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Slightly High e2 - Help with DIM
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sphinxbrah
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Join date: May 2013
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Posts: 21

Hi all,

I have slightly high e2.

My labs came back at 132 pmol/L (ref range 40 - 160). I am in Canada so perhaps the Americans on this forum would be more familiar with the converted figure of 36. I have read that the sweet sport for young, physically active and in shape males is usually in the 20s.

A slightly high reading would not be an issue for me if it was not for symptoms. I have not had morning wood for years despite being only 23. I never get spontaneous erections. I still have some sex drive but it is not anywhere near what I would consider high.

When I was in high school I would get morning wood and spontaneous erections everyday without fail and was extremely horny. My erections were also harder back then.

I carry almost all of my fat on my buttox, hips, and hamstrings so this is another thing leading me to suspect my e2 might be a tad higher than my ideal spot.

I do not have puffy nipples fortunately. Energy, mood, etc is fine. I exercise daily.

As my e2 is still within range - although not ideal - I would like to attempt some natural approaches to lower it and see if that works.

I am currently taking 50mg of zinc per day. I now awake with a semi but never an actual erection as in high-school.

My questions:

- Could DIM help?
- If so, how much per day should I start with? And should I increase if not results after X amount of time?
- What would be some good DIMs to purchase?
- It is my impression this can be had over the counter, correct?
- Has anyone had success with DIM in the past?

Cheers!

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iw84aces
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Join date: Mar 2013
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Posts: 883

Do you have any signs of high E2?
Dim could help.
Do you have any labs to post? Liver? Ast,alt I'm willing to bet these are elevated. You need to reAd the stickies

Do some searching around other threads, these things are discussed

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sphinxbrah
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Join date: May 2013
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Posts: 21

iw84aces wrote:
Do you have any signs of high E2?
Dim could help.
Do you have any labs to post? Liver? Ast,alt I'm willing to bet these are elevated. You need to reAd the stickies

Do some searching around other threads, these things are discussed


Symptoms: e2 came back as high-normal in my last lab (36); no morning wood in years; no spontaneous erections in years; low libido (but not non-existent); weaker erections (I'd rate them 7/10 whereas in high-school they were off the charts hard 11/10); quite lean but any and all fat I store is in my hips/buttox/hamstrings; this fat is very stubborn; sweat buckets even when it is not hot outside (though perhaps I am just sweaty naturally?)

DIM: I have read that you need to take fiber (30g/day or more) with DIM. Otherwise, the DIM will cleave the estrogen from storage sites but have no way of removing it from the body, therefore recirculating and restoring it in system. Moreover, the type of fiber used must be flaxseed, cheaseed, or phylium husk. I have further read that DIM should never be taken alone as it can increase homocysteine levels - TMG (Trimethylglycine)is recommended to balance out the homocysteine created by DIM.

Is there any truth to the above? I read it on forums so it is all anecdotal.... but I have also read success stories of men having their morning wood return by taking DIM in isolation.

Labs: I do not have them with me but will post them in the coming days! I do not have liver labs but do have other numbers(TT, FT, e2, FSH, LH, SHBG, etc). I will ask for liver markers at the next meeting with my endo (August 24). Hopefully he is willing to test. I am in Canada so getting blood work can be a real challenge / you cannot order it independently.

Stickies: I have performed ctrl+f on all of them (searching for "liver") nothing pertinent comes up.

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iw84aces
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Join date: Mar 2013
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Posts: 883

I am Canadian also. I have no problems getting blood work. You have to know what your saying and basically beat the doctor from his bullshit.. When I want labs I tell them what I want and why.

Where abouts in canada are you?

I do not use DIM. Like anything else what works for one person doesn't work for all. I think Tunapancake may use it if you can get him to chime in maybe he would be of more help.

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sphinxbrah
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Join date: May 2013
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Posts: 21

iw84aces wrote:
I am Canadian also. I have no problems getting blood work. You have to know what your saying and basically beat the doctor from his bullshit.. When I want labs I tell them what I want and why.

Where abouts in canada are you?

I do not use DIM. Like anything else what works for one person doesn't work for all. I think Tunapancake may use it if you can get him to chime in maybe he would be of more help.


I am in Ottawa.

Is using DIM fine? Or should I hold off on taking anything - over the counter or not - for fear of tainting any future blood work?

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sphinxbrah
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Join date: May 2013
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Posts: 21

Sorry, forgot to add my labs to my last post. My labs are below.

I really think it must be my e2 that is resulting in the lack of morning wood... but that is just a gut feeling. I have no idea what else it could be as everything else looks decent to me. Maybe not picture-perfect lab ranges but enough that I'd at least experience morning erections at times :S

I thought I might be sleeping through my nocturnal erections at first but no longer see that as likely. Not every night for 3 years straight. I *never* wake up with an erection in the morning. This is independent of whether I wake up to an alarm for work at 6AM or 7AM or naturally with no alarm on weekends (any time from 8 AM to 11: AM). Nor do I have an erection whenever I get up to pee at random times of the night in the early AM.

