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PED Management for Strength Athletes
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mephistopheles
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Join date: Oct 2008
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I'd like to get some feedback from all the experienced guys.

What would be best way to manage PED cycling for a competitve strength athelets.
The athlete will be drug tested , once he medals at the national level (simple T-E test). More stringent drug testing will be imposed when he achieves olympic qualifying results. Year around random testing (WADA) if he compete at international level. WADA have recently decided to perform selective testing on old samples, and serve retroavtive bans ( Does it mean Carl Lewis will lose his medals for stimulant usage? probaly not, WADA will use it with geo-political motives) . This have a big impact on PED cycling and selection.

The athlete is currently off the radar, so to speak. He will be trained to a very high level (international) before competing in any events. The plan is to compete in 2011, one year prior to the Olympics. He would perform just above the minimum qualifying standard in all event, try not to get attention from the anti-doping people. He would compete in one major world event 2011 to qualify for 2012 Olympics and get some experience. The main aim would be for the Olympics obviously.

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DOHCrazy
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Join date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1553

I'm all for drug use in untested competitions, but...

/useless post

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bushidobadboy
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Join date: Nov 2004
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I can think of several PED strategies he might use. Some will effectively be untestable and others should be nigh-on impossible to catch him out on.

However I don't really support the use of drugs in tested sports. Sure, I know it goes on, but I would rather see 2 divisions in sport; unlimited-assisted or 100% natural with no middle ground.

I don't like the idea of athletes using PEDs when they shouldn't except to prolong a career in the face of mounting injuries/degeneration, since I believe that athletes are pushed too hard for longevity of career. I don't agree with that, so I don't mind assisting injury recovery etc.

Just not performance boosting ;)

BBB

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Brook
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Meph, just to clarify - are you saying that of the T:Epi tests done, WADA may choose to re-test those for synthetic T derivatives at a later date?

If so then i would stick to T and Epi T use, unless of course exogenous Epi is something that can be tested for too (i don't follow such things).

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WyldFlower
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Yeah, in an ideal world such moral scuples would be perfect. But we all know how endemic AAS use is in Olympic weight lifting, it's like you need a bacchelor in endicrinology to even compete in those events.

So i don't think OP's question is that unreasonable.

Maybe those wanting to talk practicalities can chime in and the rest can STFU? :D

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WyldFlower
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Just a question comment tho, from an inexperienced boy - aren't they all on, primarily, on GH and other peptides? Cos that shit is virtually undetectable?

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Brook
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WyldFlower wrote:

Maybe those wanting to talk practicalities can chime in and the rest can STFU? :D


Jesus fucking christ.

Lets hear your input then - what would you suggest?

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WyldFlower
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Yes, sorry, that was a little harsh. I was being mr obnoxious...

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mephistopheles
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I think some TNE usage would ok, probably at the low end of the scale. Depend on individual physiiology, some people take 300mg of test, and still pass T:E. Peptide usage is also quite safe in the off-season.

Let's not forget those transgenic stuff, such as IGF-1 overexpression. But gene doping and specific desginer drugs are hard to access for privately funded athletes.

AAS use in OL is widespead, but you don't need fancy stuff to get result. e.g test and dbol will do. But people always get caught with dbol (like the whole bulgarian team, india for multiple time), so you need something a bit more discrete.....

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azbulldog
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If the athlete is looking to compete in 2011, I would recommend some medium length (6-8 weeks) frontloaded test e and dbol cycles for the time being. The athlete must make sure that they are lifting hard enough and eating correctly when off to maintain most of their gains in the beginning. As the time toward 2011 approaches, test e could be swapped for test prop and eventually test suspension due to their short half-lives while the dbol would have to be dropped.

HGH and peptides also should be used throughout this time period and the athlete must learn how their body responds to each compound from a strength perspective. Olympic testing is tough to beat, but I do believe that meticulous planning on your part could allow you to compete at an international stage while enhanced, however it may not be to the degree you are hoping for. Just remember if everyone could get away with using, they would be.

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Mr NO
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The hypothesis stated above is a good "dream", there is no way that any individual can show up and qualify in one race and make it to the Olympics, first you have to make the team this year or by first half of next(where you will face multiple check ups).

AAS might help but its not magic; you need discipline, stamina and "mental focus".




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Alpha F
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Mr NO wrote:

The hypothesis stated above is a good "dream", there is no way that any individual can show up and qualify in one race and make it to the Olympics, first you have to make the team this year or by first half of next(where you will face multiple check ups).


