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Recomp Cycle on TRT (AAS Newb)
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Jagger
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Join date: Dec 2011
Posts: 42

Hey guys, I've been lurking for a while here reading up and have really appreciated the good info. Cheers for that.

I want to run Cy Wilson's cycle outlined in this article from way back in the T-Nation coffers:

http://www.T-Nation.com/...steroid_dieting

Test Cyp + Sust: 350 mg/week ***On TRT, see explanation below***
Tren Ace: 50 mg/day (350 mg/week)
Winny: 50 mg/day (350 mg/week)
Dbol: 10 mg 3x/day (210 mg/week)


***My current TRT dose is 200 mg/week of Test Cyp, which I will keep running in the background and add the Sust on top. I inject the Cyp 2x/week.

8 weeks for all (the article is not clear on length, but I feel like this is a good duration)

Aromasin as part of my TRT is 37.5 mg/week (MWF dosing). Do not intend to increase this unless necessary.

Will have a SERM on hand in case of gyno issues. I don't expect that to be an issue. No PCT since I am on TRT

I realize the consensus here is to keep it very simple for your first cycle with Test only. But I've heard so many awesome things about the recomp properties of Tren, I would like to include it. The Cy Wilson article seems to take into account the synergistic properties of all 3 compounds (tren/test/winny) and makes a good case for the dbol as well.

If anything, I could see not including the dbol.

---------------------------------------------------

6'3, 275 lbs, 19.5% BF (calipers), 32 years old, been training for 5 years.

I've put more emphasis on strength than physique since I've been training and it has caught up with me so I would like some assistance in cleaning that up without losing strength/mass that I've built up.

Each time I've tried to cut quickly (albeit unsuccessfully), I've lost a significant amount of strength and taken a while to recover it. I've also increased my conditioning and cleaned up my diet significantly recently, yet am still having trouble dropping any bodyfat.

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1) What do you guys think of the cycle? Should I keep it simpler, or is it ok? What about the dbol (yay or nay)?

2) Would I be better off keeping my TRT dose of test the same (or even lowering it) and just running higher tren?

3) Is 8 weeks appropriate? I am not looking to get onstage, but do want to drop a significant amount of BF. 8 weeks feels right for a first AAS cycle and I think I should be able to do some damage to my BF in that time.

4) Should I have some caber on hand in case of prolactin issues from the Tren? My prolactin has been well below the ceiling in my TRT bloodwork.

Thanks for stopping by.

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BONEZ217
Level 2

Join date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11473

No dbol. No winny

go with 2 drugs, max.

Id even replace tren with masteron but that's for you to decide.

Your trt dose is irrelevant.

Just pick a dose of testosterone you want to run and do that. It doesnt need to come from two sources, but it can. Its still one dose.

8 weeks is fine.

prolactin elevation from tren is cotnroversial. I dont personally believe in it, but people have said it's happened to them so of course its better to be prepared for the worst.

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Jagger
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Join date: Dec 2011
Posts: 42

Thanks Bonez! Much appreciated

As far as masteron vs. tren, I didn't find any info in the stickeys for why one would be more useful than the others. Is there a reason you prefer mast?

I thought of a few more questions:

1) I do not currently take HCG with my TRT (though am considering pushing my doctor for this). Should I utilize it for the cycle if I increase my test dose?

2) Am I correct in thinking that Sust should be shot EOD and Ace should be ED?

3) Is Sust a good ester for an 8 week cycle? Or should I run Prop instead (somewhat concerned about the pain)?

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BONEZ217
Level 2

Join date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11473

I think that masteron is a better 'starter' addition than tren. Itll likely be more comfortable to tolerate as well, but maybe not.

It has very few effects, IMO. Compared to tren, which can be problematic for some.

1. Men on trt should be on hCG as well. Use it.

2. Yes

3. Sust is do-able for an 8 week cycle. Needs to be frontloaded though. Prop is definitely superior. Pain may be an issue but if you use 50mg (1/2ml) of prop and 35mg of masteron per day you can shoot them together and dilute the prop a bit. Wont matter much if youre particularly susceptible to prop pain but itll help a bit. Use insulin pins if you do this. run a search on that

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Roid Noid
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Join date: Dec 2011
Posts: 76

Your planning on running the orals for 8 weeks?

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Jagger
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Join date: Dec 2011
Posts: 42

No orals...the winny is injectable form, and I decided not to roll with the dbol.

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BigSkwatta
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Join date: Dec 2010
Posts: 799

Injectable winstrol is still metabolized by the liver.

I would listen to bonez, and keep it to 2 compounds max. Maybe even just run a higher dose of test only.....

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Roid Noid
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Join date: Dec 2011
Posts: 76

Jagger wrote:
No orals...the winny is injectable form, and I decided not to roll with the dbol.


Personally I wouldnt use winny with that high of BF, most of the time its said around 10% or lower...

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bushidobadboy
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2004
Posts: 15565

I would keep it as simple as possible:

50mg tren ace ED. No extra test.

The TRT dose of test should prevent tren sides from becoming unpleasant, which is why the more experienced users are running low test with tren.

Personally I find winstrol to be nicely anabolic, though it does make my feet ache in the morning. But as mentioned above, it's often 'best practice' to add one new drug at a time.

BBB

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Jagger
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Join date: Dec 2011
Posts: 42

Thanks for all the input guys. It seems that there is no real consensus on the compounds to use, but the common theme seems to be "pick just ONE and roll with it"--so that's what I'm going to do.

I've decided to to go with BBB's recommendation with 50 mg Tren Ace ED with current TRT dose of test.

I'll be starting the cycle once I get my gear after the first of the year so I'll post an update around that time.

