Building High-Performance Muscle™
Steroids
 
Steroid Newbie Cycle Planning
 

Aeon
Level

Join date: Sep 2011
Location:
Posts: 59

Oh I forgot to add, you should look more into when to take PCT. I've read that you should take PCT around 21 days after sustanon (3 weeks). Not two weeks because Sustanon stays in your system longer than steroids such as Testosterone Enanthate. I'm still in the learning phase myself, but if I were you, I'd read a bit more into that and make sure you are taking the PCT at the right time!

How much have your lifts increased by?

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joey g
Level 1

Join date: Sep 2011
Location: California, USA
Posts: 7

ya i was thinking 3 weeks was about the right time to start...thanks!

And my lifts have increased a little so far, but nothing spectacular. I am right about at the strongest i have ever been but i havent broken any personal records yet...Hopefully this will change in the next week or two.

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conservativedog
Level

Join date: May 2010
Location:
Posts: 1690

Griver5 wrote:
been training since 80's

I want to get as strong as possible while gaining as little weight as possible.

I'm thinking

1st week - Winnie 10mg E.D, Deca 200mg once a week
2nd week - Winnie 20mg E.D Deca 200mg once a week
3nd week - Winnie 30mg E.D Deca 200mg once a week
4nd week - Winnie 40mg E.D Deca 200mg once a week
5nd week - Winnie 40mg E.D Deca 200mg once a week
6nd week - Winnie 30mg E.D Deca 200mg once a week
7nd week - Winnie 20mg E.D Deca 200mg once a week
8nd week - Winnie 10mg E.D. Deca 200mg once a week
9th week - Noveldex 20mg,proviron 20 mg E.D.
10th week- Noveldex 20mg,proviron 20 mg E.D.

What do you think?




I'm sick of trying to find where to get good price on arimidex or aromasin or any anti-aromatase. Can anyone give a hint on where to look on google. I see plenty of what appear to be rip off sites with prices around $199.

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conservativedog
Level

Join date: May 2010
Location:
Posts: 1690

conservativedog wrote:
Griver5 wrote:
been training since 80's

I want to get as strong as possible while gaining as little weight as possible.

I'm thinking

1st week - Winnie 10mg E.D, Deca 200mg once a week
2nd week - Winnie 20mg E.D Deca 200mg once a week
3nd week - Winnie 30mg E.D Deca 200mg once a week
4nd week - Winnie 40mg E.D Deca 200mg once a week
5nd week - Winnie 40mg E.D Deca 200mg once a week
6nd week - Winnie 30mg E.D Deca 200mg once a week
7nd week - Winnie 20mg E.D Deca 200mg once a week
8nd week - Winnie 10mg E.D. Deca 200mg once a week
9th week - Noveldex 20mg,proviron 20 mg E.D.
10th week- Noveldex 20mg,proviron 20 mg E.D.

What do you think?




I'm sure this is a dumb question but I'm so sick of trying to find where to get arimidex or noveldex or any anti-aromatase. Can anyone just give a hint on where to look on google. I see plenty of what appear to be rip off sites with prices around $399. Phooeey on those sites.


By the way does anyone else feel like they've been kicked in the nutts by the medical field when Chaz Bono or any number of females decide they wish to become men & are evidently easily prescribed testosterone. Whatever is needed to accomplish a sex change they evidently get it all.

Why in god's name is that permissible and if a male is on replacement hormone therapy they make you jump through a 100 hoops to insure you're not going to become too aggressive or start posing for bodybuilding shows. I'm sick of the double standard & political correctness when it comes to male vs female hormone therapy and the ignorance of so many doctors about testosterone levels.

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shawwwwwww
Level

Join date: Oct 2011
Location:
Posts: 1

I don't understand why these forums are supposed to help people and there are constant posts about don't PM me and ask me whatever. Dang, everybody gotta start somewhere. It trips me out when people get what they need and then forget about the days when they were struggling to get started.

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moogweasel
Level 4

Join date: Jul 2008
Location:
Posts: 225

FuriousGeorge wrote:
I often get asked what is the best cycle for someone that needs to keep their usage on the DL because of work or family or whatever...

