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Q&A with Shadow Pro
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Shadow Pro
Contributor

Join date: Jun 2014
Posts: 881

Hi Everyone,

I just want to introduce myself to the forum. I will be available and willing to answer any questions you may have. I have been in this game a long time and I'm willing to share my knowledge with you... I've competed as a pro for many years(including the Olympia) and I've worked alongside many of the other top pros and gurus in the industry, I know everyone is always interested in the "secrets" of the pros so if you have specific questions don't be afraid to ask.

If you have questions regarding your own cycle and want advice, I would like you to post pictures with your questions so I can get a general idea about your overall condition before I give random advice. Don't be shy because more than likely everybody else wants to know the same information.

*Please DON'T send me messages asking about buying or selling, I am not interested in your soliciting. Other than that, anything goes!!*

-Shadow Pro

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_Yogi_
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Join date: May 2014
Posts: 1582

What's the typical cycle (compounds, dosages etc) for an Olympian?

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Reed
Level

Join date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4278

Lol love finally moving into here as well.

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Shadow Pro
Contributor

Join date: Jun 2014
Posts: 881

_Yogi_ wrote:
What's the typical cycle (compounds, dosages etc) for an Olympian?


There's no magic formula that will fit everyone even from show to show you can't always rely on the same formula to do the trick, it all depends how your body is responding at any given time.. This is why investing in a coach is very important unless you are able to be objective on how you look (none of us really are, right?)
I would say the most important compounds to utilize when preparing for a show are....

Tren-A 75-200mg ED (depends on tolerance, years of training, history of usage etc.
Mast-P 400-800mg/week
Test-P 600-2000/week
Test-C or E can be kept in all the way until about 2-3 weeks out depending on the athletes genetic disposition for water retention
GH (4-36iu/day) (depends on sensitivity, level of training, tolerance and most of all budget... I believe most people are taking as much as they can afford)

Orals:
Winstrol 50-100mg/day
Halotestin 20-60mg/day
Anavar up to 100mg/day
Primo up to 100mg/day
Anti-Estrogens:(most popular choices)
Proviron 50-100mg/day
Nolvadex 20-60mg/day
Arimidex 1-4mg/day

FatBurners:(most popular choices)
T3 25-100mcg/day
Clen 20-200mcg/day

*Dosages are changing throughout the prep (16-20weeks)
**Not all of these are used @ the same time, it's depending on the point of the prep.
**These dosages are not recommended for beginners by any means. Unless training/diet have been on target for years and years these kind of dosages are just silly and dangerous to do without building them up accordingly over the years.

My best recommendation is to start with very low dosages and get the best benefit you can from these when your body is still sensitive. ONLY when you have hit a plateau you should slowly increase dosages. Taking high dosages isn't fun... So enjoy saving your money and getting great benefits from a low dose while you can.

This is very general(I would give you something more specific if it existed) but most pros are using these combos... it's very hard to keep with some of the genetics freaks so we do what we need to do and everyone's body responds differently. I have also experimented with peptides but I think it's better to put your money towards quality GH, gear and supplements. Peptides are hit and miss... You can always count on the basics.

Maybe you're wondering why I'm posting on here and not MD or elsewhere. Throughout my career I have used supplements from here for years and the quality is better than anything else you'll find. Most sponsored athletes are paid to give you a load of BS about their supplement companies(as if m-tech built Phil Heath, HA!) For example, the Plazma and Humalog is dream combo.

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_Yogi_
Level

Join date: May 2014
Posts: 1582

Shadow Pro wrote:
_Yogi_ wrote:
What's the typical cycle (compounds, dosages etc) for an Olympian?


There's no magic formula that will fit everyone even from show to show you can't always rely on the same formula to do the trick, it all depends how your body is responding at any given time.. This is why investing in a coach is very important unless you are able to be objective on how you look (none of us really are, right?)
I would say the most important compounds to utilize when preparing for a show are....

