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Test and Deca Stack
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SpawnXL
Level

Join date: Sep 2006
Location: Ireland
Posts: 9

guys, just a couple of questions to ask regarding starting a Test and Deca stack for the first time.

a bit of backup first i suppose.

Age 23
Weight 205lbs
Height 6"1
Training 5years
Diet - pretty good (i know what i eat- definitley not McDonalds)

I have already tried every "natural" test booster on the market, eg Trib, ZMA etc. This would be my first time trying steroids.

the program I am thinking of taking was recommended by a seasoned bodybuilder who is absolutely HUGE!! he said that i should take the following

Week 1 & 2 250mg Test and 200mg Deca
Week 3 - 5 500mg Test and 400mg Deca
Week 6 - 8 250mg Test and 200mg Deca

oh ya and its Test enanthate/norma.

my first question is do you think this is a good program to start out on for the first time.

2nd, im very worried about the Gyno shit. are the quantities above sufficient to get gyno?? ive researched this alot and ive heard that gyno is possible but only with high amounts of test??

any help would be most appreciated.

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assbuster
Level 1

Join date: Mar 2005
Location: Nevada, USA
Posts: 200

Test is very androgenic and can cause gyno even in mild doses as you are thinking of taking. I recommend you take 20mg Novadex ED while on this cycle. Some guys can get away with not taking it, but you never know if you're one of them. Don't risk having to wear a bra or having breast surgery use the Novadex. Gyno is easy and cheap to prevent but painful, embarassing and painful to get rid of.

Otherwise the cycle your friend recommends sounds good and you should see good gains as long as you train hard, eat clean and eat big with at least 1.5 grams protein/lb body weight per day.

Good luck.

A.B.

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RoidEnthusiast
Level

Join date: Jun 2006
Location:
Posts: 102

Before everyone else tears into you, yes gyno is possible and you certainly don't need "high" levels to get it. Better read up more on that and how to prevent it. Also, I'd personally recommend you stay far away from deca if you like your cock and/or fear gyno. Use EQ instead. Again, you can find out why with a little more reading.

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juice20jd
Level

Join date: Dec 2003
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 999

SpawnXL wrote:
guys, just a couple of questions to ask regarding starting a Test and Deca stack for the first time.

a bit of backup first i suppose.

Age 23
Weight 205lbs
Height 6"1
Training 5years
Diet - pretty good (i know what i eat- definitley not McDonalds)

I have already tried every "natural" test booster on the market, eg Trib, ZMA etc. This would be my first time trying steroids.

the program I am thinking of taking was recommended by a seasoned bodybuilder who is absolutely HUGE!! he said that i should take the following

Week 1 & 2 250mg Test and 200mg Deca
Week 3 - 5 500mg Test and 400mg Deca
Week 6 - 8 250mg Test and 200mg Deca

oh ya and its Test enanthate/norma.

my first question is do you think this is a good program to start out on for the first time.

2nd, im very worried about the Gyno shit. are the quantities above sufficient to get gyno?? ive researched this alot and ive heard that gyno is possible but only with high amounts of test??

any help would be most appreciated.


first of all, don't ramp your doses like that.

and for a first cycle...why not just run test enan @ 500 mg/week for 10-12 weeks?

if you really want to have the deca in there:
week 1-10: 500 mg test, 400 mg deca
week 11-12: 500 mg test

any plans to run an AI during? or at least have something on hand? what about your post cycle therapy?

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assbuster
Level 1

Join date: Mar 2005
Location: Nevada, USA
Posts: 200

RoidEnthusiast wrote:
I'd personally recommend you stay far away from deca if you like your cock and/or fear gyno.


I have no idea where you got that information from, but Deca is very mildly androgenic, Test is very androgenic the two compliment each other fine. The synergy between them will make your musculature look big and hard, espcially if you take the 20 mg Nolvadex ED to prevent the estrogen backlash.