That was my thought as well. And if indeed one could just emerge and win it would raise more suspicions then not. If anything, it just puts the athlete under the spot light. But I have been out of the elite scene for many galaxies and don't know what is the norm now.


AAS might help but its not magic; you need discipline, stamina and "mental focus".


I agree completely.
It also occurred to me how said athlete was going to develop the above attributes and the inner stance of what the definition of an athlete actually is without repeated exposure to competition. The victory is on the mental challenge of the journey. Lest we are talking about psychological quantum leaps which would entail an extraordinary human being - in which case the assistance of "PEDS" may not be necessary.






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Schmazz
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Testing is getting better and better, prolonging the detection times of a number of compounds. The only compund I would feel safe using as a tested athlete would be Test (as stated TNE being the safest bet).

Peptide/GH use seems to be the way to go in terms of "next generation doping" as the tests for them are nonexistent/shoddy at best.

At the same time, I agree with BBB on this one. Use for recovery purposes is alright by me, but enhancement is where I start to question the usage of it. Although my opinion is worth nill to nothing in the grand scheme of things.

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mephistopheles
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The peptide are "current generation", they can be detected within 24 hours of administration via blood test. So the risk is pretty low.

Consumers today demand very high standards in sport. There are money to be made in broadcasting rights, advertising, tickets etc. So basically everyone is supporting PED usage indirectly. So many professional athletes have to dope up with meet the demand. Amateur sports are even worse, those scums in IOC set the qualification standards so high, and at the same time demand strict drug testing! Well, at least no one gets tested in WSM.

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Brook
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mephistopheles wrote:
The peptide are "current generation", they can be detected within 24 hours of administration via blood test. So the risk is pretty low.

Consumers today demand very high standards in sport. There are money to be made in broadcasting rights, advertising, tickets etc. So basically everyone is supporting PED usage indirectly. So many professional athletes have to dope up with meet the demand. Amateur sports are even worse, those scums in IOC set the qualification standards so high, and at the same time demand strict drug testing! Well, at least no one gets tested in WSM.


I agree.

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WyldFlower
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This might be of use i found on anotha site:


Hi joe16,
Beleive it or not its not that difficult to get away with drug testing.

Most users wouldnt risk competing whilst taking anything as i would of thought most if not all of them would be tested.

The problem is 'out of competition' testing, which is supposed to be random (i have my doubts).
But at the end of the day if you dont piss in the mans pot u cant be banned!
Ways round being tested are:-

2 home addresses. one where u live which u NEVER reveal and another address preferbly your parents who will simply say your out.

2 Training venues. One where u train which again u dont reveal and another where people can say you've been and gone.

Someone informs u your being looked for at which point u stop taking what ever it is your taking and keep low for a while.
When ever u are sure its fine to be tested u train 4 a week at the gym the tester is looking for u at and provide a clean sample.
Testers arnt stupid they know whats going on but there is absolutly nothing thay can do if you provide a clean sample.

There are loads of lifters who take steroids for most of the year and are tested 3 - 6 times randomly each year and have never been caught.

I know one bloke who has an 'arangement' with a freind to get the sample off the tester before he gets back to his car IF he's ever caught.
Thats a bit extreme i know.

But basicaly you just have to be difficult to find.

Vinger

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Brook
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Most athletes are banned if they do not provide the sample actually.

If you need an example that is fine too.

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mephistopheles
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Well, I have nailed it down to Test suspension 30-40 ED and /or IV GH, as far as conventional PED goes. And a bit of cutting agent to make weight, for athlets compete in weight classes. The performance enhancement comes from the increased recovery, so the athlete can train harder and more frequently, which leads to higher performance even off PEDs. Long term PEDã??cycling does have permanent benefits.

Elite olympic athlets today doesn't acutally take a lot PEDs. If the guy can't shotput 20M/65ft or Clean and Jerk 400lbs @ 180bw or run a 10.0 natually, then he is not gonna get a medal regardless of PED usage.

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Mr NO
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mephistopheles wrote:
If the guy can't shotput 20M/65ft or Clean and Jerk 400lbs @ 180bw or run a 10.0 natually, then he is not gonna get a medal regardless of PED usage.


X2

mephistopheles wrote:

Elite olympic athlets today doesn't acutally take a lot PEDs.


no AAS only GH.

