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Weird Science - Tren Cough.
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bushidobadboy2
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Join date: Apr 2010
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So as a way to further our understanding of the tren cough, etc, I injected 0.5ml of trenbolone acetate into a vein in my arm.

There was mild chest tightness and burning, but nothing like as bad as the real tren cough.

I'm tired, so draw your own conclusions

BTW, this was 2 days ago and I'm still alive

So, if anyone gives a f**k, my opinion on the physiology is this:

Oil is injected into a vein.

Oil begins to form into little globules due to minor turbulance.

Oil/blood hits heart.

Turbulence in heart causes oil to form into tiny little globules.

Little globules hit lungs, block capilleries, cause shortness of breath/respiratory distress

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rrjc5488
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Join date: Jan 2005
Posts: 12904

Makes sense. I had my first bout with tren cough the other day about 30 seconds after I got the needle out of my glute. There was a fair bit of blood, so I had thought I pierced a vein and injected IM, but when I pulled the needle out, some of the oil seeped into my pierced vein.


Tren cough blows hard. lol

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jMill2
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bushidobadboy2 wrote:
So as a way to further our understanding of the tren cough, etc, I injected 0.5ml of trenbolone acetate into a vein in my arm.

Wow, you are surely a man dedicated to science!

Interesting and glad you're OK.

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bushidobadboy2
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Before I forget:

DO NOT REPEAT THIS EXPERIMENT!!!

There. Felt like is needed to be said, just in case someone tries to pin something on me.

Pun not intended. Pin... on me... geddit?


BBB

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GGlife
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Join date: Oct 2008
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I read somewhere once on the interweb a theory that tren cough was mediated by prostaglandins in the muscle itself. Given that injecting into a vein didnt elicit the same kind of response that an IM injection would, I thought I'd share this idea

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Westclock
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Join date: Aug 2008
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Holy fuck I literally cringed a little when I read .5ml tren into the vein.

I cant IV... No problems with IM, SubQ, I look forward to it, but IV... it freaks me the fuck out, weird compulsion I know.
When you said tren into the vein...god damn.

Ive never had Tren cough as yall describe it, but I do experience difficulty breathing normally during cardio, it feels nearly identical to exercise induced asthma, with which I am intimately familiar.

Use of my albuterol inhaler (for exercise induced) brings me back to nearly complete normal.

But that could also simply be due to the fact that albuterol will improve oxygen absorption chemically; and will increase the actual air flow into the lungs BEYOND normal by relaxing the tissue.

So it could simply be compensating for the Tren's effect; that is occurring in a completely different manner. As opposed to curing the problem by actually reducing any sort of ACTUAL asthmatic type inflammation.

I do notice little coughs during the day, almost like irritation in the back of my throat, like Ive been smoking, they are suppressible, but I feel the need to cough every once in a while, fairly regularly, just once or twice. More often right after my injection, agian, clean injection, perfect even, no blood, etc.

Just a little chest irritation, feels like I need to cough once or twice, like I got a whiff of cig smoke.

No coughing fits, just general, very very mild, but noticeable chest tightness, and irritation. All day.

Its fascinating really.

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bushidobadboy2
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GGlife wrote:
I read somewhere once on the interweb a theory that tren cough was mediated by prostaglandins in the muscle itself. Given that injecting into a vein didnt elicit the same kind of response that an IM injection would, I thought I'd share this idea


Thanks for the input, but I'm a little confused. 'The muscle itself'... I assue you mean the injected muscle, not the diaphragm or lung tissue.

So what you are relaying to us is that you read a theory that stated that prostaglandins are released from the injected muscle and this somehow makes you cough?

Sounds a little sketchy to me, I have to say.

BBB

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Karl Marx
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Join date: Jul 2009
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Excuse my ignorance. I don't see why Tren cough, from the BBB theory, is TREN cough. Shouldn't any steroid in oil give you the cough then? What is specific to tren that gives it this action?

(p.s. I LOVE that you all experiment and try to push things here....my comment shouldn't not be read as a critique but I am really just trying to join in the spirit of inquiry here!)

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Rational Gaze
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BBB, if you plan any more of these experiments, can you let us know before you do them?

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GGlife
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Googling the topic brought this up:


"Prostaglandins are made by two different pathways(Cyclooxygenase and Lipoxygenase), and considering prostaglandins are a group of about 20 lipid cells, they have contrary function; responsible for stimulating as well as alleviating inflammation(Inflammation stimulation is the rapid metabolism of them expelled through the bronchials), regulate blood flow to particular organs, control ion transport across membranes, modulate synaptic transmission, induce sleep, mediate lipid release, and regulate metabolism is various tissue.

Prostaglandins are synthesized from arachidonate(Lipoxygenase which catalyze the dioxygenation of polyunsaturated fatty acids) in the cell membrane by the action of phospholipase A2. Cyclooxygenase and lipoxygenase pathways, compete with one another to form prostaglandins(as well as thromboxane or leukotriene-leukotriene being a bronchial stimulator),
In the cyclooxygenase pathway, the prostaglandins D, E and F plus thromboxane and prostacyclin are made.