I only got a referral to an endo in May which is why the last two tests are more thorough. Before that I was relying on my GP who was very reluctant to run tests.

May 28 2013 Test Results

- Prolactin: 9 ug/L (ref range 3 - 13)
- LH: 3 IU/L (ref range 1-9)
- FSH: 2 IU/L (ref range 1-19)
- Total testosterone 21.4 nmol/L (ref range 6.1 - 27.1)
- Free testosterone: 450 pmol/L (ref range 110 - 660)
- Bioavailable testosterone: 10.5 nmol/ L (ref range 2.8 - 15.5)
- SHBG: 35 nmol/L (ref range 13 - 89)
- Estradiol: 123 pmol/L (33.5 in American units)(ref range 40 - 160) (ref range 10.90 - 43.58 in American units)

May 1 2013 Test Results

- DHEAS: 8.8 umol/L (ref range 2.3 - 18.7)
- Prolactin: 11 ug/L (ref range 3 - 13)
- LH: 3 IU/L (ref range 1-9)
- FSH: 2 IU/L (ref range 1-19)
- TSH: 1.88 mU/L (ref range 0.3 - 5.6)
- Total testosterone 18.8 nmol/L (ref range 6.1 - 27.1)
- Free testosterone: 333 pmol/L (ref range 110 - 660)
- Bioavailable testosterone: 7.8 nmol/ L (ref range 2.8 - 15.5)
- SHBG: 44 nmol/L (ref range 13 - 89)
- Estradiol: 132 pmol/L (36 in American units) (ref range 40 - 160) (ref range 10.90 - 43.58 in American units)

January 19 2013 Test Results

- TSH: 1.38 mIU/L (ref range 0.35 - 5)
- LH: 6 IU/L (ref range 2-9)
- FSH: 2 IU/L (ref range 2-12)
- Free Testosterone: 37.4 pmol/L (ref range 31 - 94)

January 12 2013 Test Results

- TSH: 1.38 mIU/L (ref range 0.35 - 5)
- Total Testosterone: 22.3 nmol/L (ref range 7.6 - 31.4)
- Free Testosterone: 46.6 pmol/L (ref range 31 - 94)

June 2012 Test Results

- Free Testosterone: 42.8 pmol/L (ref range 31 - 94)

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iw84aces
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Join date: Mar 2013
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Posts: 883

Your labs look great. Need to test liver enzymes ast,alt

Prolactin is raising. I would keep an eye on this.

Did you get anymore labs?

I don't use dim, some things your going to have to deside on your own and do research

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sphinxbrah
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Join date: May 2013
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Posts: 21

iw84aces wrote:
Your labs look great. Need to test liver enzymes ast,alt

Prolactin is raising. I would keep an eye on this.

Did you get anymore labs?

I don't use dim, some things your going to have to deside on your own and do research


Agreed. Everything looks pretty nice to me which is why I don't understand my lack of morning wood. The one thing I have identified as potentially being off is the e2 and prolactin. Even these are not extremely or overly high.... but unlike the other hormones, they also are over what most men have as their "sweet spot" and where symptoms might start to arise if the individual is supposed to be lower e.g. low-mid 20s for e2. If this isn't the cause of my lack of morning wood I will be genuinely stumped. I have read that elevated e2 can raise prolactin as well so I think one might be causing the other.

I can still get erections and have libido but both are significantly lower than in high school at age 18. At only age 23 I feel the decline, if any at this point, should not be this large. Given my total lack of morning wood and spontaneous erections I want to be proactive and ensure nothing is wrong hormonoally.

There are the only labs I have. My next appointment with the endo is August 24. I will then push for the liver enzymes. From my research it seems I should ask for the following: ALP, AST, ALT, GGT. Anything else?

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iw84aces
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Join date: Mar 2013
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Posts: 883

So many things play a part in this and I'm not a pro or a doc.

I would test the adrenals, stress is a big factor in labido.

ACTH
C-peptide
Insulin
Morning cortisol. Should be done at 8 am
Igf-1 if considering hgh therapy but doc my think your looking for hgh so maybe not?

CBC

Lipids

Thyroid- tsh, ft3, ft4.. This is a start

Retest prolactin

Do a fasting glucose test

A1c

Hav you ever thought of seeing a naturopath or homeopath? If so get a 4 point cortisol test depending on what morning cortisol shows.

Why are you currently seeing an endo? For morning wood?

How do you sleep? Do you wake up frequently? Do you dream? Do you feel refreshed when you wake?

