The Intelligent & Relentless Pursuit of Muscle™
T Replacement
 
Testosterone Tests Came Back
 

paulieserafini
Level

Join date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1491

this doctor visit was the most fustrating of them all.
he said my labs seem fine. total test, estradiol and cortisol even too.

he also said he wants to get my sperm count done before he makes a decision to do hcg or whatever that guy decides to do.

I've heard nothing about a sperm count the entire time reading about this stuff. What does this even matter. He says it will help him find out the cause.

crap.

thinking about saying screw insurance and this guy and going to revita anti-aging center in Charlotte nc

said it would cost me something roughly 300-400 bucks a month for the whole package labs, test, hcg, arimidex and they would mail my stuff to me monthly where ever i am. pretty sure they will be very down to treat me.

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paulieserafini
Level

Join date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1491

he kinda made me feel like im blowing my symptoms out of proportion. I'm kinda a big dude (bigger than average) maybe I don't need as much total testosterone as most people? or my e2 should be higher?

I dunno should i feel this way? man I am so lost.
I'd hate to make a mistake by finding a doctor ready to put me on and me realize i never needed it or something this is rough.

I mean with my test below range and my e2 at the top of the range there is no way i know what it feels like to be a normal human being right?

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wannabebig250
Level

Join date: Mar 2012
Posts: 769

ill try taking a stab at it since we have alot of similar numbers and symptoms.

i think the high cortisol is lowering your testosterone. its a known fact. do you store most of your fat around the lower abs? thats high cortisol. try some rhodiola.

your t3 and t4 look fine but your tsh is kind of high. this means your body wants more thyroid hormone than it is getting. high cortisol prevents thyroid hormone from getting into the cells. this would also cause your highish reverse t3 number. again, rhodiola will fix this.

your e2 is way too high. this would cause brain fog, lethargy, storing fat on your chest and thighs, and ED issues. it also lowers testosterone a ton. do you take any zinc? 30-60mg of zinc a day, everyday, forever is what i take. you can try some DIM and calcium d-glucarate too. if you want a really fast solution i suggest PES erase, its what i take. grape seed extract also inhibits aromatase.

do you get enough iodine and selenium? those are very important for thyroid.

try some tongkat ali and tribulus, which raise testosterone. see how you feel after a month.

we are the same age and i would never, never, NEVER go on trt at this age. there is no reason for our body to just stop producing testosteron for no reason. lets fix the underlying cause with nutrients and supplements, not put a trt bandaid over it.

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VTBalla34
Level 5

Join date: Mar 2009
Posts: 7536

Do not talk yourself out of treatment that is needed. I am on a crappy phone with even crappier internet service right now so I cant go back through your thread to recall your numbers, but do not ever let some moronic doctor convince you that "it is in your head" or that "its normal to feel shitty"...advocate for yourself and do what is necessary to improve your situation...

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paulieserafini
Level

Join date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1491

wannabebig250 wrote:
ill try taking a stab at it since we have alot of similar numbers and symptoms.

i think the high cortisol is lowering your testosterone. its a known fact. do you store most of your fat around the lower abs? thats high cortisol. try some rhodiola.

your t3 and t4 look fine but your tsh is kind of high. this means your body wants more thyroid hormone than it is getting. high cortisol prevents thyroid hormone from getting into the cells. this would also cause your highish reverse t3 number. again, rhodiola will fix this.

your e2 is way too high. this would cause brain fog, lethargy, storing fat on your chest and thighs, and ED issues. it also lowers testosterone a ton. do you take any zinc? 30-60mg of zinc a day, everyday, forever is what i take. you can try some DIM and calcium d-glucarate too. if you want a really fast solution i suggest PES erase, its what i take. grape seed extract also inhibits aromatase.

do you get enough iodine and selenium? those are very important for thyroid.

try some tongkat ali and tribulus, which raise testosterone. see how you feel after a month.

we are the same age and i would never, never, NEVER go on trt at this age. there is no reason for our body to just stop producing testosteron for no reason. lets fix the underlying cause with nutrients and supplements, not put a trt bandaid over it.



Can you recieve private messages?

i have a month til my next appointment so i guess it cant hurt to try a more conservative route with supplementation.

rhodiola - do you have any good reccomendations or will any brand work? I'd hate to buy something that doesn't absorb well.

for the zinc. i could just pick up any ole ZMA supplement right?

