The Intelligent & Relentless Pursuit of Muscle™
Steroids
 
Clenbuterol Effects and Bodyweight
1
 

slauge
Level

Join date: May 2009
Location:
Posts: 23

Today I took 120 mcg clenbuterol. I did the same thing yesterday. And during the course of the past week, I tapered up to this from 40 mcg. However, I have felt no side-effects whatsoever at any point. In fact, I don't even think I'm losing that much weight. It feels like I probably would have lost the same weight without clen.

Now I got these pills from a highly reputable source, and a smaller friend of mine tried the very same batch(same order even) with massive side-effects as well as results. My friend even called me up just after the first 40mcg saying:"I'm shaking and sweating uncontrolably! I'm scared! What should I do?".

While researching the proper dosages long before I ordered the pills, I came across a few voices claiming that bodyweight really doesn't factor into it particularly. Basically that I should use the same dosage as smaller guys. I weigh 259 lbs right now so I could imagine that this is the problem and that I should just up my dosage. However, I know a lot of people say that you should always increase the dosage with clen to the maximum level where the sides are still tolerable. I did not do that this time however, because it seems I'm going to need a lot more clen in that case.

I was wondering what the general opinion of T-Nation was regarding how to adjust the dosage of clen to your bodyweight. Hence the post.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

The Manthony
Level

Join date: Aug 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 1345

i had clen powder and was taking heaped teaspoons several times a day at one point. in my opinion the ECA Stack is way more effective. Reading up on the effects of both, id say clens good for muscle preservation but it didnt feel like my metabolism was accelerated at all!

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

The Manthony
Level

Join date: Aug 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 1345

thats probably not very helpful... but give ephedrine a try. and V-Diet while you are doing it.. i got shredded in only 4 weeks that way.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Brook
Level

Join date: Jul 2008
Location:
Posts: 4262

The Manthony wrote:
i had clen powder and was taking heaped teaspoons several times a day at one point. in my opinion the ECA Stack is way more effective. Reading up on the effects of both, id say clens good for muscle preservation but it didnt feel like my metabolism was accelerated at all!


It simply was not real. A teaspoon of Clen or albuterol WILL kill you.

When i was very yound i took a 'line' of my asthma inhaler.. it near lilled me, that was albuterol and likely 250mg or so.. a teaspoon is approx. 5 grams, and clen is dosed SIGNIFANTLY lower than Albuterol (alb-16mg/day clen-200mCg/day).

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

slauge
Level

Join date: May 2009
Location:
Posts: 23

Yes, I've had much better luck with ephedrine. People may be laughing at my "Herbal Stacker 2", but something needs to be reevaluated when a few of those is pure dynamite compared to 120mcg of clenbuterol.

A thought that has occurred is however that those to drugs may use the same and similar receptors, and the fact that I used ECA before has caused receptor downregulation.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

warriorathlete
Level

Join date: Mar 2009
Location:
Posts: 20

how long have you backed off from the ECA before starting clen?

Clen holds a special place in my heart like for some others here on the board, but unless you watch your diet it probably wont help much. Also 120mcg clen taken in the form of tabs vs 120mcg liquid clen has had alot of difference for me; it was literally shake city for me on the liquid lol so much so i had to back down because i was trembling and shaking even during my workouts and that aint smart when im squatting.

i personally wouldnt go over half your bodyweight in lbs, so 260lbs wld work out to 130mcg imo

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

slauge
Level

Join date: May 2009
Location:
Posts: 23

warriorathlete wrote:
how long have you backed off from the ECA before starting clen?

Clen holds a special place in my heart like for some others here on the board, but unless you watch your diet it probably wont help much. Also 120mcg clen taken in the form of tabs vs 120mcg liquid clen has had alot of difference for me; it was literally shake city for me on the liquid lol so much so i had to back down because i was trembling and shaking even during my workouts and that aint smart when im squatting.

i personally wouldnt go over half your bodyweight in lbs, so 260lbs wld work out to 130mcg imo


Actually, I thought they used more different receptors and didn't really allow for any off-time at all between ECA and clen. I stopped ECA one day and started clen the next. I suspect that was a mistake? I'm sort of new to this stuff I guess. Throughout the years, I've been one those guys so intent on staying natural that I didn't even use caffine.