Basically my recommendation is usually something like:

1) 2 week cycles (aka 2 on 3 off, 2 on 4 off)

How
Use a short cycle with short acting compounds (test prop, NPP, Tren Ace, Mast Prop, and orals) that way you will get a small fluctuation in weight (maybe 10-15 pounds at the peak of the cycle over your regular weight).

Dose
You can use a fairly high dose with few sides because of the short duration but you still want to keep things reasonable so you don't get too bloated...somewhere between about 500mg-1400mg/w total androgens is probably the best area to be in.

If using orals something like Anavar or Oral Turinabol which has less water retention would be a good option or Anadrol stacked with Winstrol at a low dose. DBol is def not something that flies under the radar well because of the high degree of water retention.

If you want to keep bloat to a minimum it would be wise to use a low dose of Adex/Letro/ASin to reduce estrogen. Nolva would be a decent option if no AIs are available as it will also help to drop some water. High dose vitamin C will also flush you out.

Keeping low carb also helps so running a diet high in protein and fat is probably the way to go if you wanna stay dry.

Pros
this way you will get some assistance with breaking through plateaus and overall you should steadily be slowly gaining weight through the year. You should have minimal shutdown after two weeks of use and may also see a bit of a rebound in test between cycles.

You will of course lose some weight between cycles but this is mostly water, glucose, etc that is increased when you are "ON" which will always go after. Overall if you can maintain a few pounds from each cycle it will seem like you are just steadily getting bigger and leaner over time.

It is fairly easy to find two weeks when you can really dial it in and make big gains. As long as you time your cycles well and really focus on eating, sleeping, and lifting during those two weeks you should see good results.

Cons
You are never gonna make massive gains on a single cycle but you weren't wanting to do that anyway. There will be no dramatic change in physique, just steady progress.

With short acting injectables you are gonna have to inject a lot which, if you are trying to hide your use from family, is difficult (unless you live alone).

I am just finishing an every day injection plan where I would simply fill my pins for about 4-5 days when I got a chance and put them in a side pocket in my shaving kit (along with some alcohol swabs) and I would inject in the bathroom after showering but still this is sometimes difficult to do.

This isn't an issue with oral only cycles but with a high dose of orals you will usually get a lot of water retention so it isn't really a good option.

Pinning every day or every other day kinda sucks but it's just 2 weeks so not terrible.

Example 1 (test based)
W 1-2 Test Prop 75mg ED
W 1-2 NPP 37mg ED
W 1-2 Anavar 60mg ED
W 1-2 Adex 0.25mg EOD
W 3-4 Nolva 20mg ED

Example 2 (test based)
W 1-2 Test Prop 75mg ED
W 1-2 Tren Ace 37mg ED
W 1-2 Mast Prop 37mg ED
W 1-2 Letro 0.25mg ED
W 3-4 Nolva 20mg ED

Example 3 (non test based)
W 1-2 Tren Ace 75mg ED
W 1-2 Anadrol 50mg ED
W 1-2 Winstrol 25mg ED
W 1-2 HCG 100iu EOD
W 3-4 Nolva 20mg ED


2) TRT

How
Another great option if you are finished having kids is to use very slow acting test cyp continuously (under medical supervision) so that you are steadily getting stronger, bigger, and leaner. You can throw in a little extra from time to time when you want to but generally you would just run on test and a low dose of AI to keep estrogen in check.

In terms of actually getting a script for test you need to find a doc that is willing (there is an article on here called "your doctor, your dealer" that goes over this.

If you don't think you can get TRT then you can just buy the same stuff and run it on your own as many do.

Dose
Your doc will tweak your dose based on your bloodwork but the usual TRT dose is something like 100-200mg/w test cyp with 0.25mg E3D of adex. Ideal would be 100mg injected 2x/w. If you care about your ball size then you can run some HCG at a low dose (say 100iu EOD).

If you are running it on your own then something like 150mg test cyp 2x/w with 0.25mg E3D adex and 100iu EOD HCG if you want.
From there you can basically just run whatever else you want on top of it (maybe a bit of deca or primo) or you can just run short/blast cycles between blood tests and use the TRT as a cruise to maintain.