Tren-A 75-200mg ED (depends on tolerance, years of training, history of usage etc.
Mast-P 400-800mg/week
Test-P 600-2000/week
Test-C or E can be kept in all the way until about 2-3 weeks out depending on the athletes genetic disposition for water retention
GH (4-36iu/day) (depends on sensitivity, level of training, tolerance and most of all budget... I believe most people are taking as much as they can afford)

Orals:
Winstrol 50-100mg/day
Halotestin 20-60mg/day
Anavar up to 100mg/day
Primo up to 100mg/day
Anti-Estrogens:(most popular choices)
Proviron 50-100mg/day
Nolvadex 20-60mg/day
Arimidex 1-4mg/day

FatBurners:(most popular choices)
T3 25-100mcg/day
Clen 0.2-2.0mcg/day

*Dosages are changing throughout the prep (16-20weeks)
**Not all of these are used @ the same time, it's depending on the point of the prep.
**These dosages are not recommended for beginners by any means. Unless training/diet have been on target for years and years these kind of dosages are just silly and dangerous to do without building them up accordingly over the years.

My best recommendation is to start with very low dosages and get the best benefit you can from these when your body is still sensitive. ONLY when you have hit a plateau you should slowly increase dosages. Taking high dosages isn't fun... So enjoy saving your money and getting great benefits from a low dose while you can.

This is very general(I would give you something more specific if it existed) but most pros are using these combos... it's very hard to keep with some of the genetics freaks so we do what we need to do and everyone's body responds differently. I have also experimented with peptides but I think it's better to put your money towards quality GH, gear and supplements. Peptides are hit and miss... You can always count on the basics.

Maybe you're wondering why I'm posting on here and not MD or elsewhere. Throughout my career I have used supplements from here for years and the quality is better than anything else you'll find. Most sponsored athletes are paid to give you a load of BS about their supplement companies(as if m-tech built Phil Heath, HA!) For example, the Plazma and Humalog is dream combo.


interesting stuff, thanks for the reply. I wasn't asking because I have any interest in running that heavy a cycle, just curious as to what the big dudes run. I'm happy with my moderate dose, two injectables plus the occasional oral.

36iu of GH a day would bankrupt me!

What was your cycle when you competed at the Olympia?

Also, in your opinion, are there any pro's running "small" doses? Every now and then you'll hear claims from a pro that they use small amounts of gear (Dorian has said in the past his off-season stack was only 750mg test, 500mg deca; Lee Priest claims he just uses moderate doses of primo) relative to what most are using. Have you ever seen any evidence of that or does it tend to be grams upon grams of oil in every case?

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Shadow Pro
Contributor

Join date: Jun 2014
Posts: 881

_Yogi_ wrote:
Shadow Pro wrote:
_Yogi_ wrote:
What's the typical cycle (compounds, dosages etc) for an Olympian?


There's no magic formula that will fit everyone even from show to show you can't always rely on the same formula to do the trick, it all depends how your body is responding at any given time.. This is why investing in a coach is very important unless you are able to be objective on how you look (none of us really are, right?)
I would say the most important compounds to utilize when preparing for a show are....

Tren-A 75-200mg ED (depends on tolerance, years of training, history of usage etc.
Mast-P 400-800mg/week
Test-P 600-2000/week
Test-C or E can be kept in all the way until about 2-3 weeks out depending on the athletes genetic disposition for water retention
GH (4-36iu/day) (depends on sensitivity, level of training, tolerance and most of all budget... I believe most people are taking as much as they can afford)

Orals:
Winstrol 50-100mg/day
Halotestin 20-60mg/day
Anavar up to 100mg/day
Primo up to 100mg/day
Anti-Estrogens:(most popular choices)
Proviron 50-100mg/day
Nolvadex 20-60mg/day
Arimidex 1-4mg/day

FatBurners:(most popular choices)
T3 25-100mcg/day
Clen 0.2-2.0mcg/day

*Dosages are changing throughout the prep (16-20weeks)
**Not all of these are used @ the same time, it's depending on the point of the prep.
**These dosages are not recommended for beginners by any means. Unless training/diet have been on target for years and years these kind of dosages are just silly and dangerous to do without building them up accordingly over the years.