PES erase looks pretty tough, i've always had a fear of taking anything hormonal are you aware of any bad reactions to this. I am very open to trying this.

tongkat ali and tribulus - do you have any good reccomendations for these or should i just do a big brand like 10$ ON bottles (should i wait to get something that blocks estrogen first since i may already have an aromatase issue and this may slighly raise testosterone?)

the only supplement i currently take is animal pak. but i only take 1 pack a day instead of two so i only get half of what is on the label

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wannabebig250
Level

Join date: Mar 2012
Posts: 769

paulieserafini wrote:
wannabebig250 wrote:
ill try taking a stab at it since we have alot of similar numbers and symptoms.

i think the high cortisol is lowering your testosterone. its a known fact. do you store most of your fat around the lower abs? thats high cortisol. try some rhodiola.

your t3 and t4 look fine but your tsh is kind of high. this means your body wants more thyroid hormone than it is getting. high cortisol prevents thyroid hormone from getting into the cells. this would also cause your highish reverse t3 number. again, rhodiola will fix this.

your e2 is way too high. this would cause brain fog, lethargy, storing fat on your chest and thighs, and ED issues. it also lowers testosterone a ton. do you take any zinc? 30-60mg of zinc a day, everyday, forever is what i take. you can try some DIM and calcium d-glucarate too. if you want a really fast solution i suggest PES erase, its what i take. grape seed extract also inhibits aromatase.

do you get enough iodine and selenium? those are very important for thyroid.

try some tongkat ali and tribulus, which raise testosterone. see how you feel after a month.

we are the same age and i would never, never, NEVER go on trt at this age. there is no reason for our body to just stop producing testosteron for no reason. lets fix the underlying cause with nutrients and supplements, not put a trt bandaid over it.



Can you recieve private messages?

i have a month til my next appointment so i guess it cant hurt to try a more conservative route with supplementation.

rhodiola - do you have any good reccomendations or will any brand work? I'd hate to buy something that doesn't absorb well.

for the zinc. i could just pick up any ole ZMA supplement right?

PES erase looks pretty tough, i've always had a fear of taking anything hormonal are you aware of any bad reactions to this. I am very open to trying this.

tongkat ali and tribulus - do you have any good reccomendations for these or should i just do a big brand like 10$ ON bottles (should i wait to get something that blocks estrogen first since i may already have an aromatase issue and this may slighly raise testosterone?)

the only supplement i currently take is animal pak. but i only take 1 pack a day instead of two so i only get half of what is on the label


no, my PMs never send or receive.

for rhodiola im currently using NOW foods brand, its good stuff. but ive used swanon brand and it was good as well. as long as the total rosavins is 12.5-15mg per pill youre good. Biotest makes a real high quality one ive yet to try.

you could pick up ZMA if you can get it for cheap. i actually buy cheap zinc citrate and magnesium citrate separate and i can get them both for under $15 and they last 2 months.

ive never experienced or seen bad reactions on forums from erase. its a pretty legit supplement. it can look scary when you look at the ingredient but really its just a metabolite of DHEA. if youre unsure if you want to take it, patrick arnold recommends grape seed extract (95% OPC) at 400mg for estrogen. im trying it in a week when my erase runs out.

for tribulus ive used NOW foods brand for a while and it was really good stuff. i could feel it hit me 15 mins after i took it on the way to the gym. swanson makes a decent one too. as long as its minimum 40% saponins youre good.

for tongkat ive been using swanson brand for a long time. the 400mg root powder pills. ive tried the 100:1 extract from source naturals and didnt notice a difference between the two.

hope that helps. also if you have trouble falling asleep from high cortisol, i take ashwagandha and it knocks me right out.

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paulieserafini
Level

Join date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1491

wannabebig250 wrote:
paulieserafini wrote:
wannabebig250 wrote:
ill try taking a stab at it since we have alot of similar numbers and symptoms.

i think the high cortisol is lowering your testosterone. its a known fact. do you store most of your fat around the lower abs? thats high cortisol. try some rhodiola.

your t3 and t4 look fine but your tsh is kind of high. this means your body wants more thyroid hormone than it is getting. high cortisol prevents thyroid hormone from getting into the cells. this would also cause your highish reverse t3 number. again, rhodiola will fix this.

your e2 is way too high. this would cause brain fog, lethargy, storing fat on your chest and thighs, and ED issues. it also lowers testosterone a ton. do you take any zinc? 30-60mg of zinc a day, everyday, forever is what i take. you can try some DIM and calcium d-glucarate too. if you want a really fast solution i suggest PES erase, its what i take. grape seed extract also inhibits aromatase.

do you get enough iodine and selenium? those are very important for thyroid.

try some tongkat ali and tribulus, which raise testosterone. see how you feel after a month.

we are the same age and i would never, never, NEVER go on trt at this age. there is no reason for our body to just stop producing testosteron for no reason. lets fix the underlying cause with nutrients and supplements, not put a trt bandaid over it.



Can you recieve private messages?

i have a month til my next appointment so i guess it cant hurt to try a more conservative route with supplementation.

rhodiola - do you have any good reccomendations or will any brand work? I'd hate to buy something that doesn't absorb well.

for the zinc. i could just pick up any ole ZMA supplement right?