I'm taking pills, not liquid clen. 40mcg each.

As for my diet and exercise programmes, they are really strict(which means I measure everything and make a note of it, and do not allow for any cheat meals whatsoever, and I never miss workouts). I probably couldn't increase training volume or lower my calories very much at all without getting a cold or something.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Brook
Level

Join date: Jul 2008
Location:
Posts: 4262

slauge wrote:
"..Throughout the years, I've been one those guys so intent on staying natural that I didn't even use caffine.."


Can i politely ask - what happened to change your stance so drastically?

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

slauge
Level

Join date: May 2009
Location:
Posts: 23

Brook wrote:
slauge wrote:
"..Throughout the years, I've been one those guys so intent on staying natural that I didn't even use caffine.."

Can i politely ask - what happened to change your stance so drastically?


It's extremely complicated. And probably highly personal as well :). Not to mention off topic ;)

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Brook
Level

Join date: Jul 2008
Location:
Posts: 4262

If you don't want to say - that's fine.

I understand that most people who have decided to begin using PED after already deciding that they would be absolute naturals, have a hard time dealing with the decision - but please don't pretend it is 'complicated' or 'off topic' - they are very poor excuses. Besides, a simple 'i'd rather not get into it if you don't mind' would have sufficed - it is after all no-one's business except your's..

Thanks anyway.

By the way, the idea of tapering up is to get used to the drug, and to titrate up to the highest dose possible with the least sides.. the idea is you keep going until it is uncomfortable, back off by a pill or two and run that for a little.

I might be tempted to stop for a couple of weeks to give the receptors a rest, then start again from 100mcg and go from there. Some take a good 200mcg/day - i personally am sensitive to it and cant manage much over 80mcg..

As for bodyweight - it depends, IF it did have a factor, it would be lean bodyweight not adipose - although i do not believe it is a factor in dosing with this drug. What's your percentage, unless that is too personal?

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

slauge
Level

Join date: May 2009
Location:
Posts: 23

Brook wrote:
If you don't want to say - that's fine.

I understand that most people who have decided to begin using PED after already deciding that they would be absolute naturals, have a hard time dealing with the decision - but please don't pretend it is 'complicated' or 'off topic' - they are very poor excuses. Besides, a simple 'i'd rather not get into it if you don't mind' would have sufficed - it is after all no-one's business except your's..

Thanks anyway.

By the way, the idea of tapering up is to get used to the drug, and to titrate up to the highest dose possible with the least sides.. the idea is you keep going until it is uncomfortable, back off by a pill or two and run that for a little.

I might be tempted to stop for a couple of weeks to give the receptors a rest, then start again from 100mcg and go from there. Some take a good 200mcg/day - i personally am sensitive to it and cant manage much over 80mcg..

As for bodyweight - it depends, IF it did have a factor, it would be lean bodyweight not adipose - although i do not believe it is a factor in dosing with this drug. What's your percentage, unless that is too personal?


It IS complicated, and it most certainly is off topic :D. Besides, it's not like it matters anyways. I haven't made any promises to anyone and I don't care about what the law says as long as I'm getting away with it.

Yes, I was also thinking of going off the stuff for a while. I took 160 mcg today, just to see if I got any reaction at all. Nothing.

As for lean body mass, that part is less complicated, less personal and clearly more on topic ;). I'm at 20% bf as of monday, tested in a bod pod. I've been training for 7½ years, and my best RAW results are around 1200 total for bench/deadlift/squat. I.e. I have an intermediate level physique.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Brook
Level

Join date: Jul 2008
Location:
Posts: 4262

So.. are you into PL then?

I assume you are looking to lose some of the fat?
Clen tends to work best alongside a restricted calorie diet and plenty of cardio - have you changed your training somewhat, in order to boost metabolism some more.. or are you sticking with the heavy stuff?