My best recommendation is to start with very low dosages and get the best benefit you can from these when your body is still sensitive. ONLY when you have hit a plateau you should slowly increase dosages. Taking high dosages isn't fun... So enjoy saving your money and getting great benefits from a low dose while you can.

This is very general(I would give you something more specific if it existed) but most pros are using these combos... it's very hard to keep with some of the genetics freaks so we do what we need to do and everyone's body responds differently. I have also experimented with peptides but I think it's better to put your money towards quality GH, gear and supplements. Peptides are hit and miss... You can always count on the basics.

Maybe you're wondering why I'm posting on here and not MD or elsewhere. Throughout my career I have used supplements from here for years and the quality is better than anything else you'll find. Most sponsored athletes are paid to give you a load of BS about their supplement companies(as if m-tech built Phil Heath, HA!) For example, the Plazma and Humalog is dream combo.


interesting stuff, thanks for the reply. I wasn't asking because I have any interest in running that heavy a cycle, just curious as to what the big dudes run. I'm happy with my moderate dose, two injectables plus the occasional oral.

36iu of GH a day would bankrupt me!

What was your cycle when you competed at the Olympia?

Also, in your opinion, are there any pro's running "small" doses? Every now and then you'll hear claims from a pro that they use small amounts of gear (Dorian has said in the past his off-season stack was only 750mg test, 500mg deca; Lee Priest claims he just uses moderate doses of primo) relative to what most are using. Have you ever seen any evidence of that or does it tend to be grams upon grams of oil in every case?


My first Olympia I was broke as fuck(like most pro bodybuilders are at one point or another) so I ran the low end of all the numbers I gave you(75mg of prop, tren, mast & 40mg of halo everyday) and did only 4iu of GH for the last 12 weeks of the prep because it's all I could get. I trained like a maniac and kept everything else perfect.

Absolutely, there are lots of guys running moderate dosages.. I have only ever ran mid ranges in all of my drugs. I think it depends a lot on the coaches advice as well and how the body is reacting. I worked with Chris Aceto before and he doesn't push shit tons of drugs on his guys. You will find that guys are running cycles all over the board, from very little amounts up to 3 grams a week.

You are probably all wondering, just as I was. Where the F are they injecting all of this? Some guys have it made at a higher dose so less oil is needed in every injection and others are spot injecting everywhere! Someone once told me they did injections in their calves? (Ouch?)

Everybody wants to be a freak so the limits are being pushed to the extreme! The dream to be Mr.Olympia seems to override the health risk so there will always be THAT guy taking insane amounts and always genetic freaks who can get away with the bare minimum. It's just the game we play!



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Steve Rogers
Level 4

Join date: Sep 2013
Posts: 130

This is so stupid

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SirTroyRobert
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Join date: Mar 2014
Posts: 193

When did you start using? and do you regeret it?

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Shadow Pro
Contributor

Join date: Jun 2014
Posts: 881

Steve Rogers wrote:
This is so stupid


Is that a question? Because I don't recall asking for opinions.

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DoctorJekyll
Level

Join date: Jan 2014
Posts: 288

You havent mention the use of insulin. How do some of the pro's use this coming into/through comp prep (if at all)? Or would they keep it to a minimum when cutting carbs? I've only read about slin really being used when bulking.

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Shadow Pro
Contributor

Join date: Jun 2014
Posts: 881

DoctorJekyll wrote:
You havent mention the use of insulin. How do some of the pro's use this coming into/through comp prep (if at all)? Or would they keep it to a minimum when cutting carbs? I've only read about slin really being used when bulking.


It can be utilized at any stage of a diet or off season. As for the cutting phase it's dependent on the type of diet that the athlete is using(high fat/low carb, low fat/high carb etc), as long as you are using enough carbs in the diet it's fine to use pre workout and possibly at breakfast depending on lean you are and how carb sensitive. Also, you really need to watch the timing of your fat intake when using it. It can be equally effective to use in a diet as it is for the off season.
*Humalog (short acting insulin in and out of the system in about 4 hours)

When dieting insulin will keep you fuller and help maintain your muscle mass and as long you are in a caloric deficit you will still lose fat. (For example: something like 5iu pre workout with a good intraworkout shake can work great)
** There are many options of dosages and times to take it but it all depends on the goal and the person using it.