PES erase looks pretty tough, i've always had a fear of taking anything hormonal are you aware of any bad reactions to this. I am very open to trying this.

tongkat ali and tribulus - do you have any good reccomendations for these or should i just do a big brand like 10$ ON bottles (should i wait to get something that blocks estrogen first since i may already have an aromatase issue and this may slighly raise testosterone?)

the only supplement i currently take is animal pak. but i only take 1 pack a day instead of two so i only get half of what is on the label


no, my PMs never send or receive.

for rhodiola im currently using NOW foods brand, its good stuff. but ive used swanon brand and it was good as well. as long as the total rosavins is 12.5-15mg per pill youre good. Biotest makes a real high quality one ive yet to try.

you could pick up ZMA if you can get it for cheap. i actually buy cheap zinc citrate and magnesium citrate separate and i can get them both for under $15 and they last 2 months.

ive never experienced or seen bad reactions on forums from erase. its a pretty legit supplement. it can look scary when you look at the ingredient but really its just a metabolite of DHEA. if youre unsure if you want to take it, patrick arnold recommends grape seed extract (95% OPC) at 400mg for estrogen. im trying it in a week when my erase runs out.

for tribulus ive used NOW foods brand for a while and it was really good stuff. i could feel it hit me 15 mins after i took it on the way to the gym. swanson makes a decent one too. as long as its minimum 40% saponins youre good.

for tongkat ive been using swanson brand for a long time. the 400mg root powder pills. ive tried the 100:1 extract from source naturals and didnt notice a difference between the two.

hope that helps. also if you have trouble falling asleep from high cortisol, i take ashwagandha and it knocks me right out.



do you get labs done between the erase or taking any of these supplements to see if your levels have gotten better?

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wannabebig250
Level

Join date: Mar 2012
Posts: 769

paulieserafini wrote:
wannabebig250 wrote:
paulieserafini wrote:
wannabebig250 wrote:
ill try taking a stab at it since we have alot of similar numbers and symptoms.

i think the high cortisol is lowering your testosterone. its a known fact. do you store most of your fat around the lower abs? thats high cortisol. try some rhodiola.

your t3 and t4 look fine but your tsh is kind of high. this means your body wants more thyroid hormone than it is getting. high cortisol prevents thyroid hormone from getting into the cells. this would also cause your highish reverse t3 number. again, rhodiola will fix this.

your e2 is way too high. this would cause brain fog, lethargy, storing fat on your chest and thighs, and ED issues. it also lowers testosterone a ton. do you take any zinc? 30-60mg of zinc a day, everyday, forever is what i take. you can try some DIM and calcium d-glucarate too. if you want a really fast solution i suggest PES erase, its what i take. grape seed extract also inhibits aromatase.

do you get enough iodine and selenium? those are very important for thyroid.

try some tongkat ali and tribulus, which raise testosterone. see how you feel after a month.

we are the same age and i would never, never, NEVER go on trt at this age. there is no reason for our body to just stop producing testosteron for no reason. lets fix the underlying cause with nutrients and supplements, not put a trt bandaid over it.



Can you recieve private messages?

i have a month til my next appointment so i guess it cant hurt to try a more conservative route with supplementation.

rhodiola - do you have any good reccomendations or will any brand work? I'd hate to buy something that doesn't absorb well.

for the zinc. i could just pick up any ole ZMA supplement right?

PES erase looks pretty tough, i've always had a fear of taking anything hormonal are you aware of any bad reactions to this. I am very open to trying this.

tongkat ali and tribulus - do you have any good reccomendations for these or should i just do a big brand like 10$ ON bottles (should i wait to get something that blocks estrogen first since i may already have an aromatase issue and this may slighly raise testosterone?)

the only supplement i currently take is animal pak. but i only take 1 pack a day instead of two so i only get half of what is on the label


no, my PMs never send or receive.

for rhodiola im currently using NOW foods brand, its good stuff. but ive used swanon brand and it was good as well. as long as the total rosavins is 12.5-15mg per pill youre good. Biotest makes a real high quality one ive yet to try.

you could pick up ZMA if you can get it for cheap. i actually buy cheap zinc citrate and magnesium citrate separate and i can get them both for under $15 and they last 2 months.

ive never experienced or seen bad reactions on forums from erase. its a pretty legit supplement. it can look scary when you look at the ingredient but really its just a metabolite of DHEA. if youre unsure if you want to take it, patrick arnold recommends grape seed extract (95% OPC) at 400mg for estrogen. im trying it in a week when my erase runs out.

for tribulus ive used NOW foods brand for a while and it was really good stuff. i could feel it hit me 15 mins after i took it on the way to the gym. swanson makes a decent one too. as long as its minimum 40% saponins youre good.

for tongkat ive been using swanson brand for a long time. the 400mg root powder pills. ive tried the 100:1 extract from source naturals and didnt notice a difference between the two.

hope that helps. also if you have trouble falling asleep from high cortisol, i take ashwagandha and it knocks me right out.



do you get labs done between the erase or taking any of these supplements to see if your levels have gotten better?


no ive only got 2 tests that were 1 year apart. my testosterone jumped from 429 to 651 by implementing tribulus, tongkat and a few other things for a year. in my case there was long term effects. i can imagine my T finally getting into the 800s once i bring my cortisol and estrogen down.

i can tell visually when my estrogen is too high because i retain water and add fat to my chest without a change in calories. i also have trouble getting and keeping a pump when my estrogen is high.

