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Drop Arimidex When Adding Nolva?
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Hip Scar
Level 100

Join date: Feb 2007
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 1482

The question is: If you expirience gyno symptoms while on a cycle do you drop taking Arimidex when you add in the Nolva or just keep taking it at the dosage you were previously at, in addtion to the Nolva?

...maybe there is no deffinitive answer but personal expiriences welcome.

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jasoncga
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Join date: Jun 2009
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 56

For me, I increase my adex and nolva. Since I know Im susceptible to gyno I normally run nolva and adex the whole way through, if I find its not enough I start with increasing the nolva (normally from 20 to 40 a day) then just go from there.

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winkroar3
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Join date: Aug 2008
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It's strange you would get gyno while on adex unless your adex was dosed way to low. If this was the case I would raise the adex up to 1mg/day and add in Nolva. This is a tried and true combination. This will not get
rid of gyno that has set in but will make it unnoticable (in all but the most extreme cases). The letro works
and works well in most cases as well. Cheers.

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Hip Scar
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Join date: Feb 2007
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 1482

I guess maybe it is the gland swelling up due to the Deca - prolactin connection, so that's why the Arimidex would have had zero effect preventing the swell up. My last pin of Deca was last friday so maybe it will chill out in another week.....I will continues running the Nolva and A-dex for the rest of the cycle though.

Thoughts?

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jukebox
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If you are needing a solution to gyno resulting from prolactin issues, adex nor nolva will solve the problem. Adex lowers estrogen levels, and nolva is a SERM, both affecting estrogen effects in the body...but neither have any effect on the prolactin. A dopamine antagonist is needed to combat the prolactin.

From my research to find the best PCT protocal for myself, I have read article after article on how arimidex and nolvadex hinder each other's actions inside the body. Total opposite of what you want on cycle or post cycle for estrogen management and HPTA recovery after cycle.

I use deca and tren very low dosed, if I use it at all, to prevent these prolactin problems. I do not know correct dosing for dopamine antagonists. Many others here do.

Goodluck.

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Cortes
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Join date: Mar 2005
Location: Japan
Posts: 7145

OP, if you are having prolactin issues and arimidex and nolvadex are both ineffective, you should, indeed, start using a dopamine agonist like cabergoline or bromocriptine as soon as possible. I have screwed this up in the past and ended up with the actual enlarged gland that now is permanent.

However, if this is happening to you as we speak and you have not already got something on hand to take care of this problem then you may just be SOL. At the least, if I were you, I would up my adex dosage to something pretty high like well over 1mg/day until things at least calm down. I don't know if this will help or not, though. This is one of the reasons I now use letrozole instead of arimidex, as I find that when I do start to get issues like liquid coming from my nipples or a sensitivity or growing of that gland, a quick bump up of letrozole is usually all it takes to have everything back to normal in just about 2 days.

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Hip Scar
Level 100

Join date: Feb 2007
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 1482

Good stuff! I have some letro so i will drop the Arimidex and Nolva and giveit a try for a few days, well I will prbably hit the nolva one more time to let the letro kick into. Thanks.

Cortes wrote:
OP, if you are having prolactin issues and arimidex and nolvadex are both ineffective, you should, indeed, start using a dopamine agonist like cabergoline or bromocriptine as soon as possible. I have screwed this up in the past and ended up with the actual enlarged gland that now is permanent.

However, if this is happening to you as we speak and you have not already got something on hand to take care of this problem then you may just be SOL. At the least, if I were you, I would up my adex dosage to something pretty high like well over 1mg/day until things at least calm down. I don't know if this will help or not, though. This is one of the reasons I now use letrozole instead of arimidex, as I find that when I do start to get issues like liquid coming from my nipples or a sensitivity or growing of that gland, a quick bump up of letrozole is usually all it takes to have everything back to normal in just about 2 days.


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Brook
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Join date: Jul 2008
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Actually mate, if it is gyno then estrogen is absolutely necessary for that to happen - so an AI WILL work just fine.

Just as with lactation - many think it is down just to prolactin.. it isn't. If you have raised estrogen, prolactin and progesterone - then you will NOT lactate. It doesnt happen.. when the progesterone drops however, leaving the estrogen and prolactin high - you will begin to lactate.

In this case also, an AI will solve the issue.

The only time when a DA is needed to combat prolactin is not related to gyno or lactation. it is if the prolactin is raised causing further suppression and/or reducing the libido.

It doesn't hurt to reduce the hormone of course, but estrogen also needs to be controlled.

take the guy who was asking arrogantly about winny for prolactin. it wouldnt work but it may reduce the progestin level - which may leave high estrogen and prolactin levels - leading to lactation.

It is a balance that is tough to control but IMO for gyno you cannot go wrong with an AI ;)

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KSman
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Brook nailed it. Adex should do the job, but you do not want to lower E2 to the point that makes you unwell. But the gyno needs a silver bullet. Using a effective AI dose plus a SERM will be the double barreled shotgun that you need short term that will allow for lower but still healthy levels of estrogen.

Often letro will create very low E2 levels that can mess with your mental state and libido. You can try letro, but be watchful and pull back on the dose if you feel messed up. One's Letro dose-response does not seem to be predictable.

I have no idea if SERMs can interfere with prolactin receptors. No reason to expect that that would happen. If prolactin is that high, libido would be tanked. But if the actions of prolactin on breast tissue cannot happen without estrogen receptor activation [thanks Brook], then a SERM should be helpful even if prolactin levels are otherwise troublesome.

I rant, as an outsider, that all cycles that can aromatize should utilize adex all through the cycle, PCT and past that, in appropriate amounts. This typically results in some objections. Elevated estrogen levels should never be accepted, for several reasons.

Past accepted practice can simply be wrong for some and non-optimal for all. We do see lots of adverse outcomes here and in the TRT context that seem to defeat the arguments that high androgen levels will competitively block estrogen at ER's or out compete the influence of [E] activated ER's. We know what the optimal E2 levels seems to be [serum E2=22pg/ml] in a TRT context.

The concept of an optimal level of E2 in the context of gear should not be swept from consideration. When one struggles in the gym and spends huge amounts of money, pain, dedication to diet, supplements and gear, E levels should be controlled.

For those who are professional BB's, -what do you want to do that is sub-optimal? When guys indicate that their criteria for having to take an AI is bloat or gyno and everything else is fine, I see a problem in understanding and a big problem for some.

On the flip side I get some young guys with complete long lasting?permanent HPTA damage from stupid cycles... not that than has anything to do with -knowledgeable- readers here; the point is that I am perhaps more in tune or aware than others here will be, to some of the adverse things that happen to one degree or another. I hope that I have not over argued my point.

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