As far as Deca-dick goes it is rare and usually occurs in Deca only cycles greater than 400mg/wk and/or cycles longer than 16 weeks.

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infin|ty
Level 3

Join date: Jul 2003
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 380

In my opinion the perfect first cycle is Test E @ 500mg/week. I ran mine for 10 weeks but in hindsight that was too short and I cut myself off from some potential gains. I'd run it 12 weeks.

No sense pumping yourself full of chemicals for the first time. You have years to get crazy with stacks if you want, let your first be simple.

It also makes it easier to combat things like gyno and other issues if they arise cause you can easily pinpoint the chemical causing it.

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SpawnXL
Level

Join date: Sep 2006
Location: Ireland
Posts: 9



first of all, don't ramp your doses like that.

and for a first cycle...why not just run test enan @ 500 mg/week for 10-12 weeks?

if you really want to have the deca in there:
week 1-10: 500 mg test, 400 mg deca
week 11-12: 500 mg test

any plans to run an AI during? or at least have something on hand? what about your post cycle therapy?




i'd rather stick with a shorter cycle (8 weeks max) for my first time so i can see how my body reacts. For Shorter cycles i have heard that Arimidex and Clomid would be good for PCT's?

any ideas on these?

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SpawnXL
Level

Join date: Sep 2006
Location: Ireland
Posts: 9

assbuster wrote:
RoidEnthusiast wrote:
I'd personally recommend you stay far away from deca if you like your cock and/or fear gyno.

I have no idea where you got that information from, but Deca is very mildly androgenic, Test is very androgenic the two compliment each other fine. The synergy between them will make your musculature look big and hard, espcially if you take the 20 mg Nolvadex ED to prevent the estrogen backlash.

As far as Deca-dick goes it is rare and usually occurs in Deca only cycles greater than 400mg/wk and/or cycles longer than 16 weeks.



Ya, Nolvadex seems to be pretty common to use as an EI. do you think id need a test stimulant for post cycle to get my t-levels back up? or would i need it at all if im only going on the clycle for 8weeks

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assbuster
Level 1

Join date: Mar 2005
Location: Nevada, USA
Posts: 200

SpawnXL wrote:
assbuster wrote:
RoidEnthusiast wrote:
I'd personally recommend you stay far away from deca if you like your cock and/or fear gyno.

I have no idea where you got that information from, but Deca is very mildly androgenic, Test is very androgenic the two compliment each other fine. The synergy between them will make your musculature look big and hard, espcially if you take the 20 mg Nolvadex ED to prevent the estrogen backlash.

As far as Deca-dick goes it is rare and usually occurs in Deca only cycles greater than 400mg/wk and/or cycles longer than 16 weeks.


Ya, Nolvadex seems to be pretty common to use as an EI. do you think id need a test stimulant for post cycle to get my t-levels back up? or would i need it at all if im only going on the clycle for 8weeks


I know I'll proabbaly get crap for this but I use the Nolvadex for about 2 weeks PCT and then give Alpha Male a go after that to get my natural test levels up.

The half life on Test E is about 2 weeks and Deca is around 18 days. I wouldn't be too concerned about the half life of Deca because it's not very androgenic and shouldn't keep you shut down for too long, especially at the low doses you're taking.

Give the Novaldex that long to control the estrogen build up from the Test then start the Alpha Male after two weeks. Your natural test will still be shut down prior to then so what's the point of wasting the Alpha Male in the first 2 weeks?

I've found the combination works pretty well for getting your natural test back.

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RoidEnthusiast
Level

Join date: Jun 2006
Location:
Posts: 102

You're getting shit information from assbuster about deca. Deca dick is far from "rare", and certainly doesn't take a 16 week cycle like he said. 400mg per week is plenty to fuck up your cock.I know first hand. It's also suppressive as hell since it effects 3 different receptors in your hypothalmus- test, estrogen and progesterone. You cannot block the conversion of nandrolone to norestrogen with an anti-e. Anyone who tells you so is full of shit.