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paulieserafini
Level

Join date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1491

wannabebig250 wrote:
paulieserafini wrote:
wannabebig250 wrote:
paulieserafini wrote:
wannabebig250 wrote:
ill try taking a stab at it since we have alot of similar numbers and symptoms.

i think the high cortisol is lowering your testosterone. its a known fact. do you store most of your fat around the lower abs? thats high cortisol. try some rhodiola.

your t3 and t4 look fine but your tsh is kind of high. this means your body wants more thyroid hormone than it is getting. high cortisol prevents thyroid hormone from getting into the cells. this would also cause your highish reverse t3 number. again, rhodiola will fix this.

your e2 is way too high. this would cause brain fog, lethargy, storing fat on your chest and thighs, and ED issues. it also lowers testosterone a ton. do you take any zinc? 30-60mg of zinc a day, everyday, forever is what i take. you can try some DIM and calcium d-glucarate too. if you want a really fast solution i suggest PES erase, its what i take. grape seed extract also inhibits aromatase.

do you get enough iodine and selenium? those are very important for thyroid.

try some tongkat ali and tribulus, which raise testosterone. see how you feel after a month.

we are the same age and i would never, never, NEVER go on trt at this age. there is no reason for our body to just stop producing testosteron for no reason. lets fix the underlying cause with nutrients and supplements, not put a trt bandaid over it.



Can you recieve private messages?

i have a month til my next appointment so i guess it cant hurt to try a more conservative route with supplementation.

rhodiola - do you have any good reccomendations or will any brand work? I'd hate to buy something that doesn't absorb well.

for the zinc. i could just pick up any ole ZMA supplement right?

PES erase looks pretty tough, i've always had a fear of taking anything hormonal are you aware of any bad reactions to this. I am very open to trying this.

tongkat ali and tribulus - do you have any good reccomendations for these or should i just do a big brand like 10$ ON bottles (should i wait to get something that blocks estrogen first since i may already have an aromatase issue and this may slighly raise testosterone?)

the only supplement i currently take is animal pak. but i only take 1 pack a day instead of two so i only get half of what is on the label


no, my PMs never send or receive.

for rhodiola im currently using NOW foods brand, its good stuff. but ive used swanon brand and it was good as well. as long as the total rosavins is 12.5-15mg per pill youre good. Biotest makes a real high quality one ive yet to try.

you could pick up ZMA if you can get it for cheap. i actually buy cheap zinc citrate and magnesium citrate separate and i can get them both for under $15 and they last 2 months.

ive never experienced or seen bad reactions on forums from erase. its a pretty legit supplement. it can look scary when you look at the ingredient but really its just a metabolite of DHEA. if youre unsure if you want to take it, patrick arnold recommends grape seed extract (95% OPC) at 400mg for estrogen. im trying it in a week when my erase runs out.

for tribulus ive used NOW foods brand for a while and it was really good stuff. i could feel it hit me 15 mins after i took it on the way to the gym. swanson makes a decent one too. as long as its minimum 40% saponins youre good.

for tongkat ive been using swanson brand for a long time. the 400mg root powder pills. ive tried the 100:1 extract from source naturals and didnt notice a difference between the two.

hope that helps. also if you have trouble falling asleep from high cortisol, i take ashwagandha and it knocks me right out.



do you get labs done between the erase or taking any of these supplements to see if your levels have gotten better?


no ive only got 2 tests that were 1 year apart. my testosterone jumped from 429 to 651 by implementing tribulus, tongkat and a few other things for a year. in my case there was long term effects. i can imagine my T finally getting into the 800s once i bring my cortisol and estrogen down.

i can tell visually when my estrogen is too high because i retain water and add fat to my chest without a change in calories. i also have trouble getting and keeping a pump when my estrogen is high.



oh cool, so did you ever cycle these supplements?

obviously the pes erase needs cycling but the others? or do you take the trib and stuff year around?

