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Kaynon311
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Ned,

my PM isn't working either, apparently. Try sending me one and I'll respond.

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KSman
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Are you asking if normal guys should be castrated so they can get accurate thyroid labs? -NOT

Both T and thyroid levels need to be normalized as otherwise each can pull the other down.

Without iodine replenishment, you would see what the problem was. But your body temperature tells that story. Some will fix an iodine deficiency and if temperatures normalize and they feel better that is the end of the story. We know that fT4 is low and TSH up, so you need to decide what to do.

In my own iodine deficiency, I was not interested in what any thyroid labs were as I wanted to get my iodine status fixed and then whatever the labs might have been was not material, not very scientific, but my attitude.

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KSman
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I did attempt a PM, does not work.

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Ned
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KSman wrote:
Are you asking if normal guys should be castrated so they can get accurate thyroid labs? -NOT

Both T and thyroid levels need to be normalized as otherwise each can pull the other down.

Without iodine replenishment, you would see what the problem was. But your body temperature tells that story. Some will fix an iodine deficiency and if temperatures normalize and they feel better that is the end of the story. We know that fT4 is low and TSH up, so you need to decide what to do.

In my own iodine deficiency, I was not interested in what any thyroid labs were as I wanted to get my iodine status fixed and then whatever the labs might have been was not material, not very scientific, but my attitude.



Not exactly what i was asking but i see your point. I just didnt know if the external test would skew the numbers since i wouldnt be producing natural test. Obviously it doesnt matter.

I'm sure i will have these labs again at some point so it will be interesting to see how more iodine affects these numbers.


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Ned
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Just had my visit with this new Doc,

He suggests i quit the Test all together and just take clomid. 1/4 pill a day to start with then adjust based on numbers. Is he way off the mark on this?

I asked him about HCG and he said he knew some docs use it but said he had had such good results with the clomid alone that he didnt use it. He also stated that HCG has some side effects. I then asked what kind of sides as i havent read anything about HCG sides. He stated that HCG can make you get the facial features of andre the giant. Hands like him too.


I didnt know what to even say.... just kinda laughed and said have a nice day, then proceeded to leave his office.

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KSman
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So doc does not know the difference between hCG and hGH.

We have a thread for this:

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...docs_do_and_say

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Ned
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KSman wrote:
So doc does not know the difference between hCG and hGH.

We have a thread for this:

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...docs_do_and_say



I thought of that topic when he was blabbing away Ive added my input the thread.

KSman,

Thoughts on stopping test and going clomid only? Bad of an idea as it seems?

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KSman
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We need to understand you in the context of the E2 data that we do not have.

SERMs increase E2.

Not clomid, Nolvadex.

Need more body temps.

See the new sticky "thyroid basics"

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Ned
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Ksman,

im awaiting the results of my 1st labs since starting trt. e2 is one of these tests.

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KSman
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Need more body temps. Need more body temps. Need more body temps. Need more body temps. Need more body temps. Need more body temps. Need more body temps. Need more body temps. Need more body temps. Need more body temps. Need more body temps. Need more body temps.

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Ned
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Out of bed at 6:45, temp at 705...97.2


12.5mg Iodine tabs should be here friday or monday.

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Ned
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Newest labs as follows. been on 100mg test cyp a week divided into 2 doses a week. Ive been injecting on wednesday nights and sunday mornings. This blood draw was on a thursday morning.

Testosterone 511 Range: 300-623
anion gap 12.1 7-16
egfr 89 no range listed
estradiol <20 no range listed

I was taking anastrozole prior to these tests but had quit taking it all together about 1.5 weeks before the blood work. Think it still had an effect on these #'s?

Looks like she really over did it on this set of labs!

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Ned
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Can someone enlighten me on why some peoples ranges are say 340-1100 for testosterone range and mine are 300-623 all the time?

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Kaynon311
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Different labs have different ranges. They could also be placing you within an age group range. When I first began testing (29yr old) the lab range was 250-1100. At the time I was falling around the mid-500s. Later on in a different side of the country my lab range was 205-781 (which I believe was the range for a 30yr old) and I was around the low 600s. You would probably do well to shoot for the upper limit of their range, Ned.

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Ned
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Thanks Kaynon, I found a chart that says average for someone 28 should be right about 700. The top 10 percentile of the 25-34 age group was averaging 1005.

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Ned
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I just got out of a VA appt and actually have good news.

The Doc told me today that i obviously knew more than she did about TRT. She is going to talk to the new VA Endo about getting me on HCG. She said if the endo didnt approve it that she and I would "have to do it ourselves."

I go back in 2 months for more labs and she said at that time she would probably up my Test dose to 150mg a week trying to get me closer to the 800-900 mark. I asked her about the 623 being the high end of the range on all of my lab work.

She stated that this was the VA's range because when they set up the ranges that a lot of the Va patient population was older at the time.

She said she had no intentions of keeping me inside that range.

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nicholasb9393
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I want your VA Doc...

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Kaynon311
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That's awesome news, Ned. Next course of action is to create a powerpoint presentation to explain the importance of estradiol and aromatase inhibitors.

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Ned
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I laid the ground work for that yesterday when i was there. She couldnt find E2 Sensitive test as an option that the VA had but she is going to look into it more for me.

The last test was just estradiol and the results were <20 but also said that any reading under 44 for males could be inaccurate if i understood things correctly. I was taking anastrozole prior to this last labs but have 1.5 weeks off the anastrozole before the labs.

Should my e2 levels returned to actuals within this time limit or not?

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KSman
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Any way that you can have the labs done at different lab?
What lab company is it.

At 28YO, T levels should not be age adjusted down. But lab needs to have accurate age data provided as well.

In 1.5 weeks, there should be significant E2 rebound.

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Ned
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Ksman,

I dont think there is another option as to which lab does the testing. My guess is that they are contracted with a certain company and that's that.

I think if we can get my levels into the 900 range that i will be feeling a lot better, I already feel somewhat better getting levels from 270's to low 500's.

Once again Ksman, You were correct this VA GP has eventually been more help to me than any specialist could have thought of being.

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Ned
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Here's an update on my labs. been on 100mg Test Cyp a week for about 4 months now. Feeling much better than i was before starting TRT. I usually divide this into 2 doses but since the doc hasnt ok'd 2 50mg doses a week yet the week before my labs i took one 100mg shot.

All results are fasting and are 6 days after my last injection.

Free Test 9.8pg/ml Range: 8.8-27
Total Test 343 300-623
Cholestrol 191 <=200
HDL 33 >40
LDL 143 <100
TSH 1.68 .0465-4.68
PSA 1.14 0-4.0

The VA doesnt offer the e2 Sensitive test i guess so no E2 #'s I Have NOT been using an AI of any kind either.


Thoughts? Especially on my Cholestrol #'s. Ive been eating a lot better and exercising a lot more than prior to TRT. What could be causing these bad Numbers? I have been eating 2-4 eggs a day as a healthy snack.

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Ned
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Thoughts anyone?

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Ned
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Ksman,

Can you enlighten me on cholestrol #'s? From what ive been reading the last couple days, i dont think TRT can be related to my bad cholestrol #'s. If anything it looks like TRT should be helping cholestrol #'s improve.

Am i correct in my thinking/reading?

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