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Test Enanthate vs Sustanon?
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bullman08
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Join date: Apr 2008
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Im preping gear for 2nd cycle, it will be Enanthate or Sustanon,
Im told that you get bigger gains from test E but you loose a lot of the gains latter, is that true? , please help on which one to use, THX



30yrs old 6'3 210 lbs

10wk cycle

wk1-4 dbol 25mg/d
wk1-10 test 500mg
wk 1-10 adex .25mg/d

pct 3 weeks after last injection,
clomid + nolva


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Dirty Gerdy
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Join date: Apr 2008
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My only advice is that Test is Test. The only difference between enanthate and Sustanon is the ester length.

Enanthate being a fairly long estered version of test, meaning it will require less frequent injections but take longer to 'kick in'.

Sustanon is a blend of esters ranging from fast to really long. It must be shot EOD because of the shorter esters. You will 'most likely' start feeling it's effects sooner than the E.

I don't have experience with either but am currently playing with propionate. I've been on for 1 week and already feel it. I am injecting ED tho.

From what I know people seem to either love or hate Sustanon. Compared between the two, would you like to inject more or less frequently? Sustanon's long ester also makes pct a little more difficult. :s

As I said tho, I have NO experience with either one of those, and my opinion is just what I have researched and 'think' I know :P

Some may say to bump the Dbol a little (30-40mg/day), run the test for 12 weeks. Possibly use Test E for 12 weeks and then the Test Taper instead of your SERM pct.

Good luck.

DG

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bullman08
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I would prefer the Enanthate, I know that test is a test but they are still different. I found few stats stating that sus is better in keeping gains. Anyone that was has experienced Enanthate please help out with any recommendations.

THX

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Dirty Gerdy
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Tried searching?

It's been covered...

DG

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Brook
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I too am having my first "play" with Prop Gerdo, an I gotta say, I am in love.
It is a particualrly quality product i have which is a magnificent change i might add - but i love the prop effects.. Waiting 6 weeks on Cyp? I had gained shape and size on the prop (water most likely but all i need psychologically in the gym) within a couple days.
Found my test of choice.

As for OP.. it has been covered plenty - read the profiles and choose IMO. But if i were to help at all:

Sust needs injecting EOD at least and i would inject ED.
IF that is palatable to you, then it will work faster than the Enanthate and SHOULD bring the same, albeit slightly dryer gains. (With the same identical diet and human and work, etc. etc..)

I do find that Cyp (my experience hasn't been with Enanthate but i am confident that this experience translates) leads to quite a lot of water and fat on a fairly sloppy bulk diet - when compared to a deca cycle for example (as of course a sloppy diet increases fat and water in general!)


;)

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Dirty Gerdy
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Brook wrote:
I too am having my first "play" with Prop Gerdo, an I gotta say, I am in love.
It is a particualrly quality product i have which is a magnificent change i might add - but i love the prop effects.. Waiting 6 weeks on Cyp? I had gained shape and size on the prop (water most likely but all i need psychologically in the gym) within a couple days.
Found my test of choice.

As for OP.. it has been covered plenty - read the profiles and choose IMO. But if i were to help at all:

Sust needs injecting EOD at least and i would inject ED.
IF that is palatable to you, then it will work faster than the Enanthate and SHOULD bring the same, albeit slightly dryer gains. (With the same identical diet and human and work, etc. etc..)

I do find that Cyp (my experience hasn't been with Enanthate but i am confident that this experience translates) leads to quite a lot of water and fat on a fairly sloppy bulk diet - when compared to a deca cycle for example (as of course a sloppy diet increases fat and water in general!)


;)


I'd add that if your going to go the route of ED injects just find some prop. Generally it is cheaper than Sustanon or Enanthate from my experience.

Many people are needlephobes and want to inject as less as possible. I think I'm sick as I look forward to my shots :P lol.