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wannabebig250
Level

Join date: Mar 2012
Posts: 769

paulieserafini wrote:
wannabebig250 wrote:
paulieserafini wrote:
wannabebig250 wrote:
paulieserafini wrote:
wannabebig250 wrote:
ill try taking a stab at it since we have alot of similar numbers and symptoms.

i think the high cortisol is lowering your testosterone. its a known fact. do you store most of your fat around the lower abs? thats high cortisol. try some rhodiola.

your t3 and t4 look fine but your tsh is kind of high. this means your body wants more thyroid hormone than it is getting. high cortisol prevents thyroid hormone from getting into the cells. this would also cause your highish reverse t3 number. again, rhodiola will fix this.

your e2 is way too high. this would cause brain fog, lethargy, storing fat on your chest and thighs, and ED issues. it also lowers testosterone a ton. do you take any zinc? 30-60mg of zinc a day, everyday, forever is what i take. you can try some DIM and calcium d-glucarate too. if you want a really fast solution i suggest PES erase, its what i take. grape seed extract also inhibits aromatase.

do you get enough iodine and selenium? those are very important for thyroid.

try some tongkat ali and tribulus, which raise testosterone. see how you feel after a month.

we are the same age and i would never, never, NEVER go on trt at this age. there is no reason for our body to just stop producing testosteron for no reason. lets fix the underlying cause with nutrients and supplements, not put a trt bandaid over it.



Can you recieve private messages?

i have a month til my next appointment so i guess it cant hurt to try a more conservative route with supplementation.

rhodiola - do you have any good reccomendations or will any brand work? I'd hate to buy something that doesn't absorb well.

for the zinc. i could just pick up any ole ZMA supplement right?

PES erase looks pretty tough, i've always had a fear of taking anything hormonal are you aware of any bad reactions to this. I am very open to trying this.

tongkat ali and tribulus - do you have any good reccomendations for these or should i just do a big brand like 10$ ON bottles (should i wait to get something that blocks estrogen first since i may already have an aromatase issue and this may slighly raise testosterone?)

the only supplement i currently take is animal pak. but i only take 1 pack a day instead of two so i only get half of what is on the label


no, my PMs never send or receive.

for rhodiola im currently using NOW foods brand, its good stuff. but ive used swanon brand and it was good as well. as long as the total rosavins is 12.5-15mg per pill youre good. Biotest makes a real high quality one ive yet to try.

you could pick up ZMA if you can get it for cheap. i actually buy cheap zinc citrate and magnesium citrate separate and i can get them both for under $15 and they last 2 months.

ive never experienced or seen bad reactions on forums from erase. its a pretty legit supplement. it can look scary when you look at the ingredient but really its just a metabolite of DHEA. if youre unsure if you want to take it, patrick arnold recommends grape seed extract (95% OPC) at 400mg for estrogen. im trying it in a week when my erase runs out.

for tribulus ive used NOW foods brand for a while and it was really good stuff. i could feel it hit me 15 mins after i took it on the way to the gym. swanson makes a decent one too. as long as its minimum 40% saponins youre good.

for tongkat ive been using swanson brand for a long time. the 400mg root powder pills. ive tried the 100:1 extract from source naturals and didnt notice a difference between the two.

hope that helps. also if you have trouble falling asleep from high cortisol, i take ashwagandha and it knocks me right out.



do you get labs done between the erase or taking any of these supplements to see if your levels have gotten better?


no ive only got 2 tests that were 1 year apart. my testosterone jumped from 429 to 651 by implementing tribulus, tongkat and a few other things for a year. in my case there was long term effects. i can imagine my T finally getting into the 800s once i bring my cortisol and estrogen down.

i can tell visually when my estrogen is too high because i retain water and add fat to my chest without a change in calories. i also have trouble getting and keeping a pump when my estrogen is high.



oh cool, so did you ever cycle these supplements?

obviously the pes erase needs cycling but the others? or do you take the trib and stuff year around?


i always cycled trib and tongkat 5 days on 2 days off, for months at a time. i havent taken anything in 3 months though.

the pes erase is 8 weeks on 4 weeks off.

i honestly bet if you took trib, tongkat and erase, within a month youll feel like a new man. if you add some nettle root and mucuna pruriens youll never even think of TRT and will go the herbal root forever.

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paulieserafini
Level

Join date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1491

wannabebig250 wrote:
paulieserafini wrote:
wannabebig250 wrote:
paulieserafini wrote:
wannabebig250 wrote:
paulieserafini wrote:
wannabebig250 wrote:
ill try taking a stab at it since we have alot of similar numbers and symptoms.

i think the high cortisol is lowering your testosterone. its a known fact. do you store most of your fat around the lower abs? thats high cortisol. try some rhodiola.

your t3 and t4 look fine but your tsh is kind of high. this means your body wants more thyroid hormone than it is getting. high cortisol prevents thyroid hormone from getting into the cells. this would also cause your highish reverse t3 number. again, rhodiola will fix this.

your e2 is way too high. this would cause brain fog, lethargy, storing fat on your chest and thighs, and ED issues. it also lowers testosterone a ton. do you take any zinc? 30-60mg of zinc a day, everyday, forever is what i take. you can try some DIM and calcium d-glucarate too. if you want a really fast solution i suggest PES erase, its what i take. grape seed extract also inhibits aromatase.

do you get enough iodine and selenium? those are very important for thyroid.

try some tongkat ali and tribulus, which raise testosterone. see how you feel after a month.

we are the same age and i would never, never, NEVER go on trt at this age. there is no reason for our body to just stop producing testosteron for no reason. lets fix the underlying cause with nutrients and supplements, not put a trt bandaid over it.



