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T Replacement
 
New on TRT, Nebido Anyone?
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miniarnold
Level

Join date: Jan 2008
Posts: 119

Hello,
I have low T am 30,
recently started t replacement with nebido it is my first form of trt as i didnt want to try the gels as i hate the idea of daily application, so i am on nebido (test undeconate) had my first inj beginning of november, a booster mid december and now inj are every 12 weeks with my next being mid march.

Would like to hear peoples experience on nebido, how they were before treatment symptoms etc and bad effects on the body from low t, and after having been on nebido, any benefits how they feel now, how long its taken to notice benefits/improvements to feel better, any improvements in body comp and workouts energy strength etc.
Also any side effects from this treatment
?

Any input or shared experiences would be good,
Cheers.

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pcdude
Level

Join date: Jun 2010
Posts: 629

It's still testosterone, just with a longer half-life. Injecting every 12 weeks will induce the usual highs/lows and difficulty in controlling E2 as with any other form of test injection not taken on a more-frequent-than-recommended-by-the-manufacutrer basis.

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PureChance
Level

Join date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1547

hmmmm....

a simple web search says that nebido = half life of 17 days. Is that correct?

so you inject at levels at 1200 on day one and are at 600 by day 17 (if you're extremely lucky)

so what are your levels on day 84 (right before your next injection)?

besides the longer half life is there any difference between T-Cyp and T-Undec? If not, one would expect the experiences to be about the same - with all of the recommendations and suggestions in the stickies to still be valid.

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miniarnold
Level

Join date: Jan 2008
Posts: 119

I receive the inj every 12 weeks from mid december which was my booster inj, this is the treatment i am on for trt as i choose not to use the gels, dont quite follow what you mean about half life of nebido, all the literature i have read about it says the 1000ml shot is supposed to be a very slow release very long esther and keeps levels stable until the nxt 12 week injection.
So far after 1st inj then a booster 6 wks later in mid december (nxt inj is now mid march), havnt really noticed much effect really certainly nothing significant and really noticeble from the treatment yet but i hope the best is yet to come with furthur injections.

my last blood test 2 weeks after my 2nd inj in december showed my shbg still at 44, and my total T had gone up 10 points to 18.6nmol (range 9-40 my area in the UK, as it differs around the country!), do not now my free T of this figure and do not know my estrogen as its not practice to test for it, i only get trt and no hcg with treatment the endos over here in uk are really quite clueless with TRT.
around 6 weeks ago which was about 5 wks after my very first dose of nebido (my first form of trt), i had a bad spell of water retention on my torso and abdoment that lasted a little longer than a week then cleared up, and again at present also approx 6wks after my december inj the water retention is seeming to come back again like previous. I would be interested to get my estrogen levels checked on my nxt bloods but thats asking alot over here.

So anyone used or know anyone on TRT who is on nebido, any reports improvements side effects anyhting to share etc?

Cheers.

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KSman
Level 1

Join date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8356

Molar mass of testosterone undecylate is 456.70032
Molar mass of testosterone is 288.42

If you inject inject 1000mg [4ml], it will yield 1000mg x 288.42/456.7 = 631.5 mg testosterone. A young virile male produces around 10mg testosterone per day, which would be 912.5 mg ever 3 months. On that measure, you are getting 69% of that, but in a highly non-linear fashion.

With changing T levels, E2 management with anastrozole is not very workable. But in the UK, getting E2 testing and management might be very difficult.

Your bloat might be from elevated E2.

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miniarnold
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Join date: Jan 2008
Posts: 119

So with the nebido im getting approx 69% over 12 weeks, of what a normal healthy male should have over a 12 week period

I think its pretty doubtful i would get any drugsto combat excessive rises in estrogen and its going to be a battle just to get estrogen tested by my doc, when i mentioned water retention many weeks ago he just dissmissed it and said it cant be odema and wouldnt take my word for it.
Like i say trt here in the uk is backwards and were not in the best hands, no standard protocols for hcg or anti-estrogens only testosterone.
If i have any problems whatever it is i will have to wait to see my proff of endo mid april and have to put up with my uneducated doc in the meantime,anything i dont like or benefits i dont feel in the meantime nothing will be done, so far im dissapointed from TRT and its lack of effect.

Anyone around here on nebido who i could relate to and share there experience?

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PureChance
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Join date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1547

KSman wrote:
you are getting 69% of that, but in a highly non-linear fashion.


miniarnold wrote:
So with the nebido im getting approx 69% over 12 weeks, of what a normal healthy male should have over a 12 week period

Anyone around here on nebido who i could relate to and share there experience?