How's your diet - or are you only here for advice on the clen? If so - i would do as i mentioned above.. ;)

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

slauge
Level

Join date: May 2009
Location:
Posts: 23

Brook wrote:
So.. are you into PL then?

I assume you are looking to lose some of the fat?
Clen tends to work best alongside a restricted calorie diet and plenty of cardio - have you changed your training somewhat, in order to boost metabolism some more.. or are you sticking with the heavy stuff?

How's your diet - or are you only here for advice on the clen? If so - i would do as i mentioned above.. ;)


I'm not a powerlifter(that's why all the lifts are raw, I don't own gear). But I have competed in a few meets after I was talent scouted back in 07 by a local team. My main goal has always been hypertrophy. I used to be sort of a Max-OT devotee a few years ago and have basically modified these principles for workouts, cardio and diet just slightly throughout the years to get something that really seems to work on me. That is, I basically just train with heavy weights to failure.

My body seems to require really low energy intakes to lose weight, so for the duration of this diet, I have been at around 1800-1900 calories a day. The results have been excellent so far, and believe it or not, I have actually gained a slight bit of strength while cutting down from 275 lbs.

For cardio, I use an exercise bike from time to time for high intensity cardio(not while on stimulants though), I take walks, and I run. I may be a bit heavy for running with respect to knee injuries, but my shoes are good, I feel fine and I'm only 23 so I think I'm okay.

And yes, I basically came here for tips on clen. Mostly to get an answer to the question of whether the ephedra I took ruined this clen-cycle, or what else may have caused the complete lack of clenbuterol effects. But if you have any other thoughts you would like to share, I am of course thankful for any feedback that you may have.

My goal right now is to get as ripped as possible as fast as I can, without the use of methods directly harmful to my health of course.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Westclock
Level

Join date: Aug 2008
Location:
Posts: 3502

Clen and ephedra have similar method of action on the receptors.


Remember you can help upregulate the receptors with bendryll, take it at night to help you sleep.



And at Brooks, rofl 250mg of albuterol, your lucky you didn't stroke the fuck out.


His powder might have been dosed differently, probably was cut pretty heavily with something.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

slauge
Level

Join date: May 2009
Location:
Posts: 23

Thanks for the tip! Do you have any take on how long it usually takes for the receptors to downregulate significantly while on say 120 mg ephedrine a day? 2 weeks or 2 months?

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Westclock
Level

Join date: Aug 2008
Location:
Posts: 3502

slauge wrote:
Thanks for the tip! Do you have any take on how long it usually takes for the receptors to downregulate significantly while on say 120 mg ephedrine a day? 2 weeks or 2 months?




Well as soon as it stops working you will know.

If you dont feel much of anything, then your pretty much downregulated.


Most people its about 4 weeks.


By 2 weeks your partially downregulated enough to be very noticeable, hence the common 2 on 2 off principle.




The body starts downregulating the day you take the first dose, it just takes a while before its significant enough to require stopping.






Im not much of a fan of the standard dosing strategies, as I get adrenal fatigue, and dont feel that its very effective except during cardio.


I use albuterol and I use it once or twice a week at a lower dose right before cardio.


You dont downregulate yourself because albuterol has a short half life and your not using it often enough to matter.


You still see MOST of the benefits of an albuterol cycle because its really only significantly effective during cardio in the first place in my experience.



Plus albuterol allows for more efficient oxygen delivery, meaning you can run faster easier.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

slauge
Level

Join date: May 2009
Location:
Posts: 23

Okay, that tears it then. I'm going to stop taking them right away, save what little clen I have left and hope I have better use for it in two weeks! I still have plenty of the ECA-stuff to use later I guess.

I'm actually thinking of taking ECA tomorrow, just to compare with how it made me feel the last day I took them(sunday 1½ week ago). If I can't feel anything, then I'll be completely sure that I've been thoroughly downregulated.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Dynamo Hum
Level

Join date: Jul 2008
Location:
Posts: 1809

I came across this on another board. I found it interesting:

Clenbuterol cycle plan with T3 & Ketotifen, the ultimate stacked cycle.