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c.m.l.
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Join date: Dec 2012
Posts: 596

Happy to have you here, good stuff so far.

On the topic of insulin, how important is it to have humalog as opposed to the longer lasting humalin?

Also about what dose of insulin could you play with or method you can use on a regular, off season basis while trying to minimize risk of developing an insensitivity to insulin?

Is this unwise or impractical for larger carbohydrate diets which release fair amounts of insulin on their own?

I've also read that constantly elevated insulin can cause arterial plaque, is this more of a concern for type 2 diabetics or is it a potential danger here? I think maintaining a healthy heart is probably something to consider when using PEDS that tax it so much.

Also have you ever heard mention of those taking larger dosages donating blood due to high RBC.

Not to pester you with health questions but Im curious.

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eatliftsleep
Level 2

Join date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1182

I am a little skeptical of your claims like Olympia and stuff like that but you seem to know your shit so ill bite.

What percentage of pros are on bp meds, cholesterol meds, etc.


Is fertility and having kids a huge concern with pros or anyone using aas for that matter?


Would you say the journey has been worth it?

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Shadow Pro
Contributor

Join date: Jun 2014
Posts: 881

c.m.l. wrote:
Happy to have you here, good stuff so far.

On the topic of insulin, how important is it to have humalog as opposed to the longer lasting humalin?

Also about what dose of insulin could you play with or method you can use on a regular, off season basis while trying to minimize risk of developing an insensitivity to insulin?

Is this unwise or impractical for larger carbohydrate diets which release fair amounts of insulin on their own?

I've also read that constantly elevated insulin can cause arterial plaque, is this more of a concern for type 2 diabetics or is it a potential danger here? I think maintaining a healthy heart is probably something to consider when using PEDS that tax it so much.

Also have you ever heard mention of those taking larger dosages donating blood due to high RBC.

Not to pester you with health questions but Im curious.



Humalog peaks at about 30-90 minutes after administered whereas Humalin is 8hours after which makes it a little more tricky to schedule your nutrition. Humalog is more predictable, you can eat right after you take it but with Humalin you run the risk of random blood sugar drops due to the unpredictable nature of the long lasting insulins that peak at various times... You will also have an increased risk of fat accumulation with the Humalin, assuming you aren't actually a diabetic and don't need the drug it will take a toll on your organs (specifically your pancreas) and it takes longer for your body to recover.. 12 hours as opposed to 4!

I always use Humalog and the biggest advantage for me is I can take it right before a workout and then have my intraworkout nutrition(the majority of my daily carbs are here) because it is the best time for absorption. The optimal times to use it (in order) 1. Pre workout 2. Before breakfast 3. Post workout (only if your workout is long, so you don't get a double peak). As for dosages, a good place to start would be 5iu about 15 min before your workout and consume 50g of carbs from Plazma with your workout. Increase it slowly, about 2-3iu every 10-14 days. I have heard people going all the way up to 30iu preworkout with300g of carbs and others who tried to get to 15iu and it was too much for them. A good way to moniter it is if you are starting to gain fat and not getting a good pump you are becoming insulin resistant and need to back off.
You should always cycle on and off insulin use to minimize your risks of becoming insulin resistant, I would suggest trying 6-8 weeks on and 6-8 weeks off.

I wouldn't say its unwise or impractical to use it on a high carb diet... In fact most of the people it know that use a lot of insulin are usually running high carb/low fat diets. The important thing would be to time your meals accordingly and eat your carbs in a window around your insulin use and training time. And avoid consuming fat around the time of the insulin.

The health risks are a huge factor of using (or abusing) insulin. It can have many bad side effects on your cardiovascular systemliver problems, hypothyroidism and the list goes on. These guys aren't taking insulin to be healthy and that's for sure. I realize that my insulin use is hazardous to my overall health but there are always risks to take and I wouldn't even claim or bullshit anyone that it's a healthy choice.

As for the blood donations... I'm not sure about other countries but as far as I know in the USA you cannot donate blood if you are taking or have taken steroids in the past.

