Just starting a thread so the definitive test taper (a.k.a. stasis/taper) can be posted. Please do not debate the theory here. Keep this purely a repository of taper protocols.

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1. Prisoner's original protocol?

2. Prisoner later mentioned adding in AI or SERM use?

3. Prisoner mentioned being able to taper other AAS besides just test? (Something about masteron comes to mind).

4. Bushy mentioned adding peptides?

5. Anything outside of the above "standard" protocols?

This is the protocol:

Following the cycle use a 4-6 week waiting period also refered to as 'stasis period' by somebody.

4 weeks if you are using esters such as propinate.

esters such as cypionate and enanthate are in the middle - 4-6 week waiting period - your decision as it is a tough call. I prefer more weeks then less.

6 week waiting period for esters such as decanoate -i.e. deca.

During the waiting period you should taper off any aromatase inhibitors you are using - basically get rid of all drugs in your system besides testosterone.

Once the waiting period is over, then gradually reduce the dose weekly for 6 weeks untill you are off.

I preffer injecting enanthate twice per week as my ester of choice. But you can use propinate or sustenon as well, just devide it into 3 doses per week.

Once the taper starts, that is around the time you would start using a serm if you are going to use one.

You can taper without a serm and still be successfull doing so.

the research showed no hpta suppression while using a serm and low dose testosterone - 100mg per week

It also showed no hpta suppression with no serm use while using 25mg of testosterone enanthate per week.

So as i said it is possible to taper with our without a serm successfully.

If you are using HCG during the cycle to maintain testicular size and function - you must stop HCG at the end of your cycle and by hcg free throughout the waiting period.


So to put it all together using testosterone enanthatate dose split into biweekly injections:

Cycle ends, stop hcg if using,

start Waiting peroid:

Week 1-6 or 1-4: Test E 100mg per week
Taper off Arimidex or femara fully by week 3

Taper phase:

week 1-6

mg/ week: 80mg / 60mg/ 50mg/ 40mg/ 30 mg/ 20mg.

Start your Serm (nolva or clomid) at the begining of the taper if you choose to do so.


If you decide to use Masteron,

Then you use 50mg Test E, and 50mg Masteron E per week or masteron prop, with test prop for the waiting period, and keep the ratio the same as you taper down as well (1:1, with the starting totol mg amount 100mg).

No Serm use is needed and i have found libido to be even better when using this mix.

the masteron acts as an anti E, and the DHT enhances libido. The masteron itself at that amount does not subtract from hpta function more than it adds libido enhance ment, and estrogen control.

The masteron is the only drug that i have found to fit the bill perfectly for this purpose, but you can try aromasis as well, but I don't think it would have the same positive effects on libido.

As for using other drugs during your pct that may enhance workouts and maintain size...

there are a wide variety of supplements out there that have no negative effect on the hpta.

As for other drugs, some options would be:

IGF, MGF, HGH....

Clenbutoral,

and Insulin which I highly do not recommend.

Great post Pris and great idea Schwarz! Mods can we PLEEEEASE sticky this?!

Great info I'm gonna give the taper a try when I cycle, read the original taper thread and everything sounds good to me.

Thanks schwarz and Prisoner

OK well I can't get into this as much as I would like because I have developed a minor RSI from too much typing recently (bloody 'back pain' threads, hahaha).

Anyway, my initial though to making the taper slightly more effective for those who do not recover well, or who possibly have sub=optimal natural test levels, pre-cycle, was to incorporate one of the new generation of SERMS into the taper.

Now I would have suggested toremifene beginning at arounfd the 40mg exo test taper mark, but since Pris has commented that research showed no suppression of natural test @ 100mg/wk of exo test WITH a SERM, then it looks as though SERM application could begin earlier in the recovery phase, i.e. @ the 100mg/wk mark.

Now I have just been doing some research and it looks as though mesterolone (proviron) @ up to 100-150mg/day shows no reduction in serum testosterone or on liver values in oligospermic men. In fact, the mesterolone improved fertility in the men suffering from very low sperm production [1].

So, it would seem that for those coming off long cycles, and worried about possible fertility issues, there may be benefit from the addition of proviron.

Having said that though, there are other studies that question the benefits of such therapy.

Also, it would seem that toremifene offers similar benefits to sperm production [2], so might negate the purpose of the proviron. Toremefine may also lower the risk of prostate cancer [3].

Interesting though that 12 months of 100-150mg ED of proviron had no effect on liver values...


Bushy

1: The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men.

2: The beneficial effects of toremifene administration on the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis and sperm parameters in men with idiopathic oligozoospermia.