It is not converted via the aromatase enzyme like test is. Norestrogen is a "weaker" estrogen, but can still cause gyno none the less. The progestin effects may add into that as well, but the prolactin you'll be secreting is the real root of the deca dick. Sure taking test during the cycle will mask the effect. Wait till your cycle is over and enjoy your limp noodle. Limp for weeks mind you since deca stays in your system longer than any other steroid- suppressing you, and keeping your dick nice and limp.

Deca is no where near as problem free as some people make it sound, and you need to hear both sides of the story before you make your decision. Hell, google around and read some first hand deca experiences if you think my own experience is a fluke.

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biscuite
Level

Join date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 378

RE has some good points bro. but.....I would take arimi @ 5mg e/d while on the decca. Stop pinning the decca 4 weeks before you come of the test. Some say 2 weeks I like 4 weeks. I try to avoid HCG as much as I can but it won't kill you to use some if you really need it. I carry out my PCT way longer than the average person as it makes all the diff in the world for me. keep us posted man and we'll get you through it.

bis

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pkradgreek
Level 100

Join date: Oct 2002
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 1344

couple of points, maybe i'm right in some or all:

1) 400mg deca, 250mg test is more then enough for a person his body weight
2) bromocriptine for the anti-prolactin effects
3) 6 weeks is enough time to be on consedering the long half lives of both esters.
4) double dose the first injection for initial high enough andro levels
5) start pct 3 weeks after the last dose considering the blood levels have to come back down, pct should last for 4 weeks
6) start anabolic booster like Carbolin 19-19 and methoxy 2 weeks after the last dose and slowly start decreasing dietery calories but keep protein intake high.

laters pk

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bushidobadboy
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2004
Location: Wales
Posts: 15565

There seems to be some odd info being thrown around here IMO.

As Juice said, don't pyramid the dose, there is no need. BUT also, don't frontload as PK suggests as this cannjack up your SHBG levels, binding up more AAS after the frontload period, causing a 'slump' in anabolic/androgenic effects.

The OP says he wants to stay on for a max of 8 weeks, and this is probably a good call, BUT not with deca. The effect won't kick in for 4-6 weeks, and then the suppression won't be gone for anothe 4-6 weeks after the cycle is over.

Deca is HIGHLY suppressive IMO, and not worth the grief later on. There are other compounds that are less problematic, like EQ, primo etc. BUT for a first cycle, why not just run test and a'dex, then you have no real risk of gyno, plus you are trialing just 1 drug. 500mg/wk test and 0.25 mg a'dex ED or EOD is a lovely little cycle, and won't fuck you up later on...

Bromocriptine would help to suppress prolactin, BUT personally it makes me feel quite nauseous. In fact I have some to give away so PM me if you want it, anyone.


bushy

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SpawnXL
Level

Join date: Sep 2006
Location: Ireland
Posts: 9

cheers guys. im gonna go try and see if what i can get to help prevent the gyno and help restore my natural test levels afterwards. hopefully either Nolva or Arimi. i live in ireland so im not too sure how hard it would be to buy stuff on the net and get it into the country without getting caught at customs.

as its my first time too, i like the idea of just taking one drug (test) and see how i react to it.

either way, i aint starting until i can get the nolva or arimi.

cheers guys, ill let ye know what happens over the coming days!!

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bushidobadboy
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2004
Location: Wales
Posts: 15565

SpawnXL wrote:
i live in ireland so im not too sure how hard it would be to buy stuff on the net and get it into the country without getting caught at customs.



Well living in the UK, its piss easy to get gear through. Which part of Ireland do you live in? NI, or Eire.

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pkradgreek
Level 100

Join date: Oct 2002
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 1344

bushidobadboy wrote:
As Juice said, don't pyramid the dose, there is no need. BUT also, don't frontload as PK suggests as this cannjack up your SHBG levels, binding up more AAS after the frontload period, causing a 'slump' in anabolic/androgenic effects.

