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Tren/Cabergoline
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timhlbrk
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Join date: Jul 2006
Posts: 306

Is Cabergoline mandatory fair when using tren or is it on a "as needed basis"?

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2thepain
Level 3

Join date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1544

Cabergoline is the best thing to prevent any progesterone induced sides, but B-6 in high dosages (500mg/day) is also pretty effective, for much less.

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Schwarzenegger
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Join date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1597

Most people don't get progesterone sides at moderate doses. If you're looking to push over 75mg/day then you might have problems. This also depends on personal tolerance to estrogen sides. If you typically have trouble with estrogen then you will likely have problems with progesterone, unless you run tren by itself (which I do not recommend).

Cabergoline is expensive, so if you begin developing sides and an a SERM or AI aren't working after a couple days then order some cabergoline from chemone or similar. It should arrive within a couple days, so you won't shouldn't experience any permanent side effects while waiting.

I have no direct experience but a lot of people say B6 works okay.

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Christomopher
Level 1

Join date: Aug 2005
Posts: 99

the last time I checked I didn't see any cabergoline on sale at chemone

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Schwarzenegger
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Join date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1597

Christomopher wrote:
the last time I checked I didn't see any cabergoline on sale at chemone


I just saw this too. I'm curious as to why (rainjack?).

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bushidobadboy
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2004
Posts: 15565

You should be fine running tren, as long as you keep any aromatising steroids to a reasonable level.

As an illustration.

I once ran 400mg tren enan/wk with 800mg test enan.

I was completely fine for weeks. Then I decided to try adding in some test prop for an extra kick. Boom, gyno within 10 days.

I dropped the tren and lowered the test to around 500mg/wk. Replaced tren with primo and added a little a'dex (1mg ED for 7 days, dropping down to 0.5 ED then EOD then 0.25 EOD).

That took care of the problem.



Bushy

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timhlbrk
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Join date: Jul 2006
Posts: 306

bushidobadboy wrote:
You should be fine running tren, as long as you keep any aromatising steroids to a reasonable level.

As an illustration.

I once ran 400mg tren enan/wk with 800mg test enan.

I was completely fine for weeks. Then I decided to try adding in some test prop for an extra kick. Boom, gyno within 10 days.

I dropped the tren and lowered the test to around 500mg/wk. Replaced tren with primo and added a little a'dex (1mg ED for 7 days, dropping down to 0.5 ED then EOD then 0.25 EOD).

That took care of the problem.



Bushy


[Thanks man]

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jhaz
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Join date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2

Mybe im confused on what your asking but i used tren for about 10weeks wiht .5cc everyother day and had no problems i used clomids or whoever you spell it for recovery..

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TheBeat
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Join date: Jun 2003
Posts: 255

2thepain wrote:
Cabergoline is the best thing to prevent any progesterone induced sides, but B-6 in high dosages (500mg/day) is also pretty effective, for much less.


Cabergoline does almost nothing for progesterone. I think that you and 90% of the public mean/meant to say prolactin. There was a study where it was shown that progesterone was lowered with caber - it was using pregnant women and the lowering effect it had on progesterone was considered non-significant!

and that was by an indirect mechanism where the lowering of prolactin causes a slight lowering of progesterone, though not as great of a effect as lowering estrogen or increasing dht does. Great for controling prolactin though, and recovery after sex. Also B6 does nothing for progesterone, but does for Prolactin.

Now as far as if one NEEDS caber to control a potential raise in prolactin, I wouldn't ever say that it is needed, but might be a good safety procaution or ancillery to boost sexual performance to go with your increased sex drive and aggression. B6 at 200-600mg has been shown to reduce prolactin too, but nowhere close to that of Bromo which is less than that of Caber, but still has an effect.

Of interest is the fact that many quote that B6 causes its lowering through raising dopamine, even though most studies site an indepedant mechanism for it's action and not through raising dopamine. I've been curious as to some sort of synergy of Dbol with Tren or deca as far as the dopamine/progestin thing goes. Dbol and Tren = heaven, so maybe.

And the best thing to control progesteronic sides is to control estrogen.

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juice20jd
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Join date: Dec 2003
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if you are stacking tren with an aromitizable steroid, then control elevated estrogen through the use of an AI. That alone will reduce the likelihood of experiencing P sides.