3: Toremifene for the prevention of prostate cancer in men with high grade prostatic intraepithelial neoplasia: results of a double-blind, placebo controlled, phase IIB clinical trial.

First off, this is a great thread for clearing up many misconceptions about the taper protocol.

I have one question for Prisoner. You say that you can use nolv during the taper period, would you use a typical 40/40/20/20 for dosage or should there be a different dosage schedule to adhere to?

I tried the test/mast taper after my last cycle (with some IGF-1 added into the mix like this)

W 1-2 IGF-1 40mcg post workout
W 1-4 Test 25mg 2x/w, Mast 25mg 2x/w
W 5 20/20 2x/w
W 6 15/15 2x/w
W 7 10/10 2x/w
W 8 5/5 2x/w

and it worked ok but not great (lost some strength, lost some weight, lost some libido as soon as the stasis started and kept dropping slightly through the taper)....this may just have been a return to normal after a very long and fairly high dose cycle (6 months of 1+gm/w) which was bound to happen.

I did end up gaining some weight back a month or two after my taper was done (I got all the way back to where I was pre-stasis although not as lean and not nearly as strong) which leads me to believe I didn't recover all that well during the taper.

After rethinking things I maybe should have had a longer stasis period and I may not have tapered long enough either (I only did 4 and 4 not 6 and 6). Maybe I am just not someone that holds the size/strength that well because most of it is water retention and extra glycogen stores in the muscles anyway...I tend to blow up pretty quick as soon as I gear.

One thing I did notice was that where I used the IGF-1 I lost very little size (mostly arms, calves, and some in the quads)...my measurements today are pretty close to where they were on cycle in those spots. My theory for the IGF-1 was to try to cement gains that were likely mostly hypertrophy by having those fibers gain nucleii so the fiber could support more mass after the androgens were removed.

No real scientific backing, just theory...which upon reflection may be similar in terms of permenant gains if I had just used the IGF-1 when I was blasting androgens. More testing is required.

I think that Proviron would possibly be a better drug than masteron for recovery. The liturature that I have read (sorry no refs like bush here just memory) suggests that there is less suppression with prov than mast and it may be accomplishing the same thing (basically being a DHT to bind SHBG and block estro conversion of what little test is left). Pris is there a reason you chose Mast instead of Prov?

I think if I could run 100mg/w test during the stasis and then taper that over 6 weeks with about 50mg/d prov right through from stasis to taper I would be happier both in terms of strenth and libido. Something like this:

W 1-12 Prov 50mg/d
W 1-6 Test E 50mg 2x/w
W 7-12 taper Test
W 7-10 Clomid (so I can throw a gallon of throat yogurt)

FG

On an added note, to compare how you do on the Test Taper, you have to put it against another kind of PCT you did before, not on how you felt while on cycle!

It's impossible to feel as good, as strong and as horny as when you were on 1g+ of gear. You WILL lose some gains. On any kind of PCT. The gains are rarely - if ever - permanent at a 100% ratio.

Given that using a SERM with 100mg of test does not impact HPTA function, I would assume that using a SERM use during the waiting period would speed up the recovery process of the HPTA. Do you think a quicker 4+4 could be effective with early SERM use, compared to the 6+6 without one?

To add to the thread:

6. What is the recommended cycle length at which point the test taper would be better than standard PCT protocol?

7. Does this recommendation change based on the inclusion of non-test AAS?

8. What about blast and cruise cycles?

In a Bill Roberts study on the 2 weeks on/4 weeks off aprroach, the dude actually injects 400mg of Primo on the first day of his first "off" week, and uses 5mg of Dianobol first thing in the morning IIRC.

So... maybe doing a "blast and cruise speed version" would be 2 weeks on + 2 to 4 weeks off with 100mg of Test in the off weeks, following it all by a a couple of weeks at 100mg and then a taper?

2 weeks can shut you down, especially if you use compounds like Tren. Maybe that could be a way around it.

At what point should tribulus products be introduced into the taper if at all?

Sticky!

I kow this thread is a little old so sorry for bringing it back up.

But I was wondering what your training should look like during the waiting or stasis period. I know the frequency and volume shouldnt be like when you are on cycle however, since 100mg/week is close to that of a healthy male, can you train as hard as someone who is not natural?

Jazz

If you were running enanthate, you could train hard for that first week or so while you still have high blood levels of test, but it probably isn't necessary. You need to back off the volume big time. Train intense (in this case meaning heavy weight) in the lower rep range, I personally do sets of 5-6, and a lot less of those. I do a push, pull and leg 3 day a week split.

MODS!!!

STICKY THIS PLEASE!!!

STICKY THIS MODS!!!