Yea Brook I'm very happy with how my first week has gone in my cycle. I very much enjoy the DARK side ;) I envy the prop you got if it is from the quality human grade stuff your friends uncle sales. (not sure if it is or not?) ;D

DG

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bullman08
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I cant do ED injects due to my work, flying 3-4 days a week. Always home on the weekeds tho, so i guess i have to go with test E. Should i take adex from the start or use it when needed?

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Dirty Gerdy
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bullman08 wrote:
I cant do ED injects due to my work, flying 3-4 days a week. Always home on the weekeds tho, so i guess i have to go with test E. Should i take adex from the start or use it when needed?


My personal belief is to take it from the start at very low doses and then increase when needed. I believe in taking adex to 'prevent' sides instead of just take it when you get sides. Some prefer to take nothing but the gear when on cycle. I'd rather never get sides...know what I mean? So this is why I choose .25mg ED or EOD to start and adjust according to any potential sides.

I'd suggest something like this, without knowing your stats, etc tho.

week 1-12 Test E 500mg/week shot E3D

Week 1-4 Dbol 30-50mg/ED (some run the Dbol in the middle of the cycle to get the full benefits of Test and Dbol, being that Test E seems to take several weeks before it 'kicks' in)

Week 1-12 Adex starting .25mg ED to EOD depending on preference and then bumped from their if any sides develop

PCT: Stasis and Taper that is outlined in the stickies.

I think I got that right, I'm sure if anybody has any other preferences or I made a mistake in there they will correct my error.

This is something a friend of mine is planning on starting up soon except he is planning on using an Anadrol/winny combo instead of Dbol.

DG

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SwD
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What about starting a cycle with Sust and then switching to Test E?

The reasoning is that Sust has some fast acting esters in there so you'll get the kick faster. And the long esters sould help make the switch to Test E pretty smooth.

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bullman08
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All gear on hand except the adex, adex will arrive in 4 weeks, what tou guys think, start or wait?, I want to start the cycle now and finish it by feb. good or bad?


thx

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bushidobadboy
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bullman08 wrote:
I found few stats stating that sus is better in keeping gains.

THX


Then you found some solid gold BS my friend. There is ZERO physiological reason (that I can see) as to why any one ofrm of test might possibly be better or worse for 'keepable gains'. Unless the long decanoate ester in the sust was masking the post cycle muscle loss.

Anyway, since it will take a couple of weeks for test enanthate to build up in your system, I don't see a reason to use adex until that time is at hand.

BBB

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Agon
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bullman08 wrote:
All gear on hand except the adex, adex will arrive in 4 weeks, what tou guys think, start or wait?, I want to start the cycle now and finish it by feb. good or bad?


thx


You better wait unless you wanna risk getting some nice perky ones

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W.H.B.
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I'm always perplexed by people's fascination with Sustanon or similar blends. I'm not sure why it has such popularity, other than the fact it is available as pharma grade. If I'm going to shoot everyday, which I think Sustanon should be, I would just use prop.

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xXDevilDogXx
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Agreed, Prop would be my choice over Sust any day.

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bullman08
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what else could i substitute adex just in case? and what dosages?

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Brook
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Hows about more arimidex? Order some more (its only like $40-70) that will arrive next week!

Then stock the other slow shit for next time.

Brook

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bullman08
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when is the best time to take dbod?

morning?
after a meal or before?
spaced through the day?
what would be the choice of liquid to chase it down with?

what elese as far as supplements is recommended besides milk thistle, fish oil?


thx

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Dynamo Hum
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I took one 10mg tab with my 3 major meals. Breakfast, lunch, and supper. That worked out quite well for me. Water is fine to assist in swallowing.