Pros
You get pharma grade test, adex, etc.
It is prescribed by your doc so if someone does find out then you have a very good reason for being on (you have a medical condition remember, which is none of their fucking business and fully legal).

It's medically supervised so you can monitor your health closely and make adjustments with the help of you doc accordingly.
The physique transformation will be slow but as long as you are a dedicated lifter it should be continual. Again this is the point if you are trying to fly under the radar.

Cons
This is obviously a very long term commitment. Probably permenant. You can come off after many years on but not very many people do because they are very unhappy when they do. SO you should be very sure about it before going after this approach.

If you are just running it on your own, short term (say 6-9 months), then a taper is probably the best way to come off.
Again there won't be a quick dramatic physique change but thats the point. The long term change can be very dramatic without raising many questions.

Example 1 (TRT)
W 1-x Test Cyp 150mg 2x/w
W 1-x Adex 0.25mg E3D
On top of this you can add any short cycle like those shown above or just layer on another compound to be run with the test like say 200mg/w of Deca or 400mg/w of Primo or 200mg/w of Masteron.

Hi

Just a little clarification required please:

2 week cycles (aka 2 on 3 off, 2 on 4 off)Either example 1 or 2 (tes based)
- would I be correct in assuming that after '4 off' one could begin the cycle again?

Thanks

moog
-

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Dante Angelus
Level

Join date: Mar 2012
Location:
Posts: 7

5'9, 195 lbs, 26 years old, 16% bf - trained for 6 years

Just a quick critique of this cycle - it's short term till I get my injectables in september

1-6 wks Oral Turnibol @ 40mg ED with 40 mg Var ED (I have read in a number of sources of good results obtained with this mix)
1-6 Arimadex @ 0.5mg ED (to counter the rising EST)
4-6 Proviron @ 20mg EOD (maintain libdo and hardening look but worried about pt hair loss)

LIV52 for liver protection ED

PCT (Even though OT is relatively mild, accounts I've read of first cycle dictate a slightly longer one if better)
Wk 1 60mg Nolva ED
Wk 2 40mg Nolva ED
Wk 3 20mg Nolva ED

Thoughts? Should I add some HCG in there? Is the proviron necessary?

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BigSkwatta
Level

Join date: Dec 2010
Location:
Posts: 799

Dante Angelus wrote:
5'9, 195 lbs, 26 years old, 16% bf - trained for 6 years

Just a quick critique of this cycle - it's short term till I get my injectables in september

1-6 wks Oral Turnibol @ 40mg ED with 40 mg Var ED (I have read in a number of sources of good results obtained with this mix)
1-6 Arimadex @ 0.5mg ED (to counter the rising EST)
4-6 Proviron @ 20mg EOD (maintain libdo and hardening look but worried about pt hair loss)

LIV52 for liver protection ED

PCT (Even though OT is relatively mild, accounts I've read of first cycle dictate a slightly longer one if better)
Wk 1 60mg Nolva ED
Wk 2 40mg Nolva ED
Wk 3 20mg Nolva ED

Thoughts? Should I add some HCG in there? Is the proviron necessary?


I just buy more gear instead of liver protection, it doesn't do a lot.

Also, the 60mg for a whole week of nolva is pretty high. If I was going to use 60mg in any given day, I would just go 60mg the first day to raise blood levels, then go to 40 for 2 weeks, then 20 for 2 weeks, or even just 20mg for 4 weeks.

40/40/20/20 is the standard though, why not just use that....

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Dante Angelus
Level

Join date: Mar 2012
Location:
Posts: 7

Thanks Big, some people swear by the liver protection so I figured hey :)

Thoughts on the proviron - dosage and when i'm taking it wise?

