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T Replacement
 
TRT: Protocol for Injections
 

VTBalla34
Level 5

Join date: Mar 2009
Location: District of Columbia, USA
Posts: 7534

shizen wrote:
WOw thats a lot of hcg in the op is that really necessary? I know guys have been on test replacement for a long time yet never heard of them using hcg also. Do I need that much hcg? I use that dose when on full cycle of 750mg+ of test a week.


This is actually not a lot of HCG at all...and there is a reason we recommend the same amount on TRT as those using AAS...its meant as a REPLACEMENT dose...no more, no less...so yeah, the fact that is what you used is not at all surprising...

Its weird you think that is "a lot" of HCG when there are some moronic websites out there recommending thousands of iu PER DAY...

The fact that you know many guys on TRT without HCG may or may not be relevant...how do they feel on their protocols? I personally do not recommend HCG until there is a demonstrated need, based on symptoms (shrunken nads, low pregnenolone symptoms, etc) and bloodwork (LH/FSH = 0). Everyone's mileage will vary.

Personally, I have not yet needed HCG on 160 mg/week of T because my LH/FSH is not shut down at that level.

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DNRCMO
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Join date: Dec 2011
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 1

VTBalla34 wrote:
I've been mulling this protocol over for the past couple months. With the influx of new posters we are getting here due to our prominence in google search, we are finding it to be much less applicable for guys right out the gate.

When this stickey was written, we were a smaller community of people already on TRT and dealt with mostly statistical outliers who found us because their regular TRT just was not getting the job done. These people are well advised to investigate the protocol in this stickey, or at least be aware of the symptoms it will correct (and how to verify those symptoms and improvements with bloodwork and biological feedback).

However the new guys seem to be looking to get on TRT in the first place, trying to determine whether their symptoms could be caused by Low T, or are trying to get to the bottom of some other non-T related hormonal issue (cortisol, thyroid, etc.).

I am alarmed at the number of them who postpone getting the initial medical help they need because they want all the stars and moons to align so that their doctor prescribes them this exact protocol right out the gate. To make matters worse, they sometimes print the stickey out verbatim and go in to their initial doctor's appointment demanding this protocol (without the accompanying knowledge of WHY) , alienating their doctors from the get go.

THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS THAT THOUSANDS OF MEN ARE DOING FINE ON TEST INJECTIONS ALONE!!!!

Even the ones on the fucked up every two weeks protocol!!!

Not everyone needs hcg and an AI, despite what you read in the stickeys. And I would advocate that no one needs it right out the gate.

Now that you're here, you have an appreciation for what other factors need to be accounted for as you start TRT. You know what symptoms to look out for and what likely causes are, and most importantly, how to remedy them. This is great knowledge to have in your back pocket, but take the easiest approach first!

It's easier to work with your doctor in baby steps. I would suggest trying T alone and then trying to convince your doc to add things in incrementally.

If all else fails, and your doctor continues to be a moron despite you not feeling good on your current protocol and with bloodwork/physical symptoms to back up your need for the protocol, the good news is that AI's and HCG are readily available from underground sources on the www. You may be forced to self treat in that regard for a while, but by then you will be far ahead of where you are now.


This is the answer I was looking for as I read this thread. I recently found out I have low T levels and am in negoations with my doc on a treatment. So this thread is not for people just starting TRT. If, after a few weeks and other tests, it is determined I'm not feeling right, this might play a factor??

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PureChance
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Join date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 1547

Yes but with some disclaimers:

You should always get all of the recommended blood work before starting any hormone treatments (to get a solid baseline in case you are one of the hard to fix cases).

You should look to uncover and correct any adrenal(cortisol) or thyroid issues before jumping into hormone treatment program.

You should educate yourself and be aware of the most likely potential issues and some of the potential solutions since you know you can not rely 100% on your doctor's expertise or your doctor being 100% fully vested in your care.

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3RDBASE
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Join date: Mar 2012
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helluva thread..thanks KSman for all the info

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killergoalie
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Just curious as to why you recommend the 29 gauge 0.5" 0.5 ml insulin syringes, but not the 29 gauge, o.5", 1.0 ml insulin syringes?