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bullman08
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should dbol be started gradually

exmpl.
day1- 10mg
day2 15mg
day3 20mg and so on until 30mg???


or just start it at the set dose from day one? 30mg-35mg /d





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JIMAKOSGIAN
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after reading some peoples research and having alot of personal experience at this mater my opinion is to start gradualy from 10mg as outlined above and reach your desirable limit also try adding some grapefruit juice it is widely spread that taking orals with grapefruit juice increases the absroption greatly also dont involve any fats in your meals if you take your dbol together because it is shown that the fats and lipids in foods absorbe a great deal of the drag making it less efective thats something i also noticed on my self!!

i wasnt always dieting properly!!about the enanthate now after using tremendous amounts of it i was up to 1000mg every week thats alot of test for someone doing his 3rd cycle at that time i believe it is a better over all choice considering the job you are in as far as injections are a problem but you should use A.I. about the end of the second week thats when test startts to kick in for good and also there is agreat deal of estro from dbol too both higly aromatizing drags so prevent it of converting to a great deal of the bad stuff(estrogen and derivatives)!!

personaly i have done 3 cycle of test and dbol and i am pretty seek of the high water retention and aromatisation seen in these cycles so this is why i sugest you use ai from the second week with a great focus on dieting!!!

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Brook
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I understand that English is not your first language, but you NEED to insert some punctuation into such sentences as it is near impossible to read the advice you give.

IME it is not necessary to graduate doses upto a max dose with Dbol, i have done in the classic diamond pattern as a newbie, and while the gains were fsabulous, it isnt a necessity and is more a waste of the drug in the earlier weeks of 10-20mg dosing.

I always recommend 30mg dianabol for those using it in their first 3 cycles. I used dbol alone for my first 2 cycles and 30mg is more than enough on all fronts.

Yes, an AI is necessary when using dbol, test or any other AROMATISING drug.

And if someone is using 1000mg of Test a week, any point before they are either 50 lean pounds above their natural limit, or before they have been training whilst chemically assisted for 5 years or so - then they are not using the drug correctly or safely, and with most members here knowing how many of the newbs react to such information it is nothing short of reckless to even mention it here at all.

Brook

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JIMAKOSGIAN
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i actualy never said that using 1000mg of test-e was wise nor i endorsed the use of it at any point in such dosages!!i was unfortunate enough to be totaly uninformed about roids when i first used them thats why i made this great mistake!

The guy who was selling it to me just wanted more money so he just told it was all right to take 1000mg but at the time i dint know any better!!

i also didnt say that he has to go up to 50mg of dbol but he just has to reach HIS limit wich in this case is 30mg!

i apologise if what i said created some confusion i'll try to be more careful and district thanks!!

jmkg

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bullman08
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Join date: Apr 2008
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When is the proper time to use Proviron, during cycle or add it to pct?

also what are the pros and cons when using it?
Good or bad to even use it at all?

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Sust250FLA
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my favorite test is Sust, i have done 250-750mg wk to every 14days. Some guru idiots say u have to inject it every 3/4days just because it has 30mg prop n it. It has short & long esters so HR patients only had to get 1 injection per mth.
That said, u might as well go with the TestE if you r taking dbol wks 1-4, dbol will give u fast start the prop n sust would of. you should have good gains, what was your fist cycle?

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bullman08
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first cycle was simple

wks 1-4 dbol 20mg/d
wks 1-12 test sus 500mg/w

pct clomid only 4 weeks

new proposed cycle

wks 1-2 dbol 30mg/d
wks 3-4 dbol 40mg/d
wks 1-12 test e 500mg/wk
wks 1-11 letro .25mg ed
wks 6-11 proviron 50mg/d

wks 13-16 test E 100mg/wk
wk17 nolva 40mg/d + test e 80mg/wk
wk18 nolva 20mg/d , test e 60mg/wk
wk19 nolva 20mg/d , test e 40mg/wk
wk20 nolva 20mg/d , test e 20mg/wk

just confused about the proviron, too much mixed opinions, please some one clarify.
should it be used from the second week of cycle untill end of cycle or in later weeks like listed above?

thx

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