The OP says he wants to stay on for a max of 8 weeks, and this is probably a good call, BUT not with deca. The effect won't kick in for 4-6 weeks, and then the suppression won't be gone for anothe 4-6 weeks after the cycle is over.
bushy


so SHBG ramps up linearly with the amount of androgen? At what level of androgen would you need to take, if even possible, inorder to overcome this side effect? at what level of androgen is the ramp up too high? would not ramping up SHBG towards the end of the cycle if it is linearly affected by the amount of androgen even further prolong recovery?

what effect are you talking about in regards to having to wait 4-6 weeks? increased protein synthesis? increased general bodyweight? are you basing this on the half-life of each androgen? laters pk

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SpawnXL
Level

Join date: Sep 2006
Location: Ireland
Posts: 9

bushidobadboy wrote:
SpawnXL wrote:
i live in ireland so im not too sure how hard it would be to buy stuff on the net and get it into the country without getting caught at customs.



Well living in the UK, its piss easy to get gear through. Which part of Ireland do you live in? NI, or Eire.



live in the south,

if anyone knows any reputable sites where i can get anything, let me know. id hope to be taking Nolvadex and not something like Vitamin C!!!!

ive checked out Nolva and it was 60Eur (?40) for 30tabs. Astrazeneca Nolvadex. on www.drugstore.tv

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assbuster
Level 1

Join date: Mar 2005
Location: Nevada, USA
Posts: 200

See SpawnXL like I said I knew I'd catch hell for my second post. Rather than argue and plead my case and defend my positions I'll just say this is all based on opinion. Like the old saying, "Opinions are like assholes and everyone has one".

And in the case of this site it seems there are plenty of assholes around (no names mentioned but you all know who you are).

I hang out at several other boards too and I have to say this place has more than it's share of argumentative, nit-pickers and contrarians.

This thread I'm sure has confused you more than helped you. Bottom line is this is all an experiment. There are guidelines and rules of thumbs but the doses, gear and length of your cycle are not extreme by any means and if you use a good anti-e you should not have any serious complications and nothing long-term.

If you experience any negative sides just stop the cycle and re-evaluate things. Everyone responds differently to gear. Remember though there are no lethal doses of gear so you are in more danger using prescription and OTC meds than any steroid there is. Basiclly the shit won't kill you.

With regards to the Deca-Dick crap; I have family, friends and myself that have used Deca off and on for over 25 yrs with no negative sides whatsoever. I have the libido of a 20 yr old and I'm 48. So take that for what it's worth.

Good luck

A.B.

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juice20jd
Level

Join date: Dec 2003
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 999

I'll reinforce my previous piece of advice.......

Test enan @ 500 mg/week for 10-12 weeks. Add in a-dex @ 0.5 mg EOD. Done. If you want to go only 8 weeks, then do so....you'll probably have the gains you are looking for then anyway. keep in mind, that with the half life of enan, you'll still be "on" for 2-3 weeks after you last shot.

week 1-8: Test E 500 mg/week (mon & thurs shots)
week 1-8: a-dex 0.5 mg EOD
week 9-10: a-dex 0.25 mg EOD

There are too many conflicting schools of thought about PCT. you can do a traditional one, or a taper, or a combo of both. research a little and get some advice before you choose one.

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kickbxer
Level

Join date: Jan 2006
Location: California, USA
Posts: 109

juice20jd wrote:
SpawnXL wrote:
guys, just a couple of questions to ask regarding starting a Test and Deca stack for the first time.

a bit of backup first i suppose.

Age 23
Weight 205lbs
Height 6"1
Training 5years
Diet - pretty good (i know what i eat- definitley not McDonalds)

I have already tried every "natural" test booster on the market, eg Trib, ZMA etc. This would be my first time trying steroids.

the program I am thinking of taking was recommended by a seasoned bodybuilder who is absolutely HUGE!! he said that i should take the following

Week 1 & 2 250mg Test and 200mg Deca
Week 3 - 5 500mg Test and 400mg Deca
Week 6 - 8 250mg Test and 200mg Deca

oh ya and its Test enanthate/norma.

my first question is do you think this is a good program to start out on for the first time.

