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Robert A
Level 5

Join date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2063

RE: Barnett

He lost to Cormier and got caught and KO'd by Travis Brown. Between those he took out Frank Mir(which may or may not be the accomplishment it once was).

It wasn't so much the fact DC beat him, but how he beat him. DC outwrestled and out grappled him. He basically manhandled Barnett. I think that is still a big accomplishment, especially given the size difference. By comparison Barnett submitted Dean Lister not to long ago in a grappling match and Lister is still world class in grappling (albeit he was outweighed in their match) and hadn't been submitted for years.

RE: Cormier vs Jones

I get what you guys are saying about reach. Normally I would side with it, and I will go even further and say that a lot of tall for division MMA fighters have found "even taller" to be their kryptonite (See Diaz vs Condit for example). Where I think DC is different is he brings the willingness and ability to close and damage the taller man, just like Cain does at heavy. I don't think he will hang out at range like Sherk against Penn or Penn vs Diaz for that matter.

Cormier's wrestling could give him the edge in clinches, or at least keep Jones honest. Jones can manhandle most people, and that lets him do things he might otherwise not. If the clinch wasn't "safe ground" for him it could throw him way off his game.

RE: Glover Texiera vs...

I would watch Glover fight anyone. I just like watching him fight. He has Phil Davis next, which will be interesting. Davis has the wrestling ability to take Texiera out of the stalk and KO comfort zone. I am still picking Glover to win.

RE: Anthony Johnson

I don't think he gets a shot soon, first and foremost because his weight shenanigans make him a bigger promo risk than Barnett's seeming unwillingness or inability to pass drug tests.

I know that risk should be limited by fighting at 205, but it still has to weight in from a business standpoint. He has also been plagued with injuries, that might be explained by cutting so damn much weight so often though. He also only has two UFC wins at LH. He decisioned Davis, and KO'd Diet Nog in a fight where Nog tried to apply the "head movement is gay, and makes you not get into heaven" style of boxing that there is no way he had when he earned his Pan Am chops.

On the other hand he beat Arloski at HW so he has the "destructive force" chops. I would like to see him fight Glover, Gustoffson, or Rashad Evans. Wins over any of those 3, with no weigh in or injury issues, would make him a good contender in my mind.

Regards,

Robert A

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Sentoguy
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6118

Audio,

Let me clarify my position by saying that I would like to watch AG fight AJ and am also interested in seeing the best fighters fight each other. But, I don't think that having two of your only real interesting title contenders fight each other prior to fighting for the title is the best use of the talent present in the division. Would that fight be any less interesting after they have both had title shots? Maybe, maybe not. But if you have them fight (and let's say Jones defends against DC, if he doesn't that opens up the division and a bunch more interesting fights) and then have the winner fight Jones for the title and he again defends, who is next? Let's say Jones wins impressively over the winner of the AG vs AJ match and the winner of that fight won decidedly. Are you really going to be excited about seeing a guy who just got whooped by a guy that Jones just whooped fight Jones? I know that's going to make the match-up less interesting for me (I'd still watch it of course, but would be less "worried" about Jones defending the title). Or worse yet, what if the winner gets injured in the process? Now what do you do? Have the loser fight for the title? Put the title on hold for an extended time to let the winner heal up?

A dominant champ without real competition (or at least the prospect of real competition) is not nearly as exciting as a champ in a division with a bunch of legit threats to their title. Case in point AS will still probably go down as the greatest MW champ ever (and arguably the best champ in UFC histor period), but the level of competition he held that belt against and legitimate threats to his title were far lower and fewer than say GSP during his fight career (with a few exceptions). I personally don't want to see the LHW division wind up like the MW division during much of AS's reign (prior to Weidman) where you start running out of good match-ups for the champ and start having him fight the equivalent of Thales Leites for the title.

Once you have guys fight for the title, by all means have them fight each other if the match-ups are interesting or to earn a second shot, but not the first time around.

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audiogarden1
Level

Join date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2941

Sentoguy wrote:
Audio,

Let me clarify my position by saying that I would like to watch AG fight AJ and am also interested in seeing the best fighters fight each other. But, I don't think that having two of your only real interesting title contenders fight each other prior to fighting for the title is the best use of the talent present in the division. Would that fight be any less interesting after they have both had title shots? Maybe, maybe not. But if you have them fight (and let's say Jones defends against DC, if he doesn't that opens up the division and a bunch more interesting fights) and then have the winner fight Jones for the title and he again defends, who is next? Let's say Jones wins impressively over the winner of the AG vs AJ match and the winner of that fight won decidedly. Are you really going to be excited about seeing a guy who just got whooped by a guy that Jones just whooped fight Jones? I know that's going to make the match-up less interesting for me (I'd still watch it of course, but would be less "worried" about Jones defending the title). Or worse yet, what if the winner gets injured in the process? Now what do you do? Have the loser fight for the title? Put the title on hold for an extended time to let the winner heal up?

A dominant champ without real competition (or at least the prospect of real competition) is not nearly as exciting as a champ in a division with a bunch of legit threats to their title. Case in point AS will still probably go down as the greatest MW champ ever (and arguably the best champ in UFC histor period), but the level of competition he held that belt against and legitimate threats to his title were far lower and fewer than say GSP during his fight career (with a few exceptions). I personally don't want to see the LHW division wind up like the MW division during much of AS's reign (prior to Weidman) where you start running out of good match-ups for the champ and start having him fight the equivalent of Thales Leites for the title.

Once you have guys fight for the title, by all means have them fight each other if the match-ups are interesting or to earn a second shot, but not the first time around.


I understand what you're saying. I think ive just become jaded when it comes to MMA over the last couple years. Theres so much less excitement and intrigue in the UFC and MMA in general now (for me at least) that im just trying to get as much good stuff now as i can lol

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Sentoguy
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6118

Pretty much agree with what you said Robert, but willingness to engage does not equal the ability to close the distance against someone who knows how to use their reach like Jones does. I'm not saying Cormier couldn't catch JJ with a punch while rushing in, but I don't think it's as likely as him getting caught with a bunch of shots attempting to do so. Jones has literally a foot of reach advantage on Cormier (with his arms, his leg reach is even greater). That is basically the equivalent of him being able to put his hand on DC's head and hold him there at arms length and DC being able to touch him. With just a modicum of backwards circular footwork he can essentially just jab DC in the face and never get caught (especially in an Octagon where there are no real corners to get trapped in like a ring) or even reached by DC. It also means that using his arms to post on DC should he attempt a takedown or to rush in is fairly safe as he'll still be out of reach even if DC fakes a shot and say tries to come over the top with an overhand right.

Seriously, you need to have a LOT of striking skill to overcome that type of reach and a good strategy on top of it (and we are just addressing the hands, a couple good lead leg side kicks to DC's lead knee will slow him down even more and make it even harder to close) and personally I have not seen that kind of skill from Cormier to this point. He could of course surprise me, but I haven't seen it yet.

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