Thromboxanes are made in platelets and cause constriction of vascular smooth muscle and platelet aggregation
Leukotrienes are made in leukocytes and macrophages via the lipoxygenase pathway. They are potent constrictors of the bronchial airways. They are also important in inflammation and hypersensitivity reactions as they increase vascular permeability.

Being that prostaglandins from either pathway, are still fatty acids of a group, they mediate lipid release and controll tissue metabolization, so fat burning is a luxerry of either pathway of formation. It's the pathway from which they are constructed that dictates "fina cough". As prostaglandins made from the Cyclooxygenase pathway dictate muscle constriction and platlet aggregation, and the Lipoxygenase pathway dictates bronchial constriction(the main form of expulsion)"


I couldn't find anything commenting on whether the PG's were released locally in the injected muscle and had their affect systemically, or instead in the bronchial smooth muscle itself

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bushidobadboy2
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Karl Marx wrote:
Excuse my ignorance. I don't see why Tren cough, from the BBB theory, is TREN cough. Shouldn't any steroid in oil give you the cough then? What is specific to tren that gives it this action?

(p.s. I LOVE that you all experiment and try to push things here....my comment shouldn't not be read as a critique but I am really just trying to join in the spirit of inquiry here!)


Well that's the thing. It's almost universally known as 'the tren cough' but for no reason that I can explain, save maybe that trenbolone has an irritant-to-lung component to it.

This may be true (else why would tren be deleterous to cardio training), or it may not be.

Either way, I have had the cough with other AAS.

So suspect my theory on oil globules is correct, but if you add in tren it may make the effects worse, due to that irritant factor.

BBB

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bushidobadboy2
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GGlife wrote:
Googling the topic brought this up:


"Prostaglandins are made by two different pathways(Cyclooxygenase and Lipoxygenase), and considering prostaglandins are a group of about 20 lipid cells, they have contrary function; responsible for stimulating as well as alleviating inflammation(Inflammation stimulation is the rapid metabolism of them expelled through the bronchials), regulate blood flow to particular organs, control ion transport across membranes, modulate synaptic transmission, induce sleep, mediate lipid release, and regulate metabolism is various tissue.

Prostaglandins are synthesized from arachidonate(Lipoxygenase which catalyze the dioxygenation of polyunsaturated fatty acids) in the cell membrane by the action of phospholipase A2. Cyclooxygenase and lipoxygenase pathways, compete with one another to form prostaglandins(as well as thromboxane or leukotriene-leukotriene being a bronchial stimulator),
In the cyclooxygenase pathway, the prostaglandins D, E and F plus thromboxane and prostacyclin are made.

Thromboxanes are made in platelets and cause constriction of vascular smooth muscle and platelet aggregation
Leukotrienes are made in leukocytes and macrophages via the lipoxygenase pathway. They are potent constrictors of the bronchial airways. They are also important in inflammation and hypersensitivity reactions as they increase vascular permeability.

Being that prostaglandins from either pathway, are still fatty acids of a group, they mediate lipid release and controll tissue metabolization, so fat burning is a luxerry of either pathway of formation. It's the pathway from which they are constructed that dictates "fina cough". As prostaglandins made from the Cyclooxygenase pathway dictate muscle constriction and platlet aggregation, and the Lipoxygenase pathway dictates bronchial constriction(the main form of expulsion)"


I couldn't find anything commenting on whether the PG's were released locally in the injected muscle and had their affect systemically, or instead in the bronchial smooth muscle itself


Yeah, I know enough about PGs to know what the theory might be trying to say, BUT I doubt PGs would be produced in muscle quickly enough to mingle with the oil as it flows towards the lungs after entering a vein.

BBB

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smith machine
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Intresting thread

I only get this type of cough with tren and tren only and its severe for me (i am taking just under 600mg/week which is a higher dose so probably makes it worse).

First I get light headed during injection almost straight away so I know its coming then the cough cripples me usually for about 3 minutes after injection.

No other aas or combination of aas's give me this sort of reaction.

I when I inject and the needle goes through a blood vessel/vein (not aspirate blood but when I do pierce through a blood vessel pushing through) sometimes I get the cough and sometimes i dont.

When I dont pierce a blood vessel and simply go straight into just muscle...i never get the cough. Never.

I wonder if it has anything to do with the type of blood vessel/vein we push through. I suspect it might cause it seems to with me but have no idea why and cant explain the theory except i dont get it every time i go through a blood vessel/vain but only get it when I push through one of these.

Strange. It has me beat.

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smith machine
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Breathing deep in the bottom of my lungs and taking short breaths seems to help me alot to reduce the coughing BTW

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jMill2
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smith machine wrote:
I only get this type of cough with tren and tren only and its severe for me (i am taking just under 600mg/day which is a higher dose so probably makes it worse).

Did you mean 600mg/week?