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271813
Level

Join date: Jul 2012
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 3

how does this look for my first t cyponate cycle


Weeks 1-10:
*500mg testosterone per week
*1 quarter tablet of Fincar per day (1.25mg)
*1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every other day (0.25mg)
*1 tablet of clomid every other day (50mg)
*320mg of standardized Saw Palmetto Extract per day

Week 11:
*300mg testosterone per week
*1 quarter tablet of Fincar per day (1.25mg)
*1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every other day (0.25mg)
*1 tablet of clomid every other day (50mg)
*320mg of standardized Saw Palmetto Extract per day

Week 12:
*200mg testosterone per week
*1 quarter tablet of Fincar per day (1.25mg)
*1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every other day (0.25mg)
*1 tablet of clomid every day (50mg)
*320mg of standardized Saw Palmetto Extract per day

Week 13:
*1.25mg of finasteride per day
*.25mg of Arimidex every other day
*100mg of clomid every day

Week 14:
*1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every 3rd day (0.25mg)
*50mg of clomid every day

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BD123
Level 3

Join date: Jun 2012
Location:
Posts: 32

conservativedog wrote:
conservativedog wrote:
Griver5 wrote:
been training since 80's

I want to get as strong as possible while gaining as little weight as possible.

I'm thinking

1st week - Winnie 10mg E.D, Deca 200mg once a week
2nd week - Winnie 20mg E.D Deca 200mg once a week
3nd week - Winnie 30mg E.D Deca 200mg once a week
4nd week - Winnie 40mg E.D Deca 200mg once a week
5nd week - Winnie 40mg E.D Deca 200mg once a week
6nd week - Winnie 30mg E.D Deca 200mg once a week
7nd week - Winnie 20mg E.D Deca 200mg once a week
8nd week - Winnie 10mg E.D. Deca 200mg once a week
9th week - Noveldex 20mg,proviron 20 mg E.D.
10th week- Noveldex 20mg,proviron 20 mg E.D.

What do you think?




I'm sure this is a dumb question but I'm so sick of trying to find where to get arimidex or noveldex or any anti-aromatase. Can anyone just give a hint on where to look on google. I see plenty of what appear to be rip off sites with prices around $399. Phooeey on those sites.


By the way does anyone else feel like they've been kicked in the nutts by the medical field when Chaz Bono or any number of females decide they wish to become men & are evidently easily prescribed testosterone. Whatever is needed to accomplish a sex change they evidently get it all.

Why in god's name is that permissible and if a male is on replacement hormone therapy they make you jump through a 100 hoops to insure you're not going to become too aggressive or start posing for bodybuilding shows. I'm sick of the double standard & political correctness when it comes to male vs female hormone therapy and the ignorance of so many doctors about testosterone levels.


Seriously... So you're a man in a woman's body? Well I'm a greek god in the body of a mortal, help me out doc. Great thread though, it really is a complicated science and they should make it safer by allowing doctors free reign to assist with this stuff. Eh just reading out of curiosity anyway, I'm in no way ready for steroids. I'll stick to the Alpha Male LOL.

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Megatron999
Level

Join date: Jan 2008
Location: Finland
Posts: 71

I have planned to do AAS to jump up in weightclass for my sport. Currently I'm 190cm 85kg bf 11-12% with calipers (abdomen measurement 15mm where I hold the majority of bf) and I'm eating around 3000kcal with a 30/25/45 ration. My training maxes ffrom the previous both were 120kg bench, 145kg squat and 170kg deadlift. I am 29 years old and have been training for about 5 years. I'm not that yuong anymore so the gains come painfully slow as natural.

The goal of my first cycle is to add muscle mass so that I would keep 5-7 kg (about 15-20 lbs) after pct. I have limited option of what I can get from my contact, they are limited because he won't sell me dbol woth the price of tbol etc. My options are oral dbol and sustanon 250 and nolvadex for pct.

Cycle,

week 1-8 susta 250 500mg per week split to 250mg two per day
week 1-4 oral dbol 20mg per day split to 10mg two per day
week 9-11 nolvadex 40/40/20

Goal is to be around 90kg at about 8-9% bf within the next 6 months.

p.s. I anyone here from Finland and have trustworthy contacts for future cycles please private message me.

