The Intelligent & Relentless Pursuit of Muscle™
T Replacement
 
Ever Heard This?
 

go2failure
Level

Join date: Feb 2008
Posts: 54

CJD8791 wrote:
Truthfully, I don't know enough about the pharmacokinetics of IM T to tell you. I'm new to this stuff but KSman would be able to help you.

Man I wish I had the guts to take that much T; it sounds awesome but I don't want to be on replacement for life, and I'm only 33. My TT was 450 a few weeks ago and I got a script for cypionate and I've take 75 mg total in 3 subQ EOD shots and I'm going to stop because I'm too young to start life long replacement. I'm hoping I can get my levels up to the 700's with dietary and supplement changes. I'm afraid that I'll like life too much cruising at TT 1000+


You know what's weird, my balls started off shrinking almost immediately from the first shot of 200mg, but now they are getting bigger than before I started. I'm about to take my 4th shot and based on a half-life calculator, my T levels will be as stable as they are going to get at this 1X week dosage. I've started taking a 1000mcg B-12 supplement, 25mg DHEA, 50mg of iron, and 50mg of zinc per day support regimen about 4-5 days ago.

This current Dr. seems to think I didnt have enough testosterone for a LONG time, possibly going back to my late teen years. Although I didnt have any pre-natal issues, shorter fingers/whatever, I wonder if I released enough to go through puberty and see some bodily changes, but not enough to properly develop. He's had some people get taller by a couple inches after starting TRT at these doses. I'm 6'0, 272lbs with about 17% bf. I was born 11 lbs 12ozs, and was supposed be 6'8. My cousin was born 10lbs and ended up 6'7 playing in the NFL. I'm above average on most lifts. This Dr. wants me to look into GH therapy and ask my endo about it.

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VTBalla34
Level 5

Join date: Mar 2009
Posts: 7536

Your doctor claims that men your age (how old are you?) have grown taller after starting T? Sounds like bullshit to me, unless the T somehow opened back up their growth plates which usually close around 21 years old or so.

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go2failure
Level

Join date: Feb 2008
Posts: 54

In normal cases, they are supposed to be closed by then. My case isnt normal for 2 reasons: 1) I'm just fucking weird 2) Who the fuck gets bigger balls with 200mg/week (literally, not figuratively LMAO)?

I've been reading a variety of boards a while and never seen this shit before. Perhaps I have a extra chromosome, who knows, but I do wish I had access to doctors who would consider a full treatment. As a person in the military, I get what I get or I fork out the dough and thats something I dont have a lot of right now. When my financial situation straightens out, I will see about getting a more comprehensive treatment out of pocket. Right now, the best I can hope for is to keep tweaking for better doses/timing on shots to treat the low test levels and the ED, not just one or the other. So far, I think the higher doses do the job, but it may be that I have to be in a SP range to do that.

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go2failure
Level

Join date: Feb 2008
Posts: 54

It takes 3 days after a 1 CC shot (200mg) to feel the full effects for something other than erections... I'm thinking of splitting the dose into 100mg mon and thurs for 2X and seeing how that does at still keeping erections rock hard, but providing better benefits all around. A 2 day "feel good time" makes me think I'm converting too much into estrogen or burning it all off to quick.

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go2failure
Level

Join date: Feb 2008
Posts: 54

Erections are now fuller than theyve been in 15 years and libido is high. I'm still recovering from a very bad flu case and a secondary bronchitis infection, but I'm noticing veins and I'm losing weight. I'm looking more toned and I havent been able to work out very hard over the past couple weeks due to the illness. I'm beggining to feel good and confident again. I had a bad breakout after my antibiotics wore off from the bronchitis, but I havent had anywhere near the acne I normally had with previous doses. I go in to check my bloodwork on the 10th of april.

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PureChance
Level

Join date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1547

get your results in your hands BEFORE your visit. why waste you visit having the doctor read them to you? get the results from the office, post them here, and then you can have an actual prepared conversation with the doctor about your treatment plan.

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go2failure
Level

Join date: Feb 2008
Posts: 54

PureChance wrote:
get your results in your hands BEFORE your visit. why waste you visit having the doctor read them to you? get the results from the office, post them here, and then you can have an actual prepared conversation with the doctor about your treatment plan.



Well this clinic took me by surprise, being thats its a regional uroglogy facility, it collects piss and blood literally right before your appointment. The T result is back in 15 mins and your CBC the next day. No answer on how long the estrogen takes.

So my TT levels, 2 days before my next 7 day shot (5 days) is 721. Again, this is at 200mg once per week. I did not get my estrogen test result back, but I'm going to see what it was at some point, along with my CBC.

My doc still does think estrogen is what is causing my "good followed by bad" results over time pattern. I started off with rock hard erections 4-5 weeks into the dosage increase. Then i got sick for like a month... flu, bronchitis/pneumonia, then a C-Diff infection caused by antibiotics usage that put me down for 2 weeks... Had to go on crazy meds for all three and the c-diff medicine, Flagyl, is basically fucking poison. Yeah ... So a lot of things there to include some of the medicines created havoc with my wood.