I put this together from a sight and deleted all the bullshit adds and what not but this is really good read the WHOLE thing and I would like feedback on this post please! thanks ! FLEXX

For those who have a lot of weight to lose, or have been fighting the weight for years with no reaction, there are some Clenbuterol stacks that will push your body to the limit of its fat burning capabilities.

You will need: Clenbuterol Hydrochloride 40mcg Tablets (Tiny White Tablet), T3 Cytomix 80mcg Tablets (Yellow Tablet) and Ketotifen 1mg Tablets (Larger White Tablet with Score).

For women you will need 100x 40mcg Clenbuterol tabs. 100 x Cytomix Tablets and 100 x 1mg Ketotifen Tabs. This can be purchased HERE.

For men you will need 200 x 40mcg Clenbuterol tabs. 100 x Cytomix Tablets and 100 x 1mg Ketotifen Tabs. This can be purchased HERE (this may last a man longer than the first cycle but this is hard to tell in advance if you have never taken Clenbuterol, as you will discover below).

The Clenbuterol will raise your bodies temperature and heartrate, therefore burning more calories per hour. Normally your body will not get any effect from Clenbuterol after 3 weeks, but this is why we take it with Ketotifen.

The Ketotifen will keep your Beta 2 receptors in good shape, meaning you can use Clenbuterol for longer up to 6 weeks. (Clenbuterol can not safely be used for longer than 3 weeks, without a 3 week break, unless you are using Ketotifen daily from the second week).

The T3 Cytomix will stimulate your thyroid increasing your metabolism.

This is a 9 Week Cycle

The Clenbuterol is taken every day, in the morning, from week 1 to week 6.
The Ketotifen is taken everyday, before bed, in weeks 2-6
The T3 Cytomel is taken everyday in weeks 1-3 & 7-9 (giving you 3 weeks on, 3 weeks off, 3 weeks on)

Special Attention needs to be paid to the start AND end of your 6 Weeks of Clenbuterol, start with a small dose for the first 2 days, the a slightly higher dose for another 2 days and then your max/recommended dose for the remainder of the cycle. When you come to the end of the cycle, reverse the process, taking slightly less for 2 days, then slightly less for another 2 days and then stopping.

THE FIRST TIME YOU TAKE CLENBUTEROL: You must establish for yourself what is the correct dosage. For a woman it will be between 40-100mcg, for a man between 80-160mcg. You start on 20-40mcg for a couple of days, then you raise to 40-80mcg for a couple more days.. at this point you should ??feel?? the clenbuterol working, if your hands are shaking slightly, don??t worry that should subside in a day, if it does not you are taking slightly too much and you need to reduce your dose 20-40mcg. So it??s the point where your taking just less than the amount that makes your hands tremble that you want to find and this is your MAX dose. You want to be taking enough Clenbuterol to be ??feeling it?? when your doing your workout, but not so much that your hands are shaking and making you feel uncomfortable.

EXTRA Special Attention needs to be paid to the start AND end of your 3 weeks usage of T3 Cytomel. You must also start on a low dose and gradually work your way up, but it is far more important with T3 than with Clenbuterol.

For Cytomix 80mcg Tablets (60mcg of T3 mixed with 20mcg of T4)
Start on 1/2 a pill a day for the first 2 days, then 1 pill a day for 2 days, then 1 1/2 pills per day for the remainder of the 3 weeks, until the end when you MUST reverse this process.

Ketotifen take 2 tablets a day everyday before bed from week 2-6.
The thing to remember about Ketotifen is that is makes you drowsy and you should not take it in the morning or before driving your car.

Taking Ketotifen DOES NOT MEAN YOU CAN DO T3 FOR LONGER THAN 3 WEEKS, YOU CAN NEVER DO T3 FOR LONGER THAN 3 WEEKS.



CLENBUTEROL:

Firstly let??s get straight what Clenbuterol is and is not,

Clenbuterol is a drug that helps create good conditions for your body to lose weight (increased heart rate, increased body temperature).

Clenbuterol is not a ??diet pill??

