Building High-Performance Muscle™
T Replacement
 
On TRT, Experiencing Low Libido and ED
 

KSman
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Join date: Aug 2006
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Posts: 7297

Your LH is lowish now and that can affect the physical structure of the testes. hCG will get them to a state of what they would be doing with a normal level of LH. Then when the SERM replaces hCG with LH and you taper off of the SERM, you are giving the system a start with the both ends in a running state. The mid point labs are a steering point.

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Jdeck
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Join date: Aug 2012
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Posts: 40

Ok, I ran the HCG for 3 weeks now and I feel like my testes are fine at this point. I have some Nolva and I have a few questions before I start. What useful information would I get out of blood results at this point after using the HCG and not the Nolva? After using HCG alone, should my T be in the normal range if my lowT is secondary? or if it is primary would my T still be low while replacing LH with the HCG?

I really wanna start this Nolva and start to feeling better right away, just not sure if a blood test at this point is really gonna be useful and what would be expected after doing the HCG portion of the restart attempt..

What would be the best Nolva restart dose.

I've read 40Mg day for two weeks then 20mg for two weeks.. Is that right?

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KSman
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Join date: Aug 2006
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With the hCG, how do you feel, what did you notice. If hCG has provided good T levels, then the testes are working fine and you had secondary hypogonadism. If otherwise you are primary. Many have a combination.

You can switch to Nolvadex, then LH/FSH should be up. T production depends on hCG response, activating the same receptors. Test for LH/FSH. If not up, you are not going to restart to a healthy level. Otherwise, the top and bottom ends of your HPTA are working.

After a few weeks, taper off of the Nolvadex slowly.

You landed here started on TRT, so we did not ask for diagnostic info. Please provide info from the "Advice for New Guys" sticky. And do not skip the iodine, temperature thyroid issues!

Post complete labs. We also need cholesterol results.

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bmxer109
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Join date: Aug 2012
Location: Washington, USA
Posts: 13

Uhm, yeah. Arimidex KILLS sex drive... Even if E2 is put into better balance.

I've read some articles about its ability to disrupt cortisol to some extent as well. Gotta remember that it was originally developed as a chemotherapy drug, and is heavy stuff. Its likely that it has other enzyme-interferring properties beyond that of aromatase..

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KSman
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The clinical data that you will find is for women taking 1mg/day to kill E2 levels. Most of that is not applicable to E2 modulation in males.

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Jdeck
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Join date: Aug 2012
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Posts: 40

I have my labs after taking 3 weeks of HCG before starting the Nolvadex

TT=341 (348-1197) <- This is up 100 points from 235 on oct 23rd
FT=10 (8.7-25.1)
E2=15.3
LH=2.6
FSH= didn't get
(being on HCG I think LH and FSH would be low anyway)

Any chance with these numbers from HCG alone that my testicles are normal enough to get my T inside the normal range, or does this prove I have primary hypogonadism?

Im running Nolvadex right now 40/40/20/20 then going for more labs. fingers are crossed

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Jdeck
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Join date: Aug 2012
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anybody have comments on the labs? I was expecting to be in the midrange TT, guess I was wishful thinking.

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KSman
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Join date: Aug 2006
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Maybe. I would give things more time.

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CTPE
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Join date: Jan 2013
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Posts: 7

Any update on this?

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Jdeck
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Join date: Aug 2012
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Posts: 40

Yes, I have great news.. After running the HCG and Nolvadex My T has returned to normal numbers. I think maybe stress had caused my T to drop in the first place, because I had gone through a couple years of horrible failed marriage to a crazy woman. What some have referred to as a lazy HPTA system is probably what I had experienced.

My LH was on the low side and not calling for the higher T numbers, so I guess I wasn't primary hypogonadal. There is hope for some guys to use this restart regiment to jumpstart their natural production and I would recommend any guy to try this before going on TRT for the rest of their life. My blood test was about 2 weeks after finishing the nolvadex cycle and the numbers are below.

Hopefully my system will maintain these numbers and not dwindle back down over time.

TT=670
FT=19
E2=23
LH=9

Is there any longterm natural supplements or meds that will keep LH numbers higher if your HPTA system is lazy? Thyroid meds, etc?

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Jdeck
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Join date: Aug 2012
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Also my libido and normal erections are back, which is why I started this thread in the first place. Im back to normal in the bedroom and my girlfriend is a happy camper. Thank God! :)

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Over40
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Join date: Aug 2003
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Posts: 378

Jdeck wrote:
KSman,
Thanks for all your contributions to this site. Does it matter that I was on HCG before I quit the T injections? When I quit the T a month ago, I crashed for about a week then I started feeling better. Im kinda thinking Im back to normal production at this point since my LH and FSH are in the midrange. Thats why Im wondering if my testes are just weak and wont get any better.

Shouldn't my Testes be functioning as normal as they can since I was on HCG during TRT and they didn't shrink? I have a script for HCG and can take that now, but is Nolvadex something I need a script for?