Can you recieve private messages?

i have a month til my next appointment so i guess it cant hurt to try a more conservative route with supplementation.

rhodiola - do you have any good reccomendations or will any brand work? I'd hate to buy something that doesn't absorb well.

for the zinc. i could just pick up any ole ZMA supplement right?

PES erase looks pretty tough, i've always had a fear of taking anything hormonal are you aware of any bad reactions to this. I am very open to trying this.

tongkat ali and tribulus - do you have any good reccomendations for these or should i just do a big brand like 10$ ON bottles (should i wait to get something that blocks estrogen first since i may already have an aromatase issue and this may slighly raise testosterone?)

the only supplement i currently take is animal pak. but i only take 1 pack a day instead of two so i only get half of what is on the label


no, my PMs never send or receive.

for rhodiola im currently using NOW foods brand, its good stuff. but ive used swanon brand and it was good as well. as long as the total rosavins is 12.5-15mg per pill youre good. Biotest makes a real high quality one ive yet to try.

you could pick up ZMA if you can get it for cheap. i actually buy cheap zinc citrate and magnesium citrate separate and i can get them both for under $15 and they last 2 months.

ive never experienced or seen bad reactions on forums from erase. its a pretty legit supplement. it can look scary when you look at the ingredient but really its just a metabolite of DHEA. if youre unsure if you want to take it, patrick arnold recommends grape seed extract (95% OPC) at 400mg for estrogen. im trying it in a week when my erase runs out.

for tribulus ive used NOW foods brand for a while and it was really good stuff. i could feel it hit me 15 mins after i took it on the way to the gym. swanson makes a decent one too. as long as its minimum 40% saponins youre good.

for tongkat ive been using swanson brand for a long time. the 400mg root powder pills. ive tried the 100:1 extract from source naturals and didnt notice a difference between the two.

hope that helps. also if you have trouble falling asleep from high cortisol, i take ashwagandha and it knocks me right out.



do you get labs done between the erase or taking any of these supplements to see if your levels have gotten better?


no ive only got 2 tests that were 1 year apart. my testosterone jumped from 429 to 651 by implementing tribulus, tongkat and a few other things for a year. in my case there was long term effects. i can imagine my T finally getting into the 800s once i bring my cortisol and estrogen down.

i can tell visually when my estrogen is too high because i retain water and add fat to my chest without a change in calories. i also have trouble getting and keeping a pump when my estrogen is high.



oh cool, so did you ever cycle these supplements?

obviously the pes erase needs cycling but the others? or do you take the trib and stuff year around?


i always cycled trib and tongkat 5 days on 2 days off, for months at a time. i havent taken anything in 3 months though.

the pes erase is 8 weeks on 4 weeks off.

i honestly bet if you took trib, tongkat and erase, within a month youll feel like a new man. if you add some nettle root and mucuna pruriens youll never even think of TRT and will go the herbal root forever.



lol i have so many questions to ask you i'll probably ask them in the supplement thread i made though since that seems more appropriate i think.

actually do you have an e-mail address or facebook or something you wouldn't mind that i could talk to you through?

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wannabebig250
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paulieserafini wrote:
wannabebig250 wrote:
paulieserafini wrote:
wannabebig250 wrote:
paulieserafini wrote:
wannabebig250 wrote:
paulieserafini wrote:
wannabebig250 wrote:
ill try taking a stab at it since we have alot of similar numbers and symptoms.

i think the high cortisol is lowering your testosterone. its a known fact. do you store most of your fat around the lower abs? thats high cortisol. try some rhodiola.

your t3 and t4 look fine but your tsh is kind of high. this means your body wants more thyroid hormone than it is getting. high cortisol prevents thyroid hormone from getting into the cells. this would also cause your highish reverse t3 number. again, rhodiola will fix this.

your e2 is way too high. this would cause brain fog, lethargy, storing fat on your chest and thighs, and ED issues. it also lowers testosterone a ton. do you take any zinc? 30-60mg of zinc a day, everyday, forever is what i take. you can try some DIM and calcium d-glucarate too. if you want a really fast solution i suggest PES erase, its what i take. grape seed extract also inhibits aromatase.

do you get enough iodine and selenium? those are very important for thyroid.

try some tongkat ali and tribulus, which raise testosterone. see how you feel after a month.

we are the same age and i would never, never, NEVER go on trt at this age. there is no reason for our body to just stop producing testosteron for no reason. lets fix the underlying cause with nutrients and supplements, not put a trt bandaid over it.



Can you recieve private messages?

i have a month til my next appointment so i guess it cant hurt to try a more conservative route with supplementation.

rhodiola - do you have any good reccomendations or will any brand work? I'd hate to buy something that doesn't absorb well.

for the zinc. i could just pick up any ole ZMA supplement right?