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GGlife
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Join date: Oct 2008
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BBB, im interested to know your opinion on why your IV inject resulted in less Tren cough than you have experienced in past IM injections. Surely if direct irritation of lung tissue/embolism effects were responsible for the cough, an IV inject should produce the worst cough. Then again, you did only inject 0.5mL

Any ideas?

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bushidobadboy2
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GGlife wrote:
BBB, im interested to know your opinion on why your IV inject resulted in less Tren cough than you have experienced in past IM injections. Surely if direct irritation of lung tissue/embolism effects were responsible for the cough, an IV inject should produce the worst cough. Then again, you did only inject 0.5mL

Any ideas?


I believe the 'tren' cough is actually primarilly caused by mis-injecting a relatively large (greater than 1ml) volume of oil-based prep into the venous system.

IF tren is included in that oil mis-inject, then it will make the symptoms worse, by warrant of trens' probable lung tissue irritant properties.

BUT a large enough amount of non-tren AAS should still induce the cough.

So yes, it was the fact that I only injected 0.5ml into my venous system that meant I got only a fraction of the symptoms IMO. Even though it was tren, that low volume by itself was insufficient to induce the cough. Had there been 0.5ml tren and 0.5ml test, the results might have been slightly different. Had the shot been 1ml of test only, then the results would likely have been the same as I experienced. Had the shot been 1ml of tren only, then I suspect I might have triggered a full-blown cough.

I could be wrong. Good science is about good observation and my observation skills are only so-so.

BBB

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BenceJones
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It could be due to the amount of BA/BB in the mix. Tren products might typically be made with more, and when it hits the lungs causes a vasospasm of some sort. I say this because I have experienced this with Test, but only with a Test E mix that was very painful to inject and I assume it had a high BA content.

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jMill2
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My Tren is brewed with only 2/15 BA/BB (probably can't get much lower than that unless you use other solvents as well) and I've had the cough. Since I inject so slow, I can usually feel it coming on before it hits hard so I just pause injecting until the irritation in my throat fades.

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Dave_
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Join date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1495

FWIW, my OWN Tren has never given me "tren cough" as people describe it.

I can get a mild version of the same if I hit a vessel with all and any AAS, but it is no worse with tren.

The only time I have experienced "tren cough" is when using other peoples' tren... there is an idea floating around that tren needs higher solvent conc to hold... probably because it is so often seen at 75mg/ml (ace). I can certainly "taste" the BA/BB as it evaporates out of my lungs if I inadvertently i.v. my AAS.

Perhaps it is simply due to a higher solvent conc used by most UGLs when manufacturing tren?

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FuriousGeorge
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If this is true then you would get the same thing with test prop though (since most probably use the same conc of solvents with prop)...I've never heard of Prop cough.

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MrZsasz
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Has anyone ever experienced the same effects from a higher quality product, ie pharmacy grade? That might show that the concentration has little to do with it compared to everyone's experience with homebrew or UG labs which wouldn't be made as precise or cleanly.

Either that or I misread something along the way. Apologies in advance if that's the case, pretty sleepy.

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smith machine
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jMill2 wrote:
smith machine wrote:
I only get this type of cough with tren and tren only and its severe for me (i am taking just under 600mg/day which is a higher dose so probably makes it worse).

Did you mean 600mg/week?


My bad sorry yes. Per week

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smith machine
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bushidobadboy2 wrote:
GGlife wrote:
BBB, im interested to know your opinion on why your IV inject resulted in less Tren cough than you have experienced in past IM injections. Surely if direct irritation of lung tissue/embolism effects were responsible for the cough, an IV inject should produce the worst cough. Then again, you did only inject 0.5mL

Any ideas?


I believe the 'tren' cough is actually primarilly caused by mis-injecting a relatively large (greater than 1ml) volume of oil-based prep into the venous system.

IF tren is included in that oil mis-inject, then it will make the symptoms worse, by warrant of trens' probable lung tissue irritant properties.

BUT a large enough amount of non-tren AAS should still induce the cough.

So yes, it was the fact that I only injected 0.5ml into my venous system that meant I got only a fraction of the symptoms IMO. Even though it was tren, that low volume by itself was insufficient to induce the cough. Had there been 0.5ml tren and 0.5ml test, the results might have been slightly different. Had the shot been 1ml of test only, then the results would likely have been the same as I experienced. Had the shot been 1ml of tren only, then I suspect I might have triggered a full-blown cough.

I could be wrong. Good science is about good observation and my observation skills are only so-so.

BBB


I did 1.3cc ed last cycle without tren and didnt get any cough till I started using the tren with it.

Also I have never had any cough when frontloading test/eq on different days (3ccs+).

Its definetly just the tren for me.

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Chris Eales
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In 4 tren cycles only had it once.Uncontrollable cough lasting about 1min but feels like ur lungs are burning for the next 4 or 5 mins.....terrible experience.Also just had this happen with acetate and never enathanate.

1 time and it was a botched injectiona little bit of blood came thru the injection site.

NOT VERY FUN

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