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timhlbrk
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Join date: Jul 2006
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jhaz wrote:
Mybe im confused on what your asking but i used tren for about 10weeks wiht .5cc everyother day and had no problems i used clomids or whoever you spell it for recovery..


"HUH?"

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tw1st
Level 1

Join date: Sep 2004
Posts: 118

the B6 you guys are talking about is the normal
B6 oral vitamin?

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InTheZone
Level 1

Join date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2393

juice20jd wrote:
if you are stacking tren with an aromitizable steroid, then control elevated estrogen through the use of an AI. That alone will reduce the likelihood of experiencing P sides.


Yeah that's my preferred plan of action. But if one were to need the caber, what is the dosage range most commonly used guys?

ToneBone

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bushidobadboy
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2004
Posts: 15565

High dose B6 has been shown to be toxic to certain parts of your brain.

My strong advice would be not to do it.



Bushy

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juicn4eva
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Join date: Oct 2007
Posts: 109

Whats considered a high dose?

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beebuddy
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Join date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2697

bushidobadboy wrote:
High dose B6 has been shown to be toxic to certain parts of your brain.

My strong advice would be not to do it.



Bushy


I looked into this the other day and supposedly b-6 toxicity is totally reversible.

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InTheZone
Level 1

Join date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2393

juicn4eva wrote:
Whats considered a high dose?


FDA says nix on anything over 100 mg/day believe it or not.

I know I dug up something from one of rainjacks threads a while back where he used something like 240mg/day successfully and once around 400/day I believe, which resulted in headaches for him.


Beebuddy: Yep I read that too, but I would caution against believing that is effective for high end doses at any length of time. I think that's more for a very temporary short burst of moderately high dose.

Good thread.

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bushidobadboy
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2004
Posts: 15565

Can you please link to the info you found?


Bushy

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beebuddy
Level 1

Join date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2697

Try the first link, it's a PDF so I just linked google.

http://www.google.com/...ble&spell=1

Supposedly it takes a few grams a day to do irreversible damage. So it would be wise for those interested to consider that I suppose.

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bushidobadboy
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2004
Posts: 15565

Thanks for that. However, it looks like the damage may be reversible but only after years, and having don esome serious damage.

Symptoms of MS?? Fuck that, I'd rather have gyno, thanks.

http://www.medhelp.org/...posts/show/2642

Bushy

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beebuddy
Level 1

Join date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2697

bushidobadboy wrote:
Thanks for that. However, it looks like the damage may be reversible but only after years, and having don esome serious damage.

Symptoms of MS?? Fuck that, I'd rather have gyno, thanks.

http://www.medhelp.org/...posts/show/2642

Bushy


The alternative...

http://www.drugs.com/...o/dostinex.html

It doesn't seem that bad, but I would prefer to experiment with b6 before experimenting with dostinex. The FDA has approved 100mg a day as the upper limit for b6, in case anyone was wondering.

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bushidobadboy
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2004
Posts: 15565

And yet, I thought that 300mg ED was the recommended minimum to control prolactin/progesterone (i get confused, lol)?

Personally, I think that if you control excess E, you can run tren or deca just fine.

Of course, you need to keep AAS doses reasonable.

I agree that dostinex doesn't look too appealing either, with is why I don't use it.


Bushy

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FuriousGeorge
Level 5

Join date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1225

sorry to hijack but how do you guys know the difference between:

1) too much estrogen
2) too much prolactin
3) too much progesterone

what are the symptoms of each? How do you know which is the culprit to the gyno issues?

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saps
Level 2

Join date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2764

Whatever you do, don't throw Nolva on Tren gyno. Bushy's example is good, AI's are the better way to fly here. ChemOne has been out of caber for months.

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InTheZone
Level 1

Join date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2393

sapasion wrote:
Whatever you do, don't throw Nolva on Tren gyno. Bushy's example is good, AI's are the better way to fly here. ChemOne has been out of caber for months.


So what's the verdict on Caber then?
I know a place where there is some good pricing on it.

Again I plan to use adex or asin for overall estro control, but hell, having a load of caber on standby sounds awfully nice.

ToneBone

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