PES erase looks pretty tough, i've always had a fear of taking anything hormonal are you aware of any bad reactions to this. I am very open to trying this.

tongkat ali and tribulus - do you have any good reccomendations for these or should i just do a big brand like 10$ ON bottles (should i wait to get something that blocks estrogen first since i may already have an aromatase issue and this may slighly raise testosterone?)

the only supplement i currently take is animal pak. but i only take 1 pack a day instead of two so i only get half of what is on the label


no, my PMs never send or receive.

for rhodiola im currently using NOW foods brand, its good stuff. but ive used swanon brand and it was good as well. as long as the total rosavins is 12.5-15mg per pill youre good. Biotest makes a real high quality one ive yet to try.

you could pick up ZMA if you can get it for cheap. i actually buy cheap zinc citrate and magnesium citrate separate and i can get them both for under $15 and they last 2 months.

ive never experienced or seen bad reactions on forums from erase. its a pretty legit supplement. it can look scary when you look at the ingredient but really its just a metabolite of DHEA. if youre unsure if you want to take it, patrick arnold recommends grape seed extract (95% OPC) at 400mg for estrogen. im trying it in a week when my erase runs out.

for tribulus ive used NOW foods brand for a while and it was really good stuff. i could feel it hit me 15 mins after i took it on the way to the gym. swanson makes a decent one too. as long as its minimum 40% saponins youre good.

for tongkat ive been using swanson brand for a long time. the 400mg root powder pills. ive tried the 100:1 extract from source naturals and didnt notice a difference between the two.

hope that helps. also if you have trouble falling asleep from high cortisol, i take ashwagandha and it knocks me right out.



do you get labs done between the erase or taking any of these supplements to see if your levels have gotten better?


no ive only got 2 tests that were 1 year apart. my testosterone jumped from 429 to 651 by implementing tribulus, tongkat and a few other things for a year. in my case there was long term effects. i can imagine my T finally getting into the 800s once i bring my cortisol and estrogen down.

i can tell visually when my estrogen is too high because i retain water and add fat to my chest without a change in calories. i also have trouble getting and keeping a pump when my estrogen is high.



oh cool, so did you ever cycle these supplements?

obviously the pes erase needs cycling but the others? or do you take the trib and stuff year around?


i always cycled trib and tongkat 5 days on 2 days off, for months at a time. i havent taken anything in 3 months though.

the pes erase is 8 weeks on 4 weeks off.

i honestly bet if you took trib, tongkat and erase, within a month youll feel like a new man. if you add some nettle root and mucuna pruriens youll never even think of TRT and will go the herbal root forever.



lol i have so many questions to ask you i'll probably ask them in the supplement thread i made though since that seems more appropriate i think.

actually do you have an e-mail address or facebook or something you wouldn't mind that i could talk to you through?


if you prefer email we could, but i think that theres so many guys out there with the same questions as you that if we discussed it in the supplement thread it would help out so many other people too. its up to you though.

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paulieserafini
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whats to stop E2 from going back up after a cycle of pes erase?

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wannabebig250
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paulieserafini wrote:
whats to stop E2 from going back up after a cycle of pes erase?


ive spoken to the PES reps on another forum about that and their reasoning is this. they say that erase is a suicide aromatase inhibitor, so it kills off the enzymes that are responsible for converting testosterone into estrogen. by taking the erase for 8 weeks it completely kills them off and essentially your body is producing no estrogen. so the 4 weeks that you take off between cycles your body is just trying to create new enzymes from scratch so that you can produce estrogen again. by the time it does that the 4 weeks are over and youre back on your next 8 week cycle.

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wannabebig250
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not sure if you ordered PES erase yet, but ive been doing a ton of research on grape seed extract and decided to use it as my aromatase inhibitor of choice. safer and cheaper than erase. i get 400mg of it in my custom test booster.


Grape seed extract is an aromatase inhibitor and a suppressor of aromatase expression.
Kijima I, Phung S, Hur G, Kwok SL, Chen S.
Source
Department of Surgical Research, Beckman Research Institute of the City of Hope, Duarte, California, USA.
Abstract
Aromatase is the enzyme that converts androgen to estrogen. It is expressed at higher levels in breast cancer tissues than normal breast tissues. Grape seed extract (GSE) contains high levels of procyanidin dimers that have been shown in our laboratory to be potent inhibitors of aromatase. In this study, GSE was found to inhibit aromatase activity in a dose-dependent manner and reduce androgen-dependent tumor growth in an aromatase-transfected MCF-7 (MCF-7aro) breast cancer xenograft model, agreeing with our previous findings. We have also examined the effect of GSE on aromatase expression. Reverse transcription-PCR experiments showed that treatment with 60 mug/mL of GSE suppressed the levels of exon I.3-, exon PII-, and exon I.6-containing aromatase mRNAs in MCF-7 and SK-BR-3 cells. The levels of exon I.1-containing mRNA, however, did not change with GSE treatment. Transient transfection experiments with luciferase-aromatase promoter I.3/II or I.4 reporter vectors showed the suppression of the promoter activity in a dose-dependent manner. The GSE treatment also led to the down-regulation of two transcription factors, cyclic AMP-responsive element binding protein-1 (CREB-1) and glucocorticoid receptor (GR). CREB-1 and GR are known to up-regulate aromatase gene expression through promoters I.3/II and I.4, respectively. We believe that these results are exciting in that they show GSE to be potentially useful in the prevention/treatment of hormone-dependent breast cancer through the inhibition of aromatase activity as well as its expression.