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BUDs
Level

Join date: Sep 2010
Location: California, USA
Posts: 1708

Megatron999 wrote:
I have planned to do AAS to jump up in weightclass for my sport. Currently I'm 190cm 85kg bf 11-12% with calipers (abdomen measurement 15mm where I hold the majority of bf) and I'm eating around 3000kcal with a 30/25/45 ration. My training maxes ffrom the previous both were 120kg bench, 145kg squat and 170kg deadlift. I am 29 years old and have been training for about 5 years. I'm not that yuong anymore so the gains come painfully slow as natural.

The goal of my first cycle is to add muscle mass so that I would keep 5-7 kg (about 15-20 lbs) after pct. I have limited option of what I can get from my contact, they are limited because he won't sell me dbol woth the price of tbol etc. My options are oral dbol and sustanon 250 and nolvadex for pct.

Cycle,

week 1-8 susta 250 500mg per week split to 250mg two per day
week 1-4 oral dbol 20mg per day split to 10mg two per day
week 9-11 nolvadex 40/40/20

Goal is to be around 90kg at about 8-9% bf within the next 6 months.

p.s. I anyone here from Finland and have trustworthy contacts for future cycles please private message me.



Well your not gonna stay very lean with dbol unless you plan to cut after your cycle. Also sust needs to be pinned EOD and you dbol dose is a little low I'd recommend at least 30mg a day. Your PCT should start in week 11 you need to wait 2 weeks after your last pin of sust to start pct and run it for four weeks 40/40/20/20. And no AI? I would highly recommend an AI with these two compounds your running

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Megatron999
Level

Join date: Jan 2008
Location: Finland
Posts: 71

BUDs wrote:
Megatron999 wrote:
I have planned to do AAS to jump up in weightclass for my sport. Currently I'm 190cm 85kg bf 11-12% with calipers (abdomen measurement 15mm where I hold the majority of bf) and I'm eating around 3000kcal with a 30/25/45 ration. My training maxes ffrom the previous both were 120kg bench, 145kg squat and 170kg deadlift. I am 29 years old and have been training for about 5 years. I'm not that yuong anymore so the gains come painfully slow as natural.

The goal of my first cycle is to add muscle mass so that I would keep 5-7 kg (about 15-20 lbs) after pct. I have limited option of what I can get from my contact, they are limited because he won't sell me dbol woth the price of tbol etc. My options are oral dbol and sustanon 250 and nolvadex for pct.

Cycle,

week 1-8 susta 250 500mg per week split to 250mg two per day
week 1-4 oral dbol 20mg per day split to 10mg two per day
week 9-11 nolvadex 40/40/20

Goal is to be around 90kg at about 8-9% bf within the next 6 months.

p.s. I anyone here from Finland and have trustworthy contacts for future cycles please private message me.



Well your not gonna stay very lean with dbol unless you plan to cut after your cycle. Also sust needs to be pinned EOD and you dbol dose is a little low I'd recommend at least 30mg a day. Your PCT should start in week 11 you need to wait 2 weeks after your last pin of sust to start pct and run it for four weeks 40/40/20/20. And no AI? I would highly recommend an AI with these two compounds your running


Check. PCT starts on week 11 or 2 weeks after the last susta injection. I'll bump the dbol up to 30mg.

week 1-8 susta 250 500mg per week EOD
week 1-4 oral dbol 30mg ED
week 11-13 nolvadex 40/40/20 ED

If I can get my hands on Arimidex I would be taking it as AI, ED 0.5mg, or 1mg EOD, but my contact wasn't sure if he could get hold of it.

I have time to cut after the cycle and I have cut multiple times before so I know how my body reacts to it. If I have time I'll do a moderate pace cut and if push comes to showe I'll do a more rapid cut and risk a few punds of lean mass on the way.

And thank you for the tips BUDs.

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BUDs
Level

Join date: Sep 2010
Location: California, USA
Posts: 1708

Megatron999 wrote:
BUDs wrote:
Megatron999 wrote:
I have planned to do AAS to jump up in weightclass for my sport. Currently I'm 190cm 85kg bf 11-12% with calipers (abdomen measurement 15mm where I hold the majority of bf) and I'm eating around 3000kcal with a 30/25/45 ration. My training maxes ffrom the previous both were 120kg bench, 145kg squat and 170kg deadlift. I am 29 years old and have been training for about 5 years. I'm not that yuong anymore so the gains come painfully slow as natural.