I believe that he said is that the average would be 69%. so for example that could mean something like a few weeks at 150% and several weeks towards the end at 10%. Yeah the average is 69% of normal, but going that high and then coming down that low can't be healthy, can it?

and sorry, but it doesn't seem like anyone here as ever used nebido before (at least I haven't seen anyone else ever post about it).

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miniarnold
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Join date: Jan 2008
Posts: 119

Ok thanks,
its also called testosterone undecanoate,a slow release of T levels supposidly lasting 12 weeks i gather its attached to alot of esthers to make it slow releasing, as i am in the uk in may not be prescribed in alot of countrys but its certainly in europe. Shame nobody here as seemed to use it for their trt.

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VTBalla34
Level 5

Join date: Mar 2009
Posts: 7536

miniarnold wrote:
Shame nobody here as seemed to use it for their trt.


Not really...it sounds like bunk...half life is only ~16 days yet they are convincing doctors that somehow this magically stabilizes blood levels for up to 16 weeks!!!!! Just shows you how corrupt and ignorant the medical community is, IMO....

From what I can tell from a quick search, some company had a T-Unecadoate product up for FDA approval under the name of Aveed, but it was denied about a year ago...maybe our government is capable of doing something right....

Though a 16 day half life would provide pretty stable values if injected more frequently, its not much better than Test E and Test Cyp (half life of ~12 days) if at all

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KSman
Level 1

Join date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8356

When self injecting T frequently, as we suggest, T levels are steady and there is no need for long ester testosterone products. Run of the mill T cyp or T eth work well.

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splif
Level

Join date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1

miniarnold wrote:
Hello,
I have low T am 30,
recently started t replacement with nebido it is my first form of trt as i didnt want to try the gels as i hate the idea of daily application, so i am on nebido (test undeconate) had my first inj beginning of november, a booster mid december and now inj are every 12 weeks with my next being mid march.

Would like to hear peoples experience on nebido, how they were before treatment symptoms etc and bad effects on the body from low t, and after having been on nebido, any benefits how they feel now, how long its taken to notice benefits/improvements to feel better, any improvements in body comp and workouts energy strength etc.
Also any side effects from this treatment
?

Any input or shared experiences would be good,
Cheers.


Let's bump up the thread.

It's been over a year, are you still on nebido? I just started my first trt with nebido on february and had the booster inj last week, 3rd one is in 8 weeks. Just wanted to ask how are your levels and are you happy with the treatment?

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athlifit
Level 1

Join date: Jun 2007
Posts: 16

Hi there.
I was placed on nebido 1000mg/4ml about 12 weeks ago, having had my second (booster) dose 6 weeks ago. . next injection due 12 weeks from booster dose.
Since my first injection, i noticed a marked rise in my sex dribe and muscularity. Ok, I have trained with weights since I was 18yrs old (56 yrs now) but nevertheless a number of people have over the course of the last 3 weeks or so, commented on my physical appearance with remarks such as; "you've beefed up recently"
Anyway, I think Nebido (like any other drug) will manifest its actions differently on different individuals but in my case. . . . . . long may these effects continue!

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mrgarrison
Level

Join date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2

Hey, I just ended to this topic.

I just wanted to share some information considering my TRT with nebido with some lab results, whether it helps or not... :-)

in August 2010 I had ended to the point where I felt weak and tired all the time, and sex drive which was quite big some years ago, was very much lost. I was.. 26 at the time. So I visited the doc, we took some tests and it all led to discovering that my testosterone-values were quite low-end. Especially for a guy on my age. So doctor first recommended that if I wanted to we could try testosterone treatment with some initial tests for the cause of the low-t (which revealed that my situation will be permanent for natural low levels, lets just say it's testicle related).

I also weighted 68kg at 178cm at the time, and I'm a man. He prescribed me testo-gel and said that if all goes well with it, then I may have a chance to go for nebido in December 2010. My levels at this point before any treatment were (now I apologize if you don't use same "units"): S-Testo - 12nmol/l (min 10 - max 38), S-TestoVL 227pmol/l (min 200 - max 580) and S-SHBG

(19nmol/l (min 13 - max 71). Considering S-TestoVL, I think the VL part translates into (Free, Calculated))

After using the testo-gel for some months tests were taken in 29.10.2010 and came out as following: S-Testo 21, S-TestoVL 442, S-SHBG 13. I got the green light to start Nebido after I had used the remaining gel. It was prescribed to be taken between every 8 to 10 weeks (instead of the regular 12 week interval).