Clenbuterol is not an appetite suppressant

So if you are taking Clenbuterol to help you burn off fat while doing your workouts, you can certainly take other drugs that do not do the same thing (some drugs that should NEVER be combined with Clenbuterol are Phentermine/Ephedrine/Adderall/Albuterol)

You can take an appetite suppressant, we recommend Acomplia (Rimonabant) and we have that for sale right here.

You can take Thyroid medications like T3 Cytomel or T4 Synthroid, these speed your metabolism by stimulating your thyroid, so this is a completely different effect on the body to Clenbuterol. These are also available for sale here.

Other drugs we can not really comment about, your doctor or pharmacist can advise.


T3:

T3 Cytomel is the common brand name for the drug Liothyronine Sodium.
T4 Sythroid is the common brand name for the drug Levothyroxine Sodium, also know as L-Thyroxine or just Thyroxine Sodium.

T4 Synthroid and T3 Cytomel are both prescription thyroid drugs.

T4 Synthroid is broken down into T3 Cytomel later in the day, so you can use T4 Synthroid as a replacement for T3 Cytomel. T4 must be used in much higher doses to be as effective as T3. Subjects found they needed to use a dosage of 200-300 mcg/day to achieve the same results as 75-100 mcg/day of T3 (Cytomel).

T3 Cytomel is a drug that stimulates your Thyroid, once your thyroid is stimulated your metabolism is raised and then you burn more calories per hour.

One must be very careful when using T3, it can only be used for three weeks at a time. After a three week cycle you must stop for three weeks.

One must also be careful to start on a low dose, gradually working up, and also at the end of the three weeks finish on a low dose, after gradually reducing the dose.

Now there are quite a few doses of T3 Cytomel tablets available on the market, so be sure to know the dose and make sure you get ir right. The three main strengths are 25mcg, 60mcg mixed with 20mcg T4 (This is Cytomix a very popular tablet) or 100mcg. The 25mcg tablets are often very expensive compared with the other two, so we recommend avoiding these ones.

If you are using the Cytomix 80mcg Tablets (60mcg T3/20mcg T4) you should take them like this.

Days 1, 2 & 3 - Take a 1/2 a tablet per day
Days 4 ,5 & 6 - Take a whole tablet per day
Days 7 - 15 - Take 1.5 tablets per day
Days 16, 17 & 18 - Reduce to 1 tablet per day
Days 19, 20 & 21 - Reduce to 1/2 a tablet per day

Then stop for three weeks.

If you are using the Cytomel 100mcg Tablets (100mcg T3) you should take them like this.

Days 1 & 2 - Take 1/4 of a tablet per day
Days 3 & 4 - Take a 1/2 of a tablet per day
Days 4, 5 & 6 - Take 3/4 of a tablet per day
Days 7 - 14 - Take 1 tablet per day
Days 15, 16 & 17 - Reduce to 3/4 of a tablet per day
Days 18 & 19 - Reduce to 1/2 of a tablet per day
Days 20 & 21 - Reduce to 1/4 of a tablet per day

Then stop for three weeks.

Of course if you are using the expensive 25mcg Tablets the you can use this same cycle, but each 1/4 tablet = 1 x 25mcg tablet.

Remember? even if you are using Ketotifen (which allows longer use of Clenbuterol) the maximum cycle of T3 is three weeks.

T3 Cytomel (Liothyronine Sodium) Tablets, are a medication for Thyroid. Using T3 Cytomel will increase your bodies metabolism, and make you burn calories and fat very quickly.



So which is better? Clenbuterol or T3 Cytomel?

The answer varies from person to person, but this much is certain for anybody? taking them both, together for 3 weeks, then stopping for 3 weeks and so on, is THE FASTEST way to burn fat and lose weight of anything on the market today, forget about Phentermine, ECA Stack, Hoodia and Xenical? Clen & T3 Cytomel stacked together is the best.

Now if you are just starting out, you might want to just take one or the other, my advise is STILL to take both, but to alternate 3 weeks of Clenbuterol then 3 weeks of T3 Cytomel, this means your body is always being stimulated in some way to make you lose weight, but your always resting your body from one of the medications for 3 weeks (neither T3 nor Clenbuterol can be used for longer than 3 weeks without requiring a 3 week break).