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Shadow Pro
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Join date: Jun 2014
Posts: 881

eatliftsleep wrote:
I am a little skeptical of your claims like Olympia and stuff like that but you seem to know your shit so ill bite.

What percentage of pros are on bp meds, cholesterol meds, etc.


Is fertility and having kids a huge concern with pros or anyone using aas for that matter?


Would you say the journey has been worth it?



Personally, I'm not on any blood pressure or cholesterol meds. There are some relatively "healthy" bodybuilders out there still! I do know that some guys take these meds, but I am not sure it's directly linked to bodybuilding and I'm certain that a higher percentage of obese people are taking these. I also keep a clean diet year round and I don't drink or do any drugs.. I'd say it would be a reflection of lifestyle. I don't really know what to say for a percentage, it's really hit and miss.

Fertility isn't an issue for most pros as far as I can tell, the majority of them have/had kids while they were still competing. I think it has an effect on many recreational users who are getting misleading information and taking drugs in a way that harms them in many more ways than just fertility.

My journey has been worth it, absolutely! I never wake up and have any regrets about the choices in my life. I love bodybuilding this is who I am and this is what I do.

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DoctorJekyll
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Join date: Jan 2014
Posts: 288

I'm currently about to start my prep for a show. I'm on low doses for this first cycle as advised by my coach (former IFBB pro now coaches some top competitors ), 300mg test e / Deca (thus far i've gained approx 20lbs before prep, feel fuller and stronger). Switching to Prop at 16 weeks, adding in tren A, Mast P at week 11 all at fairly low dose to begin (200mg/week).

Would you say that changing compounds over a longer period of time at lower doses to begin with is the way to go for the sake of not building tolerance to the drugs?

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_Yogi_
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Join date: May 2014
Posts: 1582

So what's your favourite steroid cycle? Favourite compound in general?

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Shadow Pro
Contributor

Join date: Jun 2014
Posts: 881

SirTroyRobert wrote:
When did you start using? and do you regeret it?


My first. Cycle was when I was 22 and no ,it's a part of my job and I want to be the best. So you do what you need to do in order to keep up. I live off the thing I love to do the most, training and competing. What can be better then that ? How many people get up every morning and say they LOVE their job?

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Shadow Pro
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Join date: Jun 2014
Posts: 881

DoctorJekyll wrote:
I'm currently about to start my prep for a show. I'm on low doses for this first cycle as advised by my coach (former IFBB pro now coaches some top competitors ), 300mg test e / Deca (thus far i've gained approx 20lbs before prep, feel fuller and stronger). Switching to Prop at 16 weeks, adding in tren A, Mast P at week 11 all at fairly low dose to begin (200mg/week).

Would you say that changing compounds over a longer period of time at lower doses to begin with is the way to go for the sake of not building tolerance to the drugs?


What is your cycle history? how lean you are right now? Yes therre is a lot of logic in what your coach gave you but it's really depends on your cycle history in order to know if this will work for you or not.

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Shadow Pro
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Join date: Jun 2014
Posts: 881

_Yogi_ wrote:
So what's your favourite steroid cycle? Favourite compound in general?


My favorite compounds:

Injectable: TREN. By far the BEST injectable out there , nothing beats it when it comes to strength, hardness, vascularity ,and lean mass gains. If you can handle the sides I would suggest it both in cutting and gaining cycles. It makes you feel like a marine soldier in the gym. Focused and motivated. The downside is that it hurts your cardiovascular shape and if you're not stable mentally it a recipe for disaster but if you all good in your head so it's the best one to use.

Orals: HALO (pre-comp) Gives me great strength, hardness, no water retention and suppresses appetite.
D-BOL(off season) . This basic compound with a good combo of test and tren is my favorite to gain new muscle, for me it's effective as Anadrol but with FAR LESS SIDES.

Most importantly: GH(assuming it's real) NOTHING will help you recover like real GH, it has helped me big time with nagging injuries and gives a general feeling of well being. When on it I can literally eat tons of food and I never get fat. (Not fast food food... Clean food but LOTS of it)
The recovery is the main point, it allows you to recover faster which means you can train more frequently and Grow!

