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T Replacement
 
Low Testosterone Experience Periods of Relief
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Johan Nes
Level

Join date: Apr 2012
Posts: 31

Hello all,

This is an important question I would like to get an answer from both from guys under current treatment and under diagnosis.

One of the things that have made me postpone pushing for TRT is that during these last years I`ve been wary of something being off in my body, I have experienced periods of relief where I actually feel great and have a raging libido. Typically a day or two, but often periods as long as a week as well.

Is this normal?

For a long time I thought it indicated hope that my body had the potential to function on it`s own, but I did not get any wiser.

Curious on your thoughts and experiences on this.

Thanks,

Johan Nes

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dooright
Level

Join date: Jun 2011
Posts: 147

Yep. We call it "getting older".

Most things go in cycles, and your body does too. Maybe it's caused by Testosterone, maybe it's something else. More probably it's a complex interaction between several factors. But it's what happens to all of us who survive our youth.

I think of it as a maturity problem.


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Johan Nes
Level

Join date: Apr 2012
Posts: 31

Thanks for the input.

That`s why I was interested in hearing if guys with low testosterone symptoms have experienced the same as me or if their state is constantly depressed.

I suppose that for me, it may be that my testosterone is borderline low, such that a small spike now and then may make me feel "normal" before I revert back to being borderline low.

200 views and only one bothered to answer. That`s disappointing. And if that is the level of participation on this forum, I`m not sure if I see any reason for hanging out here any longer.

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ikeholtz
Level 5

Join date: Dec 2002
Posts: 53

Not sure what you're asking, are on or off TRT. Have you had any testing done? I would say it's a good sign if you're NOT having ED or libido issues. That was not my issue I had them ALL the time.

The more thought out and relevant to people on TRT your question is the more responses you will get. It is not a chat forum.

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Undone
Level 1

Join date: Mar 2007
Posts: 138

Your question is so vague it is difficult to comment. Age, lab numbers, more concrete symptoms, etc. will elicit more concrete and helpful responses. Could be low T, could be low free T, could be high E2, could be a myriad of other problems.

There are a lot of bright people on this forum who generouslly take the time to share their knowledge and genuinely help people. Read all the stickies, scour the posts on this forum and then go back and re-read your post. Vague questions such as yours will likely receive vague answers or none at all.

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Johan Nes
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Join date: Apr 2012
Posts: 31

I`m sorry if I came across vague, so let me try again:

"Did or do any of you guys, either now under treatment or being currently diagnosed, experience your symptoms as being cyclical with periods where you actually felt good and normal? Or were your state consistently depressed without any relief?"

As for me personally, at the age of 27 years, the fact that I have had periods, although typically short, where I feel normal is what has postponed any decision with regards to going down the TRT route, since it have given me hope that I may actually function on my own and can find a natural explanation. I have given up that now, so it was merely a question of curiosity.

I already made a thread on my own specific situation with blood work and all relevant details. Probably too detailed since I did not get any replies there either. Maybe I smell bad. :-)

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dooright
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Join date: Jun 2011
Posts: 147

No. I have not been consistently depressed without any relief, and maybe you do smell bad. You don't ask much that we can answer here.

At twenty-seven? You're supposed to be out scamming the trim! Even at eighty seven something's wrong if you're constantly depressed. Find out what it is. No, wait! Have somebody professional find out what it is. They just might do a better job of it.







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Johan Nes
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Join date: Apr 2012
Posts: 31

I appreciate the sarcasm, thanks.

And apparently, your comprehension of the written word is rather poor if you can`t fathom my simple question. I never spoke about depression either, I spoke about a "depressed" state of being, i.e., low testosterone levels, fatigue, etc.

Different meaning.

As for "professionals", I`ve been seeing several of those the last years without receiving any help, so thank you very much. I was hoping to receive some guidance here, but apparently that will not happen.

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Bigchrome
Level

Join date: Mar 2012
Posts: 15

I'm surprised at the hostility you're receiving here, It seems like a simple and valid question to me!