2nd, im very worried about the Gyno shit. are the quantities above sufficient to get gyno?? ive researched this alot and ive heard that gyno is possible but only with high amounts of test??

any help would be most appreciated.

first of all, don't ramp your doses like that.

and for a first cycle...why not just run test enan @ 500 mg/week for 10-12 weeks?

if you really want to have the deca in there:
week 1-10: 500 mg test, 400 mg deca
week 11-12: 500 mg test

any plans to run an AI during? or at least have something on hand? what about your post cycle therapy?



i agree with this. my friend recently did something similair and got great strength and mass results. I wouldnt worry about the "deca dick" much with 400 mg deca since i know many people that did that does and no one with problems. Read up on how deca suppress your hpta for a long time after use.

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bushidobadboy
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2004
Location: Wales
Posts: 15565

pkradgreek wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
As Juice said, don't pyramid the dose, there is no need. BUT also, don't frontload as PK suggests as this cannjack up your SHBG levels, binding up more AAS after the frontload period, causing a 'slump' in anabolic/androgenic effects.

The OP says he wants to stay on for a max of 8 weeks, and this is probably a good call, BUT not with deca. The effect won't kick in for 4-6 weeks, and then the suppression won't be gone for anothe 4-6 weeks after the cycle is over.
bushy

so SHBG ramps up linearly with the amount of androgen? At what level of androgen would you need to take, if even possible, inorder to overcome this side effect? at what level of androgen is the ramp up too high? would not ramping up SHBG towards the end of the cycle if it is linearly affected by the amount of androgen even further prolong recovery?

what effect are you talking about in regards to having to wait 4-6 weeks? increased protein synthesis? increased general bodyweight? are you basing this on the half-life of each androgen? laters pk


Most people concerned about SHBG will take either proviron, winstrol, or masteron. SHBG may go up linearly, but I have no definite info on this, sorry. It would make sense to me that it would rise in direct proportion to androgen levels though.

Some people take prov, winny etc at the end of a cycle so that more of the diminishing test will be unbound, so that it can exert its effects on skeletal muscle. As you point out, having elevated SHBG at the end of a cycle will have negative efects on libido etc further into PCT. However, I don't know how long SHBG levels might be expected to remain elevated for.

With regard to waiting 4-6 weeks to see effects from deca, I am referring to all their effects on skeletal muscle, ie improved recovery etc. This is based on experience, as well as on information relating to the half-life of deca.


bushy

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bushidobadboy
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2004
Location: Wales
Posts: 15565

Once again. is seems that there are 2 distinct schools of thought regarding deca.

On the one hand we have those who are fine on the stuff, and who know others who use the drug with no negative effects.

Then we have those (me included), who hate the stuff due to its negative effects on libido, and its highly-suppressive effects in general(in certain users at least).

I suppose that in the end it comes down to this: Try it for yourself and draw your own conclusions...



bushy

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bushidobadboy
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2004
Location: Wales
Posts: 15565

Oh yeah, I'm not ripping on anyone, but if you doubt that it is possible to mess yourself up with deca, or if you don't believe that 'deca-dick' is a potential reality, then check out the 'Newb testosterone question' thread...



bushy

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Anthony Roberts
Level

Join date: Aug 2005
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 1405

SpawnXL wrote:
guys, just a couple of questions to ask regarding starting a Test and Deca stack for the first time.

any help would be most appreciated.


Check out the profiles on those 2 drugs on my website (I have 2 for each):

http://www.anthony-roberts.com

I think after you've read those profiles, you may come back here with some different questions.

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porcelinefloor
Level

Join date: Aug 2006
Location:
Posts: 19

your website anthony is an excellent help . cheers

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