Finally if you must use one or the other, then yes Clenbuterol is stronger, better, and will burn fat faster?

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

slauge
Level

Join date: May 2009
Location:
Posts: 23

I just returned from the gym where I had an awesome workout. I didn't take any clenbuterol this morning. I took my standard morning dose of ECA from before, just to see if I was severely downregulated. I was not. Within an hour, my scalp and face tingled, my heart rate was up, my penis had shrunk to nothingness and I started feeling the emotional effects of ephedrine( http://tnation.tmuscle.com/...ageNo=0#3093585 ) again.

The effect was at the very least as good as last time I took them I think. It is starting to look like I'm in one of three possible cases.

1. Clenbuterol really doesn't work that well on me. I'm special for some reason.
2. My "friend" pulled the ol' switcharoo on me. That is stole my pills and replaced them with placebo.
3. I AM severely downregulated from the ephedrine, it's just that I'm using such a high dosage of them that I feel the effects clearly anyway, and I should furthermore lay of them for a while if I want to stay safe.

I guess I would have to suspect that option 3 is the most likely one. I mean, I got severe withdrawal symptoms when I stopped ECA and started clen on 40mcg the day after. That shouldn't have happened if they use basically the same receptors and the doses are comparable.

In the name of science however, I don't think I'll go off the stimulants completely right now. I'm going to save my clen for another time as I said before, but I'll lower doses of the ECA and see what happens.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

The Manthony
Level

Join date: Aug 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 1345

Brook wrote:
The Manthony wrote:
i had clen powder and was taking heaped teaspoons several times a day at one point. in my opinion the ECA Stack is way more effective. Reading up on the effects of both, id say clens good for muscle preservation but it didnt feel like my metabolism was accelerated at all!

It simply was not real. A teaspoon of Clen or albuterol WILL kill you.

When i was very yound i took a 'line' of my asthma inhaler.. it near lilled me, that was albuterol and likely 250mg or so.. a teaspoon is approx. 5 grams, and clen is dosed SIGNIFANTLY lower than Albuterol (alb-16mg/day clen-200mCg/day).


brook, i dont know what to say.. i have a vet grade container of Clenbuterol Hydrochloride. bronchodialator for horses.. and i was taking a heaped teaspoon every morning. my mate who i train with 4 times a week gave it to me and said it was too powerful for him and he was shaking like a vibrator.

i felt a slight buzz but nothing like the side effects my mate copped. could it be possible that my body just doesnt respond to it??? or should i be freaking DEAD!??

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Brook
Level

Join date: Jul 2008
Location:
Posts: 4262

It could be possible, sure. ;)

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Westclock
Level

Join date: Aug 2008
Location:
Posts: 3502

The Manthony wrote:
Brook wrote:
The Manthony wrote:
i had clen powder and was taking heaped teaspoons several times a day at one point. in my opinion the ECA Stack is way more effective. Reading up on the effects of both, id say clens good for muscle preservation but it didnt feel like my metabolism was accelerated at all!

It simply was not real. A teaspoon of Clen or albuterol WILL kill you.

When i was very yound i took a 'line' of my asthma inhaler.. it near lilled me, that was albuterol and likely 250mg or so.. a teaspoon is approx. 5 grams, and clen is dosed SIGNIFANTLY lower than Albuterol (alb-16mg/day clen-200mCg/day).

brook, i dont know what to say.. i have a vet grade container of Clenbuterol Hydrochloride. bronchodialator for horses.. and i was taking a heaped teaspoon every morning. my mate who i train with 4 times a week gave it to me and said it was too powerful for him and he was shaking like a vibrator.

i felt a slight buzz but nothing like the side effects my mate copped. could it be possible that my body just doesnt respond to it??? or should i be freaking DEAD!??



What was the dosing.


Teaspoons of clen is deadly.


Teaspoons of a powder that contains 200mcg of clen isn't deadly.


Never seen anyone not respond to clen at a high enough dose, never seen anyone go over 400mcg.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
1
Topic is Locked
This thread has reached its maximum number of replies. Click HERE to start a new topic.