I've been diagnosed with low T and feel pretty consistently crappy, however, like you describe I do also experience periods where everything seems to be going ok! I've had libido return, but most frequently I'll experience it in an alleviation of the brain fog I usually experience. I'm doing engineering in college so the difference on a "good day" or "bad day" is particularly apparent. I will quite literally go from being so well versed in a subject that I can tutor it to struggling to answer basic questions and making stupid mistakes in the course of a week.

It seems to indicate that my body COULD function better on its own, but I'm not willing to experience those wild fluctuations and be perpetually waiting for a "good" day so I've decided to go on TRT.

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VTBalla34
Level 5

Join date: Mar 2009
Posts: 7536

The only reason I have not weighed in on the thread is because frankly I don't know the answer. I stay out of topics that I am not at least basically versed in. Though I do browse it and weigh in when I can.

I suspect others are the same.

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Undone
Level 1

Join date: Mar 2007
Posts: 138

VTBalla34 wrote:
The only reason I have not weighed in on the thread is because frankly I don't know the answer. I stay out of topics that I am not at least basically versed in. Though I do browse it and weigh in when I can.

I suspect others are the same.


I think VT is spot on. It is easier to deal with lab numbers and specific symptoms and that is why there was not much response. I am sorry, I did not recall your previous post with your lab results.

Now that I read your re-stated situation it would lead me to guess that your system is functioning to some extent. I know Dr. Shippen had some success restarting natural production using clomid. I researched it and experimented with it last summer when I was using a weak concentration of gel. My doc at that time thought a TT of 450 was just fine. Sorry I can't recall the doses of clomid I used or the exact protocol but I can tell you it worked. I had bloodwork done after three weeks of clomid and my TT was 1350. The downside was my E2 was 62. I stopped the clomid but I do believe it boosted my natural production because now that I self- inject, I only use .75 mg per week and my TT is consistently around 1100 and my E2 is in the mid 20's.

If I would have known it was going to be that effective I would have documented the protocol. All I can say is it worked well for me, a 54 yo man. The research is out there so if you are interested you can do a little research and figure out what might work for you. I doubt you could find a doctor who would be on board with it, but clomid is easy to obtain ( and cheap). Just a suggestion. Good luck.

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dooright
Level

Join date: Jun 2011
Posts: 147

Hostility? I'm out.

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iroczinoz
Level

Join date: Jan 2011
Posts: 539

Could it be related to food? Do you usually eat the same day in day out? If you do then that would probably not explain it.

But maybe on your good days you were not eating something that your body does not like.

I don't know this is just a shot in the dark really.

So have you had blood work done? What was the result?

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Johan Nes
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Join date: Apr 2012
Posts: 31

Bigchrome wrote:
I've been diagnosed with low T and feel pretty consistently crappy, however, like you describe I do also experience periods where everything seems to be going ok! I've had libido return, but most frequently I'll experience it in an alleviation of the brain fog I usually experience. I'm doing engineering in college so the difference on a "good day" or "bad day" is particularly apparent. I will quite literally go from being so well versed in a subject that I can tutor it to struggling to answer basic questions and making stupid mistakes in the course of a week.

It seems to indicate that my body COULD function better on its own, but I'm not willing to experience those wild fluctuations and be perpetually waiting for a "good" day so I've decided to go on TRT.


Thank you for the input, appreciate it.

It sounds pretty much exactly like how I feel and after three years of trying to find a solution, I think I simply need to accept that I need TRT.

I suppose that for guys who are only borderline low, cyclical spikes may be enough that we feel normal at times. :)

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Johan Nes
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Join date: Apr 2012
Posts: 31

Undone wrote:
VTBalla34 wrote:
The only reason I have not weighed in on the thread is because frankly I don't know the answer. I stay out of topics that I am not at least basically versed in. Though I do browse it and weigh in when I can.

I suspect others are the same.


I think VT is spot on. It is easier to deal with lab numbers and specific symptoms and that is why there was not much response. I am sorry, I did not recall your previous post with your lab results.