My biggest concern is going back on T for a lifetime if there is any chance my test will get higher naturally. I do have low-T sysmptoms, mainly lack of energy and brain fog, which sucks.



Hey man, 51, been on TRT for 3 plus years. As was mentioned when you were on, using ADEX at .5 EOD would literally kill my libido and sex drive. If you go back on, leave the Adex out or cut it down to like .25 E5D or .125 E3d. It is a bit of trail and error. I only use it now if I add other compounds, like Prop or dbol. Good luck to you.

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THEBUS1988
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Join date: Jan 2013
Location: California, USA
Posts: 9

Hello,

Im 25 years old and went on TRT about 8 months ago and started with 250mg/ml weekly and eventually bumped it up to 375 during the last 3 months. My t levels were in normal range but just wanted to get them higher and see what benefits it would have. I noticed my libido had lowered after 3 or 4 months and eventually it was really hard for me to get an erection. I was given anastrozole but never took it since I feared it might cause ED. I eventually decided to get off of TRT and about a week after I noticed my erections had gone back to normal. After reading some threads I noticed some people having luck with this certain issue by implementing HCG. Is this a common "cure" for this or is there anything else that can be done? is this a common problem for people on TRT?

I definitely would like to get back on so any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.

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Kaynon311
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Join date: Nov 2012
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Posts: 329

THEBUS,

Start a new thread and post your info on it. You don't want to hijack someone else's log. Read through the "stickies" at the top of the page (advice for new guys, blood testing) and fill out your log accordingly. There are many questions that you need to answer before anyone can give you advice.

Why are you on TRT? Why is the dose so high? Why did you not take the anastrozole? 375mg/week is borderline T cycle. Common cure for...erections? hCG keeps the testes functioning when on TRT because your HPTA is suppressed while on TRT and you will get testicular atrophy. Those are just a couple of questions that need to be answered.

Start your own thread.

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Jdeck
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Join date: Aug 2012
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Posts: 40

My ED has been cured at least in the short term by supping Iodine,DHEA, and Pregnenolone. Its been just about 2weeks so the jury is still out but I was bad off with libido and erections leaving a lot to be desired. Taking those supplements has turned me around almost overnight. I could tell a difference after the first day.

Im going for bw in about 3 weeks and maybe my T is going to be higher. I'd never had my Thyroid, T3, Cortisol, checked so I'm kinda blindly supping things that hopefully will boost all my hormones.

Since my T is low but my LH is normal, is like there is a missing link somewhere in there. LowT should raise my LH. I'll be interested to see if adrenal fatigue or iodine deficiency may be the cause of the Low T.

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Jdeck
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Join date: Aug 2012
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Posts: 40

New Labs are in.. My T is still low and everything else is in range.

all labcorp and I'll post the ranges when I get copies of the paperwork

TT= 227 (348-1197) low
FT=9.6 (8.7-25.1) borderline low
E2=7.1 (7.6-42.6) low
TSH=2.13 (.45-4.5)
FSH=5.2 (1.5-12.4)
LH=2.5 (1.7-8.6)
T4=8.6 (4.5-12.0)
FT4=1.49 (.82-1.77)
T3=123 (71-180)
FT3=? (I asked for this test but they didn't do it)
RT3=22.4 (9.2-24.1)
DHEA-S=189 (31-701)
Cortisol=54 (0-50) high
Progesterone=0.6 (.2-1.4)
Pregnenolone=81


I'm very disappointed my iodine reload, Pregnenolone and DHEA supplementation didn't affect my T numbers at all. It would seem like my testicles are just not able to perform well anymore. I have done all the testing and home remedies I can do, so going back on the TRT probably forever. I had hoped I could find the cause and treat it.

On the bright side I have felt better, and fixed the ED with the Preg, DHEA and Iodine replacement

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Jdeck
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Join date: Aug 2012
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Posts: 40

I have restarted TRT, I guess for life. I have been back on T-Cyp at 100MG week for a month or so and I was hoping for a sex drive boost but nothing yet. I do feel better and my muscles are harder, more energy, but my erections are not so great though and morning wood is non-existant, and last few days my left testicle is killing me. I started HCG hoping it will help with the pain.

I have one question.. Being 38 and of normal overall health and having sex regularly(I do almost daily) should I still expect nighttime or morning wood?

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iw84aces
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Join date: Mar 2013
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Rt3 Is at the high end of range if our units are the same

Tsh is on the high side. Find out ft3 results so u can do the calculations. Ft3 is important in interpreting this situation.

Sorry things didn't work out as planned :(

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Jdeck
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Join date: Aug 2012
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Posts: 40

I updated the test results with ranges and a couple that were missing, but unfortunately they didn't do the FT3 test. grrrrr

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iw84aces
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Join date: Mar 2013
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I think you may be able to do it with T3 but don't know the calculation. Go to

Stop the thyroid madness and search t3 rt3 calculation

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