The goal of my first cycle is to add muscle mass so that I would keep 5-7 kg (about 15-20 lbs) after pct. I have limited option of what I can get from my contact, they are limited because he won't sell me dbol woth the price of tbol etc. My options are oral dbol and sustanon 250 and nolvadex for pct.

Cycle,

week 1-8 susta 250 500mg per week split to 250mg two per day
week 1-4 oral dbol 20mg per day split to 10mg two per day
week 9-11 nolvadex 40/40/20

Goal is to be around 90kg at about 8-9% bf within the next 6 months.

p.s. I anyone here from Finland and have trustworthy contacts for future cycles please private message me.



Well your not gonna stay very lean with dbol unless you plan to cut after your cycle. Also sust needs to be pinned EOD and you dbol dose is a little low I'd recommend at least 30mg a day. Your PCT should start in week 11 you need to wait 2 weeks after your last pin of sust to start pct and run it for four weeks 40/40/20/20. And no AI? I would highly recommend an AI with these two compounds your running


Check. PCT starts on week 11 or 2 weeks after the last susta injection. I'll bump the dbol up to 30mg.

week 1-8 susta 250 500mg per week EOD
week 1-4 oral dbol 30mg ED
week 11-13 nolvadex 40/40/20 ED

If I can get my hands on Arimidex I would be taking it as AI, ED 0.5mg, or 1mg EOD, but my contact wasn't sure if he could get hold of it.

I have time to cut after the cycle and I have cut multiple times before so I know how my body reacts to it. If I have time I'll do a moderate pace cut and if push comes to showe I'll do a more rapid cut and risk a few punds of lean mass on the way.

And thank you for the tips BUDs.



Definitely try and get an AI, due to the fact that those two compounds do aromatize. There are plenty of palaces that sell "research" adex but that's only if you were doing "research". You might have to play around with the dosing a bit I find .25mg EOD to be perfect while running test and dbol .5 Ed might be too much, but you should always run an AI to prevent sides either adex or aromasin and have some extra Nolva on hand just in case you start having signs of gyno and even letro as a last resort.

Run your pct 4 weeks instead of 3 40/40/20/20

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Megatron999
Level

Join date: Jan 2008
Location: Finland
Posts: 71

BUDs wrote:
Megatron999 wrote:
BUDs wrote:
Megatron999 wrote:
I have planned to do AAS to jump up in weightclass for my sport. Currently I'm 190cm 85kg bf 11-12% with calipers (abdomen measurement 15mm where I hold the majority of bf) and I'm eating around 3000kcal with a 30/25/45 ration. My training maxes ffrom the previous both were 120kg bench, 145kg squat and 170kg deadlift. I am 29 years old and have been training for about 5 years. I'm not that yuong anymore so the gains come painfully slow as natural.

The goal of my first cycle is to add muscle mass so that I would keep 5-7 kg (about 15-20 lbs) after pct. I have limited option of what I can get from my contact, they are limited because he won't sell me dbol woth the price of tbol etc. My options are oral dbol and sustanon 250 and nolvadex for pct.

Cycle,

week 1-8 susta 250 500mg per week split to 250mg two per day
week 1-4 oral dbol 20mg per day split to 10mg two per day
week 9-11 nolvadex 40/40/20

Goal is to be around 90kg at about 8-9% bf within the next 6 months.

p.s. I anyone here from Finland and have trustworthy contacts for future cycles please private message me.



Well your not gonna stay very lean with dbol unless you plan to cut after your cycle. Also sust needs to be pinned EOD and you dbol dose is a little low I'd recommend at least 30mg a day. Your PCT should start in week 11 you need to wait 2 weeks after your last pin of sust to start pct and run it for four weeks 40/40/20/20. And no AI? I would highly recommend an AI with these two compounds your running


Check. PCT starts on week 11 or 2 weeks after the last susta injection. I'll bump the dbol up to 30mg.

week 1-8 susta 250 500mg per week EOD
week 1-4 oral dbol 30mg ED
week 11-13 nolvadex 40/40/20 ED

If I can get my hands on Arimidex I would be taking it as AI, ED 0.5mg, or 1mg EOD, but my contact wasn't sure if he could get hold of it.