>

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mephistopheles
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Well, they still uses AAS, but they tend to get busted for it. Look at those countries that no long have goverment funed drug research programmmes. They have to take "regular" AAS, and take the risk of getting caught. e.g Bulgarian Weightlifting team tested positive for dbol in 2008, yeah the whole team. WADA tend to focus on certain nations, if they suddenly get really good. E.g Greece, Turky, Ukraine, India

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Mr NO
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mephistopheles wrote:
Well, they still uses AAS, but they tend to get busted for it. Look at those countries that no long have goverment funed drug research programmmes. They have to take "regular" AAS, and take the risk of getting caught. e.g Bulgarian Weightlifting team tested positive for dbol in 2008, yeah the whole team. WADA tend to focus on certain nations, if they suddenly get really good. E.g Greece, Turky, Ukraine, India


Not so "Elite", once you get busted :)

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Alpha F
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Join date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3167

Brook wrote:
mephistopheles wrote:
The peptide are "current generation", they can be detected within 24 hours of administration via blood test. So the risk is pretty low.

Consumers today demand very high standards in sport. There are money to be made in broadcasting rights, advertising, tickets etc. So basically everyone is supporting PED usage indirectly. So many professional athletes have to dope up with meet the demand. Amateur sports are even worse, those scums in IOC set the qualification standards so high, and at the same time demand strict drug testing! Well, at least no one gets tested in WSM.

I agree.


X2

On this point raised by Mephis I disagree with BBB on the grounds that the demand for world records and relentless pursuit for gold medals are unrealistic standards of performance ( or aesthetics in case of BB ) and therefore demand elite supplementation. I believe the reason Marion Jones succumbed to enhancement was to be able to continue to deliver to the unrealistic demands placed upon her elite performance - she wouldn't need to if allowed to rest long enough to recover naturally or the athletic diary allowed for her to take a break/miss an event for as long as her already elite genetics deemed necessary.
One thing is to have power another is to be able to sustain power for prolonged periods of time. Being the best today should be sufficient and let another be the best tomorrow - being the best in an imperfect body and imperfect world and staying that way is an illusion that contradicts reality, specially a reality where more and more opportunities are being given to a greater pool of talent to chose from. As we level the playing field ( we have not even gone into many underdeveloped countries to give children enough protein to think clearly let alone build muscle ) this reality will become more and more elusive. Under ideal conditions more people will come forward and have a place in the sun, so to speak.
The pressure to stay at the top endlessly under such circumstances is simply not a reality compatible with being human.
That would mean being superhuman and requires 'supermentlation'.
This it is no different from the world of finance where high achievers making obscene amounts of money are also regular cocaine users and whatever else it takes for them to continue to meet the deadlines the system relentless places on them and secure the top jobs and the top positions.

The system sends the message that no matter how good you are, no matter how elite you are - it is never good enough. Hence, I thing this hypocrisy needs to end and some form of intelligent enhancement/supplementation should be allowed and done out in the open. The best would then be those with access to prime substances and specialists ( Noticed be given to how more athletes clocked world records in the world swimming championships just past, when more people had access to specialized swimsuits and not only Michael Phelps with the exclusive Speedo Fastskin materials ).

Allow it. Let them all have it.
And may the strongest not have his/her head blown up in the track and field, cycledrome, pitch, pool, contest, etc.
Then we can call blame on whom it really belongs; the conditional system that demands us to meet their unrealistic pursuits of perfection.

Unless there is a change in our attitude towards deficiency there will always be fraud to sustain our high minded ideals of efficiency.

If who we are is not sufficient then bring on the drugs.

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WyldFlower
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There is a new drug called Hemopure which is replacing EPO. Probably no good for you and only for those doing endurance events, but there's no test for hemopure. You can do hemopure quite safely and confidently without fear of failing a test for it if you're like an endurance person, cos there's no test for it.

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OTS1
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Join date: Apr 2009
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The IOC WADA stance on PED's turns every strength/speed/power/endurance athlete into a liar. It is absolutely disgusting what a motivated future Olympian has to do to himself ethically in order to compete.

If the IOC has a problem with drug use, we should limit events to ping pong and curling. Even archers and rifle shooters use PED's for fucks sake.

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Alpha F
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OTS1 wrote:
The IOC WADA stance on PED's turns every strength/speed/power/endurance athlete into a liar. It is absolutely disgusting what a motivated future Olympian has to do to himself ethically in order to compete.

If the IOC has a problem with drug use, we should limit events to ping pong and curling. Even archers and rifle shooters use PED's for fucks sake.


LOL!

I agree.

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