That will work for T+AI, however, for most, that is not enough AI. With a liquid product, you are not a slave to how an anastrozole tablet can be split.

hCG half life makes EOD dosing better, and your hCG dose is a bit excessive. Too much hCG can create E2 problems that AI cannot fix. For those who want to inject hCG EOD, injecting taking T+AI at the same time is an easier procedure to follow.

Yes, this thread has been abused.

Im just shaking my head reading this thread..
I went to the doc and said I was feeling like crap and had been for years.
He put me on testosterone and voila, done deal..
Been on for 13 months of 7 X 40mg caps of testosterone per day and I feel great..
Best I have felt in years.. Nuts aint shrunk..
Now Im reading I should be on hCG and or arimidex and I need to have blood tests?

Eh? You guys sure about all this stuff. Seems all very complicated! :-(

ok, just figured it out.. message needs to be approved first!

Do not post personal details here, this is a sticky, read on...

Keep reading the stickies, nothing to add that is not there now.

Balancing your hormones is more than just adding T. Start your own thread and keep everything about you there. Read the advice for new guys sticky, provide info about you, post your labs with ranges, post body temps and iodine intake [see thyroid basics for more info].

You should not be starting TRT without knowing what went wrong, you need LH and FSH for that. If you started TRT without labs, then one has to wonder about safety issues such as PSA, DRE and HTC that your doc may not be doing. You do not even know if your are absorbing T well.

Oral T can be expensive because so much is not absorbed or metabolized by first pass thru the liver. You are taking 280mg/week or 280mg/day?

Please do not respond, here, start your own thread.

Is there such thing as a good protocol for HGH? The place I go for T just annouced they will be scripting HGH. I've read it can be dangerouse but the stuff they are pushing says it promotes better mood, sex, motabolizim, faster healing.. It sounds good but whats the proper protocol for such a thing. Im interested in trying it but Im doing just fine on my TRT...

As with TRT, injecting GH will suppress your own production. If you are younger and producing 1iu per day on your own, if you then inject 1iu, your serum IGF-1 levels will not change much, probably would stay the same. So that means a cost of around $3,600 per year for nothing. If you inject 1.5iu per day, then your IGF-1 would increase about 50% above your baseline and that will cost $5400.

So you can see from the above that the benefits of injected GH go to those who have a deficiency.

For someone who is deficient, T+GH has a much better results that T or GH alone.

Getting Rx hGH at $10 per unit is hard to find, often the cost will be higher.

Thanks Im really not sure what my GH levels are maybe its in one of my old labs.. Im pretty sure the cost is $80 per bottle of HGH at the spa.. I'll ask what brand/other info they have on it before I try it. Would HGH promote a decrease in scar tissue or increaces it? I have alot of scar tissue in shoulder and need to break it up for 100% The doc wants to do a manipulation to break it up but Im fearful that could result in a new tear. Would HGH at 5iu EOD or ED be a good short cut to 100% recovery with the ability to skip manipulation? Should I consider uping my T past 100mg per week to promote healing?

Sir,
How would you adjust this protocol for subq?

Just inject SC/SQ instead of IM?

Subway? Your weekly dose for AI and hCG is not affected. With T EOD, your FT will be steady and then you want a steady matching amount of AI. My preference is to inject T and hCG at the same time and dose AI at the same time, just as a workable routine. This is in the stickies. hCG is also injected SC. SC avoids decades of IM muscle damage.

I have been on trt for many years using 250 hcg two days before and day before my 200mg of cypionate. I would like to switch to a lower dose and shoot every 3 days. My question is when would I take my hcg? and would i shoot every 3 days or pick two days during the week and stay with those days....I apologize if this has been answered I did look through some previous posts and was unable to find anything

Thanks everyone

hCG dose has nothing to do with T dose, when you are shutdown, that is all that matters. As for AI, you need a more when serum T levels are high. So the answer with this ester will depend on your lab results. With infrequent dosing, the T peaks and troughs make AI dosing impossible to get right.

Amazing thread!!! I have been on t for a while and my doctor never mentioned anything thing to me. It was get your shot and be done. I have found places online to purchase hCG and an AI but im wondering if it would be more cost effective to go to on of those anti aging places = (

Those places are where people go to get ripped off when they can't get help elsewhere. There are some exceptions. Many will over over-prescribe and most sell you the drugs at a high markup. You want to get scripts in-hand.

An enthusiastic GP is always your best bet. Not an endo or uro with an entitlement attitude whereby they do not need to learn anything new.

I'm reading that Adex lowers igf-1? any insight on this?


Product Effect on igf-1 percentage
Femara/Letrozole increases igf-1 24%
Arimidex/Amastrozole decreases igf-1 18%

For Ksman this wouldn't matter so much cause he is on hgh and had low igf-1 I'm wondering if this is the reason why igf-1 was low?

So is your data for women seeking E2-->0? If so what has that got to do with men seeking normal E2=22?

Are the stats that you list for pre or post menopausal women? Are the effects from the drug or from the the low estrogens. If premenopausal, are the effects from the pituitary reacting to low E2? Does low E2 alter pituitary functions and thus GH? Does low E2 alter the livers ability to release IGF-1 in response to GH?

Do you have data for males on TRT? Body builders seeking BF<10% and very low E2 are not acceptable.

[quote]iw84aces wrote:
[quote]KSman wrote:
So is your data for women seeking E2-->E2? If so what has that got to do with men seeking normal E2=22?

Are the stats that you list for pre or post menopausal women? Are the effects from the drug or from the the low estrogens. If premenopausal, are the effects from the pituitary reacting to low E2? Does low E2 alter pituitary functions and thus GH? Does low E2 alter the livers ability to release IGF-1 in response to GH?

Do you have data for males on TRT? Body builders seeking BF<10% and very low E2 are not acceptable.[/quote]



http://jcem.endojournals.org/.../85/7/2370.full

Here is one of them. Although they do say it lowers igf-1 it appears that didn't have an effect on GH levels which would be odd wouldn't it? I had another one that i was reading but I can't seem to find it.. I'll edit it in when i do...Do you really want me to answer those questions?
I don't have the answers that's why I'm here :)

I have seen research papers indicating that anastrozole increase IGF-1 levels. So there may be mixed signals. There is data that Nolvadex lowers IGF-1 and the bro-science guys may be confusing these.

GH-->IGF-1 via processes in the liver, so liver function can create the disconnect that you noted.

We know that TRT can improve GH levels. We know that E2 can lower T. We know that anastrozole can lower T and increase T. So there is a pattern there for the intact HPTA. Most guys here do not have an intact HPTA. Hard to make generalizations without proper context.

So with having a fatty liver and pancreas If one were to test IGF-1 is it possible that GH levels could still be low if the liver is not functioning optimally?