I have time to cut after the cycle and I have cut multiple times before so I know how my body reacts to it. If I have time I'll do a moderate pace cut and if push comes to showe I'll do a more rapid cut and risk a few punds of lean mass on the way.

And thank you for the tips BUDs.



Definitely try and get an AI, due to the fact that those two compounds do aromatize. There are plenty of palaces that sell "research" adex but that's only if you were doing "research". You might have to play around with the dosing a bit I find .25mg EOD to be perfect while running test and dbol .5 Ed might be too much, but you should always run an AI to prevent sides either adex or aromasin and have some extra Nolva on hand just in case you start having signs of gyno and even letro as a last resort.

Run your pct 4 weeks instead of 3 40/40/20/20


Am I right in that the AI ie. arimedix will also reduce the bloating, since part of the water retension and bloating is caused by the excess amount of estroged aromatised from the huge amount of test in my body at the time of the cycle?

I'll start with 0.25mg EOD and bump it to 0.5mg if the bloating is really bad. I bloat up pretty easy on high carbs so my diet will be low to moderate in carbs depending on if it is a workout day or not. I'll also be taking 1g of C-vitamin to get fluids moving and 800-1200mg of magnesium and taurine before bed to counter possible back pumps, since my training is constructed around the four big lifts with accessory work done with moderate to high volume. Should I take aromasin on the same day as the test or in between, since they are both taken EOD?

At first I was plannin to do a tbol only cycle with nolva as pct, but since this is my first cycle and the best gains are usually made on the first, I will rather go with the test and dbol mix to maximise the gains from it. It's a bit harder to hide because of the bloating and since I'm prone to acne, but that is a price I'm willing to pay.

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BUDs
Level

Join date: Sep 2010
Location: California, USA
Posts: 1708

You are correct an AI will reduce the bloating, you can take the adex on the same day as the test. Good decision taking the dbol with test I personally love these two together. Eat like a horse to get the most mass out of the cycle good luck and enjoy!

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Megatron999
Level

Join date: Jan 2008
Location: Finland
Posts: 71

BUDs wrote:
You are correct an AI will reduce the bloating, you can take the adex on the same day as the test. Good decision taking the dbol with test I personally love these two together. Eat like a horse to get the most mass out of the cycle good luck and enjoy!


I've been looking into adex (anastrazole) and nolva (tamoxifen citrate) from a few research chems that have had a lot of good feedback but also some bad. Is there any way of testing is the chems are legit witout building a lab or doing the whole gyno/no gyno mess? I won't start the cycle if I have doubts that the pct is bogus. I am a gyno and my own test production will not kick back in phobe at the moment.

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BUDs
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Join date: Sep 2010
Location: California, USA
Posts: 1708

Well without Getting blood work down you won't know for sure but the majority of people use research chems I've used them with no problems.

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Megatron999
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Join date: Jan 2008
Location: Finland
Posts: 71

Here's a recap of my planned cycle and some tweaks.

week 1-8 susta 250 250mg 2x wk
week 1-4 oral dbol 30mg ED
week 1-8 Clomid 25mg E2D

PCT
Clomid starting 14 days after my last shot of susta, since Decanoates half-life is about 18 days.
week 11-15 Clomid 150/100/100/50/25

Susta will be injected 2 times per week instead of E3D, since the ampulles are 250mg, it will be a hell oh a lot easier to do one whole ampul per injection.

The clomid on cycle is to keep gyno/bloating and other high E2 sides in check. I have not been able to get pharma grade AI, so a SERM will be the choice over taking nothing at all or research chems.

If I get HCG that will be taken week 9-10 500iu ED.

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Pitbull55
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Join date: Feb 2012
Location:
Posts: 11

Hey Guys,

Just looking for some feedback on my first cycle, I realize there is a lot of these on this thread so I'll keep it short.