Favorite Cycles:
Pre-comp: tren-a, masteron, test-p, halo + GH
Off season:test-c, tren-e, eq, d-bol + GH
*Dosage will be change acording to my condition, body fat, overall gains, water retention etc.

I use anti-estrogens year round, as well as HCG. I do change compounds every 6 to 8 weeks(12-16weeks for long esters) in order not to let my body to get used to the same compound.

EVERY YEAR I'm taking 2 to 3 months off and doing a big detox. After blood tests are clear I'm going back on. As long as you know what you are doing and keep regular blood tests you can keep the use fairly safe. I have never had a problem using juice and I think it's because I use it in the smartest way possible. This is where a lot of guys are going wrong and staying on gear year round without taking breaks for years and years on end. It's extremely detrimental to their health and this is why you hear the horror stories about steroids. I have seen too many guys(and girls) get hurt from making bad choices and listening to the wrong people and this is why I am here to help you guys.


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CxTucker
Level 1

Join date: Nov 2013
Posts: 122

So you do a 8-10 month b+c, and then ~3 months off.. how exactly do you come off and go back on? What AI's / PCT methods do you use?

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_Yogi_
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Posts: 1582

CxTucker wrote:
So you do a 8-10 month b+c, and then ~3 months off.. how exactly do you come off and go back on? What AI's / PCT methods do you use?


I'd be interested to hear this as well. The idea of coming off after ten months on is a little scary

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Shadow Pro
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Join date: Jun 2014
Posts: 881

CxTucker wrote:
So you do a 8-10 month b+c, and then ~3 months off.. how exactly do you come off and go back on? What AI's / PCT methods do you use?


My time off is always planned around the competition season. There's no precise moment between the off season and competition season, the drugs and diet are gradually changed over several weeks to be geared towards competition prep. The competition season ends as soon as I'm finished with my show and at this time I slowly taper everything down( @ this time I'm only on short esters, obviously)

After tapering down I will do 1 of 2 things: (keeping in mind my cycles are relatively aggressive)
1. HCG 3000-5000iu every 3-5 days (for 10-12 shots)
Clomid 50mg (2x/day) 2-4 weeks
50mg everyday for 2-4 weeks
Nolvadex 20mg/day
IV Detox @ Naturopath
Natural Test Booster (Biotest AlphaMale is a good choice)
2. Stay on a low dose of Test (250-500mg/week)
HCG (250-500iu every 3rd day)
IV Detox

I stay on GH year round because it helps with recovery, keeps bodyfat low, maintains size and gives me an overall feeling of well being. In my off times I will lower the dose.

Usually the first couple months are easy, there is no drop (very minimal) in strength or size. By the last month I start to feel a drop in energy, strength, mood and so on but by this time I'm almost ready to go back on so it's manageable.

During my off time I incorporate a lot of recovery exercises and treatments such as massage, physio, hydrotherapy, sauna, short swims, yoga(once and a while). At the end of this time my blood tests always come back in range.
*My body reacts and recovers well from aas use, but this isn't the case for others so it might not work for everyone... Very individual!

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eatliftsleep
Level 2

Join date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1182

How far out of range would you let things get while on a significamt blast, such as bp, cholesterol, liver values, hematocrit, until you called it quits, and what if any otc supplements do you take to help control these? Hawthorr berry, fish oil, milk thistle, coq10? Etc.

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c.m.l.
Level

Join date: Dec 2012
Posts: 596

You continue to mention GH although no one specifically asked about it.

I believe its prohibitive cost is what separates the pros from the joes; I believe the cheapest I ever saw it was around 235USD for 100iu, something that would last a mere days at the doses I read about.

How many IU do you use during prep and off season and what do you think would be the minimum amount to see favorable bodybuilding effects?

I have read that the "hollywood" dose as I call it that is good for things like skin, eyes, etc that many actors go for is like 2-3 iu a day, would this have a noticeable effect on body composition as well?

Also have you noticed any of the typical side effects of hgh use, such as enlarged extremeties?

PS: Any thoughts on IGF-1? I hear about it but never specifically read up on it.



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