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Jagger
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Join date: Dec 2011
Posts: 42

Alright so I finally got my shipment in after my source closed down over the holidays.

I have 8 weeks of product, but my issue is that I am going on an international vacation 6 weeks from today. Would it be better to up the dose of Tren A from 350/week to 500/week? Or do you guys feel that may be pushing it too high too soon? Obviously my mileage is going to vary, but trying to gauge from others' experience.

Will be keeping the TRT dose the same (200 mg/week).

Thanks

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Jagger
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Join date: Dec 2011
Posts: 42

I am now 3 pins in and already feeling the effects...sweating my ass off at the gym and a pretty good overall feeling of euphoria...but god damn the injection site pain is killer! I can barely straighten my leg out still after injecting into my lower quad Thursday night. I use that site for my TRT, so I figured it wasn't still "virgin muscle" but I guess the different oil makes a big difference

Does anyone have any thoughts on upping the dose? My current plan is to run what I am for one week (50 mg/day) to assess any sides then up it to around 500 mg/week until my vacation. Is this reasonable?

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Jagger
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Join date: Dec 2011
Posts: 42

Alright so just over a week in at 50 mg/day (350 mg/week)...the first few days I felt some side effects...cold hands/feet (which was weird) but would quickly warm up when I started working out and sweat would start pouring...hit a couple nice PR's this week too. None of the major sides regarding insomnia and anxiety.

Up about 3 pounds, which is weird since I am dieting with a fairly big name dieting coach at the moment and had been losing consistently for the 3 weeks up to this one. Maybe water weight?

My question: is this long enough to have assessed the sides at my current dose? I'm thinking of bumping up to 500 mg/week and maybe adding a bit of prop in on top as well.

If any of you vets (Bonez, BBB, Skwatta) have any thoughts I would like to hear them, please. Thanks.

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BONEZ217
Level 2

Join date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11473

A week in?

Maybe. I doubt it though. Try it and see. You cant really predict these things.

If you didnt increase testosterone dose, you didnt gain water weight.

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bushidobadboy
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2004
Posts: 15565

Well not to sound trite, but it's up to you if you want to increase the dose a little. The sky isn't going to fall, the oceans will not dry up. You'll just get a bit more effect and some more sides.

I would keep it the same though. Why rush the increase if you are enjoying results at the current level?

Also, try injecting the tren subQ into the anterior thigh. It will hurt less.

BBB

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Jagger
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Join date: Dec 2011
Posts: 42

Thanks for the input guys. I understand this stuff fairly well, at least at a working level, but when it comes to planning my own shit, my brain draws a blank for whatever reason and I can't view it objectively. I realize now the answer should have just been "try it and see"....

BONEZ217 wrote:
If you didnt increase testosterone dose, you didnt gain water weight.


Good point--could have just been short-term fluctuation then. I really shouldn't start gaining weight at my current caloric intake since I am consuming what was a deficit before beginning my cycle.

bushidobadboy wrote:

I would keep it the same though. Why rush the increase if you are enjoying results at the current level?



Well truthfully I was a bit concerned about the weight gain--I don't really look any leaner this week than last. I doubt I put on 3 pounds of muscle in the past week (though it could have just been a fluctuation and I'm overreacting as I noted above). I just want to drop this fat off once and for all!

Appreciate the tip about injecting Sub-Q. I will give that a shot. Though the pain has noticeably diminished on my second run through all my sites after popping the cherry on the first.

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Jagger
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Join date: Dec 2011
Posts: 42

Alright, just wanted to update here.

I ended up settling on the following:
-350 mg/week Tren Ace (50 mg/day)
-175 mg/week Test Cyp (87.5 mg 2x/week)
-175 mg/week Test Prop (25 mg/day)

I had bumped the Tren up to 500 mg/week for about a week while my Test was still at TRT levels (200 mg pharm grade/week) but I started feeling really shitty at this dose and my cardio took a hit so I dropped it back down and increased test dose instead to run at 350 mg of each/week. This worked out very well.

I dropped about 10 pounds from February-end of March but got significantly leaner. Bodyfat dropped about 4.5% and I was setting PR's in the gym the whole time so strength didn't suffer at all and actually improved.

Around mid March, I started taking T3 ramping up over a couple weeks to 75 mcg/day. This helped lean me out and I also dropped a few more pounds. Still taking the T3.

I ran out of Tren around the first part of April and at the same time my diet coach recommended I add some Clen into the mix as well. Swapped out the Tren for Clen on the same day and over the next week I dropped 6 pounds, and 4 more the following week. Clen is only at 40 mcg/day for now.

Gotta admit I found the quick weight loss surprising and makes me think my Tren may have been something else that was aromatizable (Deca?) and I lost a lot of water weight. Or the Clen could have just dried me out that much. Not sure. Either way I am happy with my progress right now.

The only problem is that I went and got bloodwork done yesterday 24 hours after injecting both the Prop and Cyp and T levels were only at 1350 on a 350-1150 scale. My TRT dosage keeps me at around 1000 so I was surprised that more than double the Test dosage barely got me 350 more points on my T-levels.

Due to this and the weird results with Tren once I quit it, I have decided not to use my same source for my next cycle. Though on the other hand, my fat loss has been great and I have gotten stronger, so it wasn't a total waste.

Got a few more weeks left of the Test (going to run my Pharm grade only at 350 mg/week and retest to compare the blood levels) before coming off.

All in all, I have to say my first run was a good experience. I learned a lot about what works and what doesn't for fat loss cycles. Will definitely add T3 and Clen from the get-go next time and make sure I have a good source for the Test/Tren.

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