He acknowledged that on replacement T, yes estrogen increases. But in my case with the libido still intact and the ability to stiffen, just not as hard/rigid/long-lasting, he thinks my body is still adjusting to a lack of T over a LONG period of time. He said it can take years to feel the holes that were dug by low T with high E. His assessment of my situation is low NO levels. He had me start on 1g of Arginine 2X per day and so far it has really started helping after 2 days. He said that as you increase your T, it can take months for your body to regulate to the new levels , all around (not just E, thyroid, etc). By increasing T your body begins to utilize resources quicker and fills holes with the new capacity and sucks resources dry--in this case the NO.

I have to say, I've been pleased with the results so far. I've lost fat, gotten stronger, and reduced my PFT times in 8weeks. Just dialing in the NO levels now. Thyroid panels to come in May.

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VTBalla34
Level 5

Join date: Mar 2009
Posts: 7536

Curious to see how the NO/Arginine treatment works out for you. We have several members who complain of lack of erection quality even with an optimized TRT regimen, based on bloodwork. This could be a good find.

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go2failure
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Join date: Feb 2008
Posts: 54

--The arginine at 1000mg/2-3x day has showed me some improvements although slowly. I recently started taking milk thistle, ALCAR, and a-hd. I noticed improvements to hardness and fullness of erections prior to my frequency change to 2X week 100mg shots this week.

--I've recently started reducing caffeine consumption and instead drink water in its place. This has made improvements in how I feel. I'm going to be drinking more water to flush my system and stay hydrated.

--Now that I know how the once weekly shots were progressing and the times in which i felt good and the times in which i felt bad. I decided to try 2X week shots on mon & thurs, with the first beginning on apr 26th, using all the same supplements. I noticed an significant change to my waistline this morning. It appears to be much smaller. This is a higher dose than the 150mg/week I split up before, so I'll see how it works.

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go2failure
Level

Join date: Feb 2008
Posts: 54

Got my lab results back from the endo

FreeTest: 768 (taken before shot on shot day) 241-827
PSA: .60 (unchanged) 0-2.0
T4 Free: 1.1 0.8-1.5
T3 Free: 3.5 2.0-3.6
TSH: 1.820 .37-4.55


Glucose (didnt fast): 84 70-109
Potassium: 4.3 3.5-5.1
Sodium: 139 136-145
Chloride: 97 98-107
CO2: 32 21-32
Bun: 17 7-18
Creatinine: 1.0 0.6-1.3
Calcium 8.9 8.5-10.1
Phosporus: 3.8 2.5-4.9
Alb: 4.1 3.4-5.0
Anion Gap: 10 5-15
GFR: 91.5 >60

WBC: 8.2 3.1-9.7
RBC: 5.38 4.08-5.70
HGB: 16.1 13.1-16.8
HCT: 46.3 38.2-48.4
MCV: 86.1 80.1-98.5
MCH: 29.9 27.1-34.2
MCHC: 34.7 33-35.6
RDW: 13.8 11.8-15.1
Platelet: 176 130-351
Neut: 65 40.6-75.3
Lymph: 25.8 16.1-45.7
Mono: 7.5 3.7-12.2
Eos: 1.3 0-6.3
Baso: .4 0.1-1.3
Neut#: 5.4 0.9-7.4
Lymph#: 2.1 0.7-4.6
Mono#: .6 0.2-0.9
Eos#: .1 0-0.5
Baso: 0 0-0.1

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go2failure
Level

Join date: Feb 2008
Posts: 54

go2failure wrote:
--The arginine at 1000mg/2-3x day has showed me some improvements although slowly. I recently started taking milk thistle, ALCAR, and a-hd. I noticed improvements to hardness and fullness of erections prior to my frequency change to 2X week 100mg shots this week.

--I've recently started reducing caffeine consumption and instead drink water in its place. This has made improvements in how I feel. I'm going to be drinking more water to flush my system and stay hydrated.

--Now that I know how the once weekly shots were progressing and the times in which i felt good and the times in which i felt bad. I decided to try 2X week shots on mon & thurs, with the first beginning on apr 26th, using all the same supplements. I noticed an significant change to my waistline this morning. It appears to be much smaller. This is a higher dose than the 150mg/week I split up before, so I'll see how it works.



So now I've had 2 tests in a row showing 700 TT at 200mg/week of Test, but leaving me still feeling as if I am low T again. The previous attempts at trying to improve my wood with supplements have ultimately failed. My insurance covered Dr's still refuse to check E2, DHEA, pregnenolone,cortisol,progesterone, aldosterone, etc, etc,.

I finally just said fuck it and decided to pay out of pocket to a local Dr who will treat according to the results. I will be seeing him on Wednesday. He will be doing complete blood workup with a few nutritional labs as well salivary tests for cortisol etc. Based on his responses to how I described my symptoms, he believes AI's will be necessary and he does prescribe aromatase inhibitors, not sure on HCG. He is a member of A4M. More to come.


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