I've just begun TRT, and plan on doing Sub-Q injections 2 x per week into my bellyfat @ 50-60 mg per injection. I bought a package of 29 gauge 0.5" (1/2" needle) 1.0 ml syringes, but now I read that you say Do Not Use these ones. Just curious as to the reason why not.

Thanks

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killergoalie
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Just curious as to why you recommend the 29 gauge 0.5" 0.5 ml insulin syringes, but not the 29 gauge, o.5", 1.0 ml insulin syringes?

I've just begun TRT, and plan on doing Sub-Q injections 2 x per week into my bellyfat @ 50-60 mg per injection. I bought a package of 29 gauge 0.5" (1/2" needle) 1.0 ml syringes, but now I read that you say Do Not Use these ones. Just curious as to the reason why not.

Thanks

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3RDBASE
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KSman

whenever you have some time if you could take a look:

im planning to follow your protocol 100mgs weekly divided in 3 shots sub Q on mond, wed ,frid

250 ius of hcg EOD

ARIMIDEX .25 EOD

My question is ..if T shots are done on mon ,wed ,fri..what days are the best to take the hcg and arimidex doses..same days as t shots , day before T shots or after??

thank you ,Sir

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VTBalla34
Level 5

Join date: Mar 2009
Location: District of Columbia, USA
Posts: 7534

killergoalie wrote:
Just curious as to why you recommend the 29 gauge 0.5" 0.5 ml insulin syringes, but not the 29 gauge, o.5", 1.0 ml insulin syringes?

I've just begun TRT, and plan on doing Sub-Q injections 2 x per week into my bellyfat @ 50-60 mg per injection. I bought a package of 29 gauge 0.5" (1/2" needle) 1.0 ml syringes, but now I read that you say Do Not Use these ones. Just curious as to the reason why not.

Thanks


They are fine. I wasn't aware 1.0 mL existed. You may have trouble generating enough pressure with these though and injection time may be slow, whereas with the 0.5 mL it is very quick.

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VTBalla34
Level 5

Join date: Mar 2009
Location: District of Columbia, USA
Posts: 7534

3RDBASE wrote:
KSman

whenever you have some time if you could take a look:

im planning to follow your protocol 100mgs weekly divided in 3 shots sub Q on mond, wed ,frid

250 ius of hcg EOD

ARIMIDEX .25 EOD

My question is ..if T shots are done on mon ,wed ,fri..what days are the best to take the hcg and arimidex doses..same days as t shots , day before T shots or after??

thank you ,Sir


Easiest just to take it all the same day (3x/week)...no need to complicate things...tweak it if you don't feel right.

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killergoalie
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VTBalla34 wrote:
killergoalie wrote:
Just curious as to why you recommend the 29 gauge 0.5" 0.5 ml insulin syringes, but not the 29 gauge, o.5", 1.0 ml insulin syringes?

I've just begun TRT, and plan on doing Sub-Q injections 2 x per week into my bellyfat @ 50-60 mg per injection. I bought a package of 29 gauge 0.5" (1/2" needle) 1.0 ml syringes, but now I read that you say Do Not Use these ones. Just curious as to the reason why not.

Thanks


They are fine. I wasn't aware 1.0 mL existed. You may have trouble generating enough pressure with these though and injection time may be slow, whereas with the 0.5 mL it is very quick.



Thanks, VTBalla34, that's good to know. I'll use the 0.5 ml ones then.

Good thing I only bought a pkg of 10 1.0 ml syringes.

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VTBalla34
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Join date: Mar 2009
Location: District of Columbia, USA
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I'd be curious to see how the injection time is for you. Stop by and give us an update after a few pins.

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killergoalie
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Will do, VTBalla34.