Now that I read your re-stated situation it would lead me to guess that your system is functioning to some extent. I know Dr. Shippen had some success restarting natural production using clomid. I researched it and experimented with it last summer when I was using a weak concentration of gel. My doc at that time thought a TT of 450 was just fine. Sorry I can't recall the doses of clomid I used or the exact protocol but I can tell you it worked. I had bloodwork done after three weeks of clomid and my TT was 1350. The downside was my E2 was 62. I stopped the clomid but I do believe it boosted my natural production because now that I self- inject, I only use .75 mg per week and my TT is consistently around 1100 and my E2 is in the mid 20's.

If I would have known it was going to be that effective I would have documented the protocol. All I can say is it worked well for me, a 54 yo man. The research is out there so if you are interested you can do a little research and figure out what might work for you. I doubt you could find a doctor who would be on board with it, but clomid is easy to obtain ( and cheap). Just a suggestion. Good luck.


Thanks for the input and sound advice.

Actually, I already tried clomiphene therapy and have read quite a bit research on it. Initially I got a great boost in well-being and serum testosterone increased significantly as well, although far from the magnitude you experienced. The problem was that SHBG increased as well, such that from my calculations, free testosterone did not really improve by much. I wonder if it could be placebo. Anyways, after a while it seems like it stopped working and my doctor did not want to renew my prescription.

Got another prescription from a new doctor, but did not feel well on it after a few weeks, so I quit.

Right now, I`m trying HCG monotherapy as a last shot at stimulating my body to produce on it`s own, but I don`t notice anything after one week. May have to still give it some time.

Kind regards,

Johan

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Johan Nes
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Join date: Apr 2012
Posts: 31

iroczinoz wrote:
Could it be related to food? Do you usually eat the same day in day out? If you do then that would probably not explain it.

But maybe on your good days you were not eating something that your body does not like.

I don't know this is just a shot in the dark really.

So have you had blood work done? What was the result?


I`ve done my best to see if there is a pattern to the cyclical nature of my symptoms, but I can`t find any. It should be said that I typically feel down and the down periods seems to last longer lately, although there have been periods where I felt good for so long that I thought I was cured.

Not sure if my libido and crappy state necessarily are related though, as there are times where I feel physically fit, but with zero libido. Others time I may be tired, but have good libido.

With regards to a pattern, I don`t think it is food. But I have noticed that counter-intuitively, I often feel better when I work hard, sleep less than ideal and don`t necessarily eat the best food. Periods of low stress, lots of sleep and excellent food are often my worst periods. Actually, that is how I discovered that something was very off three years ago.

I already made a thread where I posted bloodwork: http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...om_range_levels

Regards,

Johan

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Undone
Level 1

Join date: Mar 2007
Posts: 138

I looked at your bloodwork on the other post and I think the HCG is probably a good last-shot attempt before trying full-blown TRT. Hopefully one of those work for you. Wish I had more to offer than hope but it seems like you have tried a lot of different ways to boost your natural production to no avail. Keep us updated on your progress. I am curious to see if the HCG yields results and, if not, TRT alleviates your problems.

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Johan Nes
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Join date: Apr 2012
Posts: 31

Undone wrote:
I looked at your bloodwork on the other post and I think the HCG is probably a good last-shot attempt before trying full-blown TRT. Hopefully one of those work for you. Wish I had more to offer than hope but it seems like you have tried a lot of different ways to boost your natural production to no avail. Keep us updated on your progress. I am curious to see if the HCG yields results and, if not, TRT alleviates your problems.


Thanks, Undone.

Will keep you posted.

I think one of the concerns I`ve had with TRT is that I want to know for sure that I actually need it and that I don`t end up fixing the symptoms of something else.

I was convinced that I had hemachromatosis since I had very high ferritin levels earlier and the symptoms are exactly the same as low testosterone. I`ve heard a lot of guys who actually suffer from HH which end up with TRT treatment and does not actually treat the real problem. That is potentially very dangerous in the long term.

After eliminating that, I`m not really sure what else it could be. Thyroid seems to be ok. I think the adrenals are okay as well, although I should probably see if I could get a 4X saliva test for cortisol. My doctor did not even check blood cortisol.

I still wonder if I could have gotten some permanent damage after long-term abuse of my body by stress, work and very little sleep. Regardless, I`ve been resting for a long time and don`t improve, so I guess it may be permanent.

Thanks again,

Johan Nes

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