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paulieserafini
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i was pretty convinced that i wanted to do pes erase, but since this is more conservative im going to look into it some more thank your wannabebig

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wannabebig250
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paulieserafini wrote:
i was pretty convinced that i wanted to do pes erase, but since this is more conservative im going to look into it some more thank your wannabebig


no problem man, let me know how it works out for you.

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paulieserafini
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got a 24 urine cortisol test that came back in the low 130s and the endo said normal would have been like 50.



i just got out of the army.
and i just moved out of my apartment where me and all my roommates hated eachother.
hopefully this lowers my stress. but there has to be something else going on to make my cortisol 2.5 times higher than it should be.


40-50% of my cals come from carbs, blueberries, strawberries, apples, bannanas, white rice, broccoli. and only 20% from fats. So should i lower the carbs and increase the fats. would this help?

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aliaZ
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I don't understand why docs are so hesitant to perform testing. I can understand why they wouldn't want to prescribe medications they think they might get in trouble for, but testing I wouldn't think would be a big deal. I couldn't get my doc to test for E2....I had to do it out of pocket. Pretty irritating.....

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JackNeedsHelp
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paulieserafini wrote:
got a 24 urine cortisol test that came back in the low 130s and the endo said normal would have been like 50.



i just got out of the army.
and i just moved out of my apartment where me and all my roommates hated eachother.
hopefully this lowers my stress. but there has to be something else going on to make my cortisol 2.5 times higher than it should be.


40-50% of my cals come from carbs, blueberries, strawberries, apples, bannanas, white rice, broccoli. and only 20% from fats. So should i lower the carbs and increase the fats. would this help?

20% from fats? shocking. Ofcourse it would help.

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paulieserafini
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Does anyone think it would be completely asinine for me to do a typical beginner 8-10 week cycle of test, with AI and Nolva pct.

What I mean is, what are the chances I would mess myself up even more.

the pct would kinda be like doing a restart aswell right? (I know this question kinda sounds dumb)

,oh not that I have plans to do this in the near future I would just like to know if it's worth taking the time to research and plan.

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KSman
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It is a crap shoot. Some will recover, others have brittle HPTA's.

You missed: "Do you get enough iodine and selenium? those are very important for thyroid."
Using iodized salt?

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paulieserafini
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KSman wrote:
It is a crap shoot. Some will recover, others have brittle HPTA's.

You missed: "Do you get enough iodine and selenium? those are very important for thyroid."
Using iodized salt?



no idea if i get enough selenium.

I use to use idonized salt in huge quantities when I first found out about this, I use it maybe once or twice a day now.

Honestly even though my numbers are low I wonder if anything is really wrong with me. I lost 35lbs from feb til now, retained nearly all of my muscle. I'm bigger than the average person. and I don't know if this has anything to do with the weightloss but, my depression and irritability seem to not be nearly as bad as it use to be.

I mean my test is low but other than getting sleepy in the afternoons I don't even think i have symptoms of low test. In the morning i want to fuck anything and everything. i mean my sex drive is non existent at night.

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paulieserafini
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I've pretty much given up I've been to 4 doctors and they all have turned me away

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KSman
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Your FSH and low T suggests that you have secondary hypogonadism. If you did a SERM challenge with nolvadex and FSH/LH and T increased, that would confirm and demonstrate that your testes work.

You are very estrogen dominant and until the reasons are found, you would do well taking 0.5mg anastrozole in EOD divided doses. Pills do not split well that way. Some make solutions with vodka and dispense with a dropper bottle.

E2 can be elevated from liver problems. One of you AST/ALT markers was high.

Some drugs, OTC and Rx [list these], as well as grapefruit reduce the liver's ability to clear estrogens. Other than that, there can be medical issues.

You have unexplained weight loss?
Ever get rashes?

Thyroid problems can lower T and make you unwell. We are trying to learn about your iodine intake and body temperatures, thyroid labs etc.

This is a problem: "TSH SENSITIVE...... 2.810 (0.27-4.2) mcIU/mL "
Please post your waking and mid afternoon oral body temperatures.

If we cannot fix a thyroid problem, you will need to:
-attempt an HPTA restart with active E2 management during and long term after
-start TRT with active E2 management during and long term after

Are you getting exposed to chemicals or fumes? This can alter liver function.

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