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3RDBASE
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VTBalla34 wrote:
3RDBASE wrote:
KSman

whenever you have some time if you could take a look:

im planning to follow your protocol 100mgs weekly divided in 3 shots sub Q on mond, wed ,frid

250 ius of hcg EOD

ARIMIDEX .25 EOD

My question is ..if T shots are done on mon ,wed ,fri..what days are the best to take the hcg and arimidex doses..same days as t shots , day before T shots or after??

thank you ,Sir


Easiest just to take it all the same day (3x/week)...no need to complicate things...tweak it if you don't feel right.



Thank you, Sir.

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killergoalie
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VTBalla34 wrote:
I'd be curious to see how the injection time is for you. Stop by and give us an update after a few pins.



Just finished my first Sub-Q self injection. (Actually it was my first self injection ever of any type.)

Used a #29 Gauge, 1.0 C.C. 0.5" (1/2") Needle, Insulin Syringe.

Took about 2.5 - 3 minutes to load the syringe with 50mg of 100MG/ML strength Testosterone-Cypionate, and about 1 minute to inject.

Needed a fair amount of pressure on the plunger to inject, but slow, and steady pressure got the job done.

I injected it into my belly fat about 4 inches to the right of my navel. I also injected at 90° since I still have quite a bit of fat around my stomach.

Felt absolutely no pain whatsoever.

There was only a very small drop of blood at the spot after I removed the needle, which I wiped away with a cotton ball, after I applied gentle pressure to it for a
minute or so.

So far, no pain, bruising, swelling at the injection site, but I'll give it a while.

For my next injection, which will be around 8:00 P.M. on Wednesday, I might try using a #29 Gauge, 0.5 C.C. 0.5" (1/2") Needle, Insulin syringe to see if it produces a bit more pressure while injecting.

Anyway sorry for the lengthy post, I just wanted to be as thorough as possible in case others were considering doing Sub-Q injections, and wanted a bit of information concerning timing issues. Esp using a 1.0 C.C. 0.5" (1/2") Needle, Insulin Syringe.

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3RDBASE
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How long (approximately) would it take for the described protocol above to start working? after heavy cycling for most of last year (never again) I've been trying different trt protocols myself and have yet found my "sweet spot" hopefuly this one will work.

also , I forgot to add how much pregnolone and DHEA is recommended daily??

Thank you ,guys and im sorry, just wanna make sure I cover all bases.

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KSman
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DHEA: depends on DHEA-S lab results

This is a sticky, not a place for personal issues, only the subject at hand. Please create your own post for your "case" [see you there]. See the advice for new guys sticky as well. Yes, this sticky is a mess already.

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3RDBASE
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I see , my apologies..I'll start my own thread.

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colby80210
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Join date: Mar 2011
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 2

Great thread here. I read everything I could for the last few weeks, printed out some notes and went to my Dr. Being informed ensures your Dr will listen and discuss options rather than dismissing you with little regard. I requested blood work a few weeks ago (after reviewing the lab work forum) and received the following -

Test: 281 ng/dl (ref: 350-890)
FT: 6.65 ng/dl (ref: 4.7-24.4)
%Free Test: 2.4 (ref: 1.6-2.9)
SHGB: 22.6 mol/l (ref: 13-71)
TSH: 1.05 uIU/ml (ref: 0.3-5.0)
E2: 30.5 pg/ml (ref: 0-56)
DHEA-Sulfate: 227 ug/dL (ref: 95-530)
40 years old, long time lifter. No experience with AAS, 2 months of pro hormones.

He gave me a scrip for a test gel and arimedex. I discussed the HCG but he wasn't too aware of it's usage in TRT. I asked for IM/SC test which he was open to but suggested we start out low on the list and evaluate as we go. Anyway, thanks for the info KSman, VTBalla34 and others who contributed.

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VTBalla34
Level 5

Join date: Mar 2009
Location: District of Columbia, USA
Posts: 7534

colby80210 wrote:
Great thread here. I read everything I could for the last few weeks, printed out some notes and went to my Dr. Being informed ensures your Dr will listen and discuss options rather than dismissing you with little regard. I requested blood work a few weeks ago (after reviewing the lab work forum) and received the following -

Test: 281 ng/dl (ref: 350-890)
FT: 6.65 ng/dl (ref: 4.7-24.4)
%Free Test: 2.4 (ref: 1.6-2.9)
SHGB: 22.6 mol/l (ref: 13-71)
TSH: 1.05 uIU/ml (ref: 0.3-5.0)
E2: 30.5 pg/ml (ref: 0-56)
DHEA-Sulfate: 227 ug/dL (ref: 95-530)
40 years old, long time lifter. No experience with AAS, 2 months of pro hormones.