500mg of Test-Eth/week for 10-12 weeks (250mg Monday Lunch and Thursday Night)
30mg of D-bol for weeks 1-4
250iu of HCG every 4th day

Nolva on hand for any gyno symptons and of course PCT.

I've been lifting weights since I was 15 for hockey and weighed a whopping 137lbs, been taking bodybuilding seriously for the last 3-4 years. I'm 23 years old, just uner 5'10, 218lbs, dont track my bf% just go by how my abs look (my guideline is I should always be able to see the top 4). Personal best on bench is 345, squat 475 and deadlift 585.

What furiousGeorge posted earlier in this thread has been really helpful, would just look some other vet opinions.

Cheers

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BUDs
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Join date: Sep 2010
Location: California, USA
Posts: 1708

Pitbull55 wrote:
Hey Guys,

Just looking for some feedback on my first cycle, I realize there is a lot of these on this thread so I'll keep it short.

500mg of Test-Eth/week for 10-12 weeks (250mg Monday Lunch and Thursday Night)
30mg of D-bol for weeks 1-4
250iu of HCG every 4th day

Nolva on hand for any gyno symptons and of course PCT.

I've been lifting weights since I was 15 for hockey and weighed a whopping 137lbs, been taking bodybuilding seriously for the last 3-4 years. I'm 23 years old, just uner 5'10, 218lbs, dont track my bf% just go by how my abs look (my guideline is I should always be able to see the top 4). Personal best on bench is 345, squat 475 and deadlift 585.

What furiousGeorge posted earlier in this thread has been really helpful, would just look some other vet opinions.

Cheers




You will probably get more responses if you start a new thread.

But your cycle looks good, in my opinion I would pin the hcg 2x a week and I would also get an AI to run as well. What does your pct look like?

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Pitbull55
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Join date: Feb 2012
Location:
Posts: 11

Thanks for the advice.

Didn't think an AI would be necessary, I've done 2 cycles of PH and never had any gyno symptons so I thought 10 mg of nolva a day while on d-bol would be sufficient but definitely consider it.

PCT was gonna be nolva 40/40/20/20 over 4 weeks. Along with creatine and a natural t-booster.

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BUDs
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Join date: Sep 2010
Location: California, USA
Posts: 1708

Pitbull55 wrote:
Thanks for the advice.

Didn't think an AI would be necessary, I've done 2 cycles of PH and never had any gyno symptons so I thought 10 mg of nolva a day while on d-bol would be sufficient but definitely consider it.

PCT was gonna be nolva 40/40/20/20 over 4 weeks. Along with creatine and a natural t-booster.



I would highly recommend an AI, especially when running test and dbol together which both aromatize. Nolva works on cycle but it doesn't eliminate the estrogen where as an AI it will stop the conversion of T into E all together. this will make the chanes of gyno appearing non existient for the most part and ive also read that nolva on cycle can hinder gains but i believe thats at higher doses.

Also test and dbol are both known to cause water retention but with an AI it can greatly eliminate the bloat. Phs are a lot different than steroids so I wouldn't hold on to the idea because you've done PHs that you will be fine running test and dbol. Pct looks good.

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SHREDTODEATH
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Join date: Jul 2012
Location:
Posts: 299

BUDs wrote:
Pitbull55 wrote:
Thanks for the advice.

Didn't think an AI would be necessary, I've done 2 cycles of PH and never had any gyno symptons so I thought 10 mg of nolva a day while on d-bol would be sufficient but definitely consider it.

PCT was gonna be nolva 40/40/20/20 over 4 weeks. Along with creatine and a natural t-booster.




I would highly recommend an AI, especially when running test and dbol together which both aromatize. Nolva works on cycle but it doesn't eliminate the estrogen where as an AI it will stop the conversion of T into E all together. this will make the chanes of gyno appearing non existient for the most part and ive also read that nolva on cycle can hinder gains but i believe thats at higher doses. Also test and dbol are both known to cause water retention but with an AI it can greatly eliminate the bloat. Phs are a lot different than steroids so I wouldn't hold on to the idea because you've done PHs that you will be fine running test and dbol. Pct looks good.

x2 get an AI

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