If I recall right, I got initial shot of Nebido 1000mg and then 4 or 5 weeks another booster shot, after which I got to take anew every 8 to 10 weeks. I started getting sex drive up quite fast, lost most of my anxiety and generally felt quite much more energized very soon. In the first year I felt so much better that I bought some dumbbells and barbell to home and started working out (like a rookie). I gained weight from 68 to 74 during the first year.

From 74 to 77 during the second. But it took me quite a while to get myself into the gym, where I have been training a full year 3x a week (full body workout now). Me I never liked the gym before, because I felt so anxious and low on energy, but after Nebido I've found new energy and enjoy the gym now! Just need to learn to get better and work out harder. Now I weight about 80kg even, and I know that ain't much, but I feel so much better and healthier already than on 68kg.

I know that perhaps some people may bash me for going for steroids/TRT before really working out before, but I'd like to say that my situation to get testosterone-treatment wasn't gym related in the first place. I went to doc because I generally felt weak, tired, and my sex drive was really lacking for a guy at 26's. But getting my mood and all better has influenced me starting gym as a hobby, though it took a while. I hit the gym first time (for real) only at last year August 2012 (working out home prior to that), while my TRT treatment had started in late 2010.

Only problem lately has been slightly elevated B-HKR (hematocrit-value), which has risen from 49-50 to 52 in early this year (I was in for some blood-test for different reasons at April). My doc says that everything is ok if HKR stays at 53 maximum, but over that there is a problem.

Now I'd like to share my lab results how Nebido has increased my testosterone-levels over the years since the beginning:

-Interval between the shots: 8 to 10 weeks (usually I've been taking shots at 8 weeks, though last year sometimes at 9th or 10th week)
-lab results taken at 4th week (which means they should describe the "high point" of the levels at each period between the shots)
-I have not used any other form of roids combined with Nebido similarly

S-Testo (nmol/l) min 10 - max 38:
12 (10.08.2010) *natural levels
21 (29.10.2010) *on testo-gel
23 (8.3.2011) *finally on Nebido
16 (6.6.2011) *exceptionally results taken on 8th week right before a new shot, to see how low values sink!
28 (19.10.2011)
33 (30.11.2012)

S-TestoVL (pmol/l) min 200 - max 580:
227 (10.08.2010) *natural levels
442 (29.10.2010) *on testo-gel
443 (8.3.2011) *finally on Nebido
304 (6.6.2011) *exceptionally results taken on 8th week right before a new shot, to see how low values sink!
479 (19.10.2011)
670 (30.11.2012) *my doc said that this isn't too high value for to be "high point" of one interval, but stated that I could now start taking the shots at 9 or 10 weeks interval

S-SHBG (nmol/l) min 13 - max 71:
19 (10.08.2010) *natural levels
13 (29.10.2010) *on testo-gel
18 (8.3.2011) *finally on Nebido
19 (6.6.2011) *exceptionally results taken on 8th week right before a new shot, to see how low values sink!
26 (19.10.2011)
15 (30.11.2012)

Now I'm about to take new blood tests for this year within two to three months, and I can update them here if I remember. I hope that these lab tests may provide some value for some readers. Though, they only present the varying interval of shots between 8 to 10 weeks...

Side-effects:
I can't think anything really bad. I used to be overly calm person. I do get mad little easier sometimes but I wouldn't really say it's rage beyond anything normal. But I see a slight change here. Perhaps very slight acne on shoulders, but nothing really big enough to bother. I recommend taking the shot split in two shot to both of the glutes (½ each) as at least for me it reduced pain (it wasn't that big anyway, but still).

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KSman
Level 1

Join date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8356

mrg: This belongs in your own thread, not here. We can respond to your labs etc there.

Please read the advice for new guys sticky.

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mrgarrison
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Join date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2

Oh?

I just wanted to reply to the original topic creator's post:

"Would like to hear peoples experience on nebido, how they were before treatment symptoms etc and bad effects on the body from low t, and after having been on nebido, any benefits how they feel now, how long its taken to notice benefits/improvements to feel better, any improvements in body comp and workouts energy strength etc.
Also any side effects from this treatment
?

Any input or shared experiences would be good,
Cheers."

I thought my post did directly reply to his question, as I shared my own experience with Nebido, Isn't that what the OP asked for?

I wasn't really seeking any advice to my own lab results per se, but rather wanted to provide my own input for the original poster (OP).

Well, if moderator feels my post does not belong to this topic of the initial poster then he may well delete it.

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tdr
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Join date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2

Hi all,

Thanks for sharing your experiences with Nebido - I found this forum and thread on the subject through a google search, as I've just been told by my Endocrinologist that he's writing to my GP to start me on it.