He gave me a scrip for a test gel and arimedex. I discussed the HCG but he wasn't too aware of it's usage in TRT. I asked for IM/SC test which he was open to but suggested we start out low on the list and evaluate as we go. Anyway, thanks for the info KSman, VTBalla34 and others who contributed.


This thread is for general information only. If you want to start your own case thread with your own bloodwork and treatment, please do so, but keep it out of this one.

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artyi
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Join date: Jan 2012
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 27

Have a problem with my protocol.

The only way i get syringes officialy from the doctor are:

Test E in 250mg/1ml
hCG in 5000ui

How should i treat my self? with Test E im doing E9D.
Also taking 0.5mg AI E7D by cutting pill into the half.
But there is no way I can split my Test and hCg... Any suggestions?

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artyi
Level

Join date: Jan 2012
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 27

artyi wrote:
Have a problem with my protocol.

The only way i get syringes officialy from the doctor are:

Test E in 250mg/1ml
hCG in 5000ui

How should i treat my self? with Test E im doing E9D.
Also taking 0.5mg AI E7D by cutting pill into the half.
But there is no way I can split my Test and hCg... Any suggestions?


Please, help! Very concerned with AI...

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Onebiteonekill
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Join date: Sep 2012
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 1

killergoalie wrote:
VTBalla34 wrote:
I'd be curious to see how the injection time is for you. Stop by and give us an update after a few pins.



Just finished my first Sub-Q self injection. (Actually it was my first self injection ever of any type.)

Used a #29 Gauge, 1.0 C.C. 0.5" (1/2") Needle, Insulin Syringe.

Took about 2.5 - 3 minutes to load the syringe with 50mg of 100MG/ML strength Testosterone-Cypionate, and about 1 minute to inject.

Needed a fair amount of pressure on the plunger to inject, but slow, and steady pressure got the job done.

I injected it into my belly fat about 4 inches to the right of my navel. I also injected at 90?° since I still have quite a bit of fat around my stomach.

Felt absolutely no pain whatsoever.

There was only a very small drop of blood at the spot after I removed the needle, which I wiped away with a cotton ball, after I applied gentle pressure to it for a
minute or so.

So far, no pain, bruising, swelling at the injection site, but I'll give it a while.

For my next injection, which will be around 8:00 P.M. on Wednesday, I might try using a #29 Gauge, 0.5 C.C. 0.5" (1/2") Needle, Insulin syringe to see if it produces a bit more pressure while injecting.

Anyway sorry for the lengthy post, I just wanted to be as thorough as possible in case others were considering doing Sub-Q injections, and wanted a bit of information concerning timing issues. Esp using a 1.0 C.C. 0.5" (1/2") Needle, Insulin Syringe.


killergoalie, how are the injections going?

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KSman
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THIS IS NOT A CHAT ROOM! HIS POST WAS OUT OF PLACE AND SO IS YOURS.

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The Mayor
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Join date: Oct 2012
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 5

I'm a bit confused from a few things I've read in this thread about this:

If one were supplementing with a small amount of gh (2iu ED) and also taking the HCG as recommended here, can they be combined and taken in one injection since they are both water based?

Of course, this also begs the question of whether taking 1/2 the recommended amount of HCG ED is okay to do instead of taking the full amount EOD.

If I'm sticking myself ED for the equivalent of 2IU of gh, I'd prefer to mix it so that one injection gets the required ratio of gh/hcg rather than pin-cushioning myself more than necessary.

Thanks,

TM

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KSman
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You can mix peptides, do not know if the hCG would impede or limit $GH absorption. Do not mix with a peptide that has more than BA water or sterile water.

Take other questions to your own thread.

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