to rob and kill Harry. You're Harry. What do you do? BTW - Dick and Tom broke into your house and took any firearms that were there.


Conflicts don't happen in a utopia.

Maybe not within but what about between different utopias?

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LIFTICVSMAXIMVS
Level 1

Join date: Apr 2005
Posts: 11983

zecarlo wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
SexMachine wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
SexMachine wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
Rand's books are children's books, and not even good ones. Adoloscents start quoting the books' banalities like they are some form of gospel heretofore never understood by adults, but there is nothing profound in them. She just rewarms the fable of the Golden Goose and serves it in a verbose and droning package.


Dude, how can you deny the genius of Howard Roark? Rejecting everything that came before - Greco-Roman gibberish. A hero of modern architecture fighting against the reactionary/revanchists! Look at modern architecture and tell me you're not impressed. And Garry Cooper! Oh, he brought Roark alive! A tall drink of water if I do say so myself. And who is John Galt? That's what we finally find out! Utopianism! That's the ticket.


Every man wants his own utopia and to deny it is to deny your own nature.


What happens where one guy's utopian dream conflicts with another guy's? Say, Tom's dream is to rob and kill Harry. Dick's dream is to rob and kill Harry. You're Harry. What do you do? BTW - Dick and Tom broke into your house and took any firearms that were there.


Conflicts don't happen in a utopia.

Maybe not within but what about between different utopias?


Man wants utopia.

Conflicts don't happen in utopia.

Man does not want conflict.

Conflicts happen

Utopia does not exist.

I am just illustrating a point that SM always errs on.

He assumes that libertarians are utopianists when in fact we are libertarians and not utopianists precisely because we know that conflicts arise and we need a way to deal with them.

It's one thing to want utopia. It's another thing to act in ways that assumes it can exist which is the way SM incorrectly advances his argument against libertarians.

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orion
Level 5

Join date: Jun 2005
Posts: 24999

orion wrote:
pat wrote:

The fact that she is for capitolism ...


No, thats Obama.


Really?

"Capitolism" !?!

No one?

I thought that that was at least somewhat clever and I am dissapoint.

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Tiribulus
Level 1

Join date: Aug 2006
Posts: 16201

orion wrote:<<< I am dissapoint.
Good ta meet ya, I am full satisfy =]

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zecarlo
Level 5

Join date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2357

LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
zecarlo wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
SexMachine wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
SexMachine wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
Rand's books are children's books, and not even good ones. Adoloscents start quoting the books' banalities like they are some form of gospel heretofore never understood by adults, but there is nothing profound in them. She just rewarms the fable of the Golden Goose and serves it in a verbose and droning package.


Dude, how can you deny the genius of Howard Roark? Rejecting everything that came before - Greco-Roman gibberish. A hero of modern architecture fighting against the reactionary/revanchists! Look at modern architecture and tell me you're not impressed. And Garry Cooper! Oh, he brought Roark alive! A tall drink of water if I do say so myself. And who is John Galt? That's what we finally find out! Utopianism! That's the ticket.


Every man wants his own utopia and to deny it is to deny your own nature.


What happens where one guy's utopian dream conflicts with another guy's? Say, Tom's dream is to rob and kill Harry. Dick's dream is to rob and kill Harry. You're Harry. What do you do? BTW - Dick and Tom broke into your house and took any firearms that were there.


Conflicts don't happen in a utopia.

Maybe not within but what about between different utopias?


Man wants utopia.

Conflicts don't happen in utopia.

Man does not want conflict.

Conflicts happen

Utopia does not exist.

I am just illustrating a point that SM always errs on.

He assumes that libertarians are utopianists when in fact we are libertarians and not utopianists precisely because we know that conflicts arise and we need a way to deal with them.

It's one thing to want utopia. It's another thing to act in ways that assumes it can exist which is the way SM incorrectly advances his argument against libertarians.

If man didn't want conflict he would not have invented marriage.

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LIFTICVSMAXIMVS
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Join date: Apr 2005
Posts: 11983

zecarlo wrote:
If man didn't want conflict he would not have invented marriage.


Actually, man invented marriage precisely to avoid conflict with other men regarding women.

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FrankCastle
Level 2

Join date: Apr 2007
Posts: 78

I never quite got Ryand. I understood her basic ideas, but they never made sense to me. Take Howard Roark. He rejects the old and wants to build his buildings the way he wants them. Now in order to survive, people need to pay him to do a job. Why is it unreasonable for them to want a job done the way they want it done if their paying him to do it? For a real world example, if I pay you to paint my house blue and come back and see that you painted it yellow because of your "artistic vision", should you get paid?

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thunderbolt23
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Join date: Mar 2003
Posts: 8162

By the way, JEATON - still waiting for an answer on this:

Tell me, though, JEATON - as a Randian, surely you have traded out your cross for a dollar sign by now?

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NAUn
Level 3

Join date: Feb 2006
Posts: 351

FrankCastle wrote:
I never quite got Ryand. I understood her basic ideas, but they never made sense to me. Take Howard Roark. He rejects the old and wants to build his buildings the way he wants them. Now in order to survive, people need to pay him to do a job. Why is it unreasonable for them to want a job done the way they want it done if their paying him to do it? For a real world example, if I pay you to paint my house blue and come back and see that you painted it yellow because of your "artistic vision", should you get paid?


Of course, because you are a fool for wanting blue when yellow is clearly the only color for your house. Now shut up and worship at my feet... or I'll blow it up.

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pittbulll
Level 3

Join date: May 2005
Posts: 11049

I really liked the book , it took me two weeks to listen to the whole thing, I think it is brilliant . I do not buy the whole notion she sells but I do agree a strong market is mandatory for a healthy economy. I alos do not think Rand would condone a society with NO regulations . I understand it to be the only rule is to not harm another and that would be a good regulation

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