It's good to see so much information and experiences with it along with blood results over time (thanks very much for sharing those mrgarrison!) - I hope the mods don't mind me adding to this thread as a result as I think it can be a useful resource for people on Nebido.

I was referred to Endo for suspect Hypothyroidism and low T originally - both were confirmed by him and he chose to address the Thyroid (Hashimotos / auto-immune Thyroiditis) side of things first. I'm now on T4 and a little T3 for that but that's really an aside here - my Androgen profile following tests by my GP before Endo referral, back in July:

Oestradiol: 103 pmol/L
Testosterone MS: 11.8 nmol/L
SHBG: 23 nmol/L
Calculated Free Testosterone: 278 pmol/L
Prostate Specific Antigen: 2.92 ng/mL

Then some confirmation tests by the Endo at the start of August:

Testosterone: 10.7 nmol/L (range 8.6 - 29)
Sex hormone binding globulin: 27 nmol/L (range 14.5 - 48.4)
LH: 3.8 U/L (Males 1.7 - 8.6)
FSH: 3.0 U/L (Males 1.5 - 12.4)
Prolactin: 299 mU/L (Males 86 - 324)

What are people's thoughts on these readings? I'm starting to get a little apprehensive now it's hammer time as far as actually improving T levels goes! The experiences above give me hope that Nebido should help.

My background on seeking medical help after realising something wasn't quite right:

I had previously been to my GP because I was struggling to lose weight despite lots of exercise, initially training for an endurance open water Swim event - I went through months of food diaries and weigh-ins with the practice nurse before she eventually referred me back to the GP for further investigation as in her eyes I should have been easily losing weight. I asked my GP to then do the specific bloods relative to Thyroid and also got him to check my Androgen levels based on my own research of what could be causing my difficulties. They tried to pass off the results as 'normal' but when I checked the print outs, found my total Testosterone level of 11.8nmol/L and 278pmol/L free Testosterone were scraping the bottom of the ranges - a range that includes many 80+ year old men. I'm 33 years old and should be in my prime in that regard.

Fitness wise, my waking resting heart rate is typically still mid 40's and I can happily train into the 190's. As I stated to my Endocrine specialist, I'm not sure how much of that low resting heart rate is my fitness and how much of it is Hypothyroidism - he seemed to think it was mostly down to my fitness after commenting himself on my 'weak pulse' when he checked it manually.

My exercise regime before starting on Thyroid meds was Swimming a mile 3x times per week and cycling an average of 12 miles 2x times per week - all during the working week, plus messing around Swimming / flumes with my 3 year old Son one of the days at the weekends. I ended up with lots of aches and pains when I started on Levothyroxine so quickly ditched the Cycling and had to lessen the Swimming regime too. I'm still typically managing 2 to 3 times a week and will do a faster 1/2 mile plus some sprinting at the end of each session. I tell myself that's enough to keep me in good shape other than still being a good bit overweight at 18st 8lbs.

I know this forum is more about lifting, which something I hope to get back to after enjoying it previously - I ended up concentrating on Swimming following a Motorbike accident which saw me break my collarbone and smash up my left hip and right knee, the recovery saw me gain weight through lack of activity so I needed something non-impact and relatively gentle. So I went back to Swimming, after being a competitive Swimmer as a kid and into my teenage years, and my goal was to heal and get back some decent fitness such that I could do an endurance event.

When I started lifting weights a few years before my accident, I tracked my progress doing bench presses on the Smiths machine and managed to go from 30KG's (struggling) to 107.5KG's (3x reps max) on it. I know that's like nothing compared to most of you guys on here but I was pleased with my progress at the time having come from no exercise at all for years with a career in IT - the only thing I was taking was Protein shakes and BCAA's. I'd love to go back and see what I could now achieve with a decent T level!

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bankside
Level

Join date: Oct 2012
Posts: 6

I'm on Nebido, every 3 months aprox. I think its pretty good, I have been on several other injections, Sustanon 250, Testosterone Enantate, Test-comp 250. And in terms of mood, libido, general health, I have found Nebido the best because even though its seems like less mathematically speaking, I think it feels more consistent (perhaps because its such a gradual incline/decline, instead of up/down every 2 weeks).. another benefit is your much less likely to forget injections.. takes less time. But I dunno, in terms of muscle building, I think its fine, but then I never had problems with any of the above mentioned.

I have heard of other people saying its hard toward the end of a cycle.. but if you say that to the doctor maybe they'll shorten the cycle by a day.. or 5.

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