Do you eat properly?

Has anything major happened in you life that may have messed you up. Exp death of a loved one,loss of a job, stress from school, broke up with girlfriend? What if anything and did this happen around the same time you started having issues?

List any other symptoms you have

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sphinxbrah
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Join date: May 2013
Location:
Posts: 21

iw84aces wrote:
So many things play a part in this and I'm not a pro or a doc.

I would test the adrenals, stress is a big factor in labido.

ACTH
C-peptide
Insulin
Morning cortisol. Should be done at 8 am
Igf-1 if considering hgh therapy but doc my think your looking for hgh so maybe not?


I am sure it is not stress. I am a university student but am currently on summer break and do not have a job or even a care in the world until September. My days consist of going to the gym, hanging out with friends, and relaxing around the house. I am as happy as a dude could be (and quite thankful for it!).

Are the above all related to stress? I can ask for them to be tested anyway in the interest of being thorough but again am quite sure stress is not the problem.

CBC

Lipids

Thyroid- tsh, ft3, ft4.. This is a start

Retest prolactin


Will do

Do a fasting glucose test

A1c


I had both of these tested as I suspect immediately perhaps asymptomatic diabetes was to blame as I do have a cousin with diabetes. Both came back great.

Hav you ever thought of seeing a naturopath or homeopath? If so get a 4 point cortisol test depending on what morning cortisol shows.

Why are you currently seeing an endo? For morning wood?

How do you sleep? Do you wake up frequently? Do you dream? Do you feel refreshed when you wake?

Do you eat properly?

Has anything major happened in you life that may have messed you up. Exp death of a loved one,loss of a job, stress from school, broke up with girlfriend? What if anything and did this happen around the same time you started having issues?

List any other symptoms you have


I will research naturopaths and homeopaths and see if this is something I should pursue. I am indeed seeing an endo purely because of my lack of morning wood. I thought this was likely horomonal and that as a result an endo would be the best fit.

I sleep very well. Like a log. Never wake up unless it is to pee (which I never used to do when I was getting morning wood in high school. I am assuming because the erection kept the urge to urinate somewhat at bay). I do dream sometimes. Most nights I do not (or at least I cannot remember them) but I'd hardly say dreams are unusual. I do feel refreshed upon waking. I do not - nor have I ever - felt the need to use coffee/caffeine to give me an extra push in the morning.

I eat excellent. I am a bodybuilder so I track my diet carefully. About 2700 calories a day split 40 (protein)/20 (carbs) /20 (fat) in terms of macro nutrients %s. All clean and healthy foods.

Again, nothing major has happened in my life that would cause stress or mess me up. No relationship or love life problems. No troubles at work. No family troubles.


Symptoms: no morning wood; no spontaneous erections; notably weaker erections and lower libido than a few years ago (though for both they are still not "awful" or anything)

Possible other symptoms (unsure if this stuff could just be the way I am naturally?): I sweat a lot and this includes in my sleep; I store what little fat I have on my buttox/hips/hamstrings and this fat is rather stubborn

Other than the above I in fact feel extremely healthy and am in excellent shape. Indeed, I overall feel strong, youthful, and energetic. My lack of morning wood just happened slowly over time I guess. I never even noticed it was gone and assumed it was natural to not have it outside of one's teen years until I read otherwise some time ago.

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iw84aces
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Join date: Mar 2013
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Great that you are having the time of you life.

No the above are not just stress related.



You don't have to check anything I advise I'm just throwing some at ya that are major players in the body that's all..

Peace man good luck

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sphinxbrah
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Join date: May 2013
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Posts: 21

iw84aces wrote:
Great that you are having the time of you life.

No the above are not just stress related.



You don't have to check anything I advise I'm just throwing some at ya that are major players in the body that's all..

Peace man good luck


Thanks.

I'll keep this thread updated with what I decided to do re: DIM etc and also with any future blood work. If nothing else for the sake of information. Who knows how many other men are out there lurking and dealing with the same issues.

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iw84aces
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Join date: Mar 2013
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Do you watch a lot of porn?www.yourbrainonporn.com

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sphinxbrah
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Join date: May 2013
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Posts: 21

iw84aces wrote:
Do you watch a lot of porn?www.yourbrainonporn.com


I watch porn regularly but not what I would deem excessively. My viewing is what I would classify as healthy and normal for a young male. I do not watch it daily and certainly watch it no more than any other guy my age.... likely less as I have lower libido than I used to.

I have research porn related ED etc and I do not think this is me. I am still functional and when I was getting morning erections regularly and had my strongest erections I masterbated a lot more than I do now.

Moreover, there have been periods when I have been "off" porn for extended periods of time as well - e.g. travelling for a month - and this did not bring about morning wood.

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