The Intelligent & Relentless Pursuit of Muscle™
Combat
 
Sonnen - Shogun
1
 

devildog_jim
Level

Join date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 696

I guess no one cares about this one.

I'd say it said more about Shogun being past his prime than Sonnen being that good. Although I also thought Stann had a shot, so it may be that I'm just not a Sonnen fan.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Ranzo
Level

Join date: May 2011
Location: Tennessee, USA
Posts: 521

Personally I think Sonnen should move over to standup comedy. I would pay to watch that. He is no pussy but I just don't care to watch him fight. His personality is entertaining but it would be over the top if he was able to go in there and really put a beating on somebody.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Schwarzfahrer
Level

Join date: Jun 2005
Location: Germany
Posts: 3515

The card was good, although the big fights were fairly predictable.

Like the average MMA fan, I was always a fan of Rua, I mean whats not to like about an aggressive thai berserker?
But it seemed very clear that the deck was stacked against him.
The best lay n pray wrestler, an intelligent guy who is in his mental, physical (thanks to no big cut) and chemical (*aehm*) prime?

(I should also add "business prime" - could another fighter get an exclusive arrangement of hand picked opponents like Chael? )

For Shogun, that was ronin-kriptonite.


As for Overeem, they should cut him some slack and rebuild him -he's too valuable.
Give him Mir, Vera, Big Country, Rothwell, someone from the lower half of the heavies' roster.
That should work.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Fistiecuffs
Level

Join date: Sep 2010
Location:
Posts: 241

I love to watch Chael fight because he makes me good money on wagers. Unless your name is Jon Jones or you are well above 205 he will take you down, and when someone can beat just about everyone by takedowns and top control I can take my time and watch. He just keeps on pushing and pushing and no matter if the opponent is superior on the feet or what ever he won't give you a break to impose your game at will and thats something I think a lot of people can learn from.

That being said Shogun is probably my all time favorite fighter and even though I could see a pretty lopsided win going Sonnen's way I sure as hell didn't see it comeing by the way of 1st round submission. I know Shogun would still like to fight for the title one day but as long as he insists on fighting I'd like to see UFC cash in by having him fight some fun fights with other declining fighters, I think him vs. Wand would be great stuff to headline some minor Brazil event or booking the planned diet-Nog fight again.

I would've really liked to see what kind of improvements he has made to his striking working with Roach, at least Freddie seems to believe he has added some significant power to his punches and if he has learned to use a jab that'd be awesome. Hard to tell if an old dog will learn new tricks at this point but it would've been awesome to see.

As for Sonnen I like him as a commentator/analyst, I'm sure I'd like him as a standup comedian, if he wants to beat up Wanderlei next then what the hell, just seems like a very pointless fight to make since I'm having hard time seeing Wand beating him unless he brings a gun to the cage. Fights against Machida and Vitor @185 would've been pretty interesting, even though he has fallen short 4 times in title bouts during his carrier and I can see why people don't want him challenging for that belt ever again I don't see how they can keep him from the title fight if he picks up couple of solid top 10 wins.

Don't know if the third time would be the charm against Ando (maybe if his age will catch up with him sooner than it does with Chael) or how he'd stack up against Weidman but I'd still pay to see it.

I'm feeling really sad for the way things seem to be working with Reem. I was really pumped to see him steamroll his way in to titleshot but in his last two fights he just seems to find a way to lose... First the stupidy against Bigfoot after 10+ minutes of absolute domination and now blowing your gastank faster than Carwin (and with less effort too) and then just standing there eating the same front kick in the face...

Sad and frustrating for a fan to watch, probably even more so when he realises what the fuck just happend. I agree with Schwarz on his next fight, although I'd be a bit vary of booking him against Nelson having seen the way he fights these days.

Nelson will just eat his shots for 5 minutes and then stagger forward throwing that overhand right and I'm not really convinced Reem won't get lazy somewhere along the way and take it square on the face and I don't think UFC really cares to fill Nelson's record with big name wins. Mir, Vera n Rothwell are all fights he should win handily if UFC is where he is going to stay, if he manages to lose any of those he should just go back to Japan...

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Big_Boss
Level

Join date: Sep 2006
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 5765

There's lot of background talk....especially from Shogun's brother...that he just doesn't have the right people around him anymore. Ninja Rua has said that Shogun is pretty much his own coach now. Pretty sad if that's the case.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Aussie Davo
Level

Join date: Jan 2009
Location:
Posts: 1085

I know theres a lot of old school shogun fans here

but I have to say

he hasn't looked good in a long time. Even his win over machida was basically a brawler catching a counter fighter being lazy/ "admiring his work" syndrome. I think he's shot tbh, he always looks drained and tired, is up and down with his conditioning and his technique has degraded dramatically.

He's still dangerous for guys like Vera, but the big dogs of the division are just going to use him to pad their record. Call me a pessimistic cunt, but I think thats when you need to retire unless you have serious money concerns.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Robert A
Level 5

Join date: Jun 2005
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 1948

I don't think Shogun has ever had strong showings against wrestlers. Coleman, even way spent back in UFC Coleman, gave him fits. Add injuries and I expected this to happen. I think Schwarfarher called it correct about how this was picked.

Sonnen smack talking Rogan was funny.

I am really starting to get self doubt over Ubereem. Didn't he win K-1? Big Foot and Brown aren't K-1 level are they? Are they?

Regards,

Robert A

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

kaisermetal
Level 1

Join date: Jul 2006
Location: Brazil
Posts: 3748

I guess it shows how K-1 level striking(which he is a bull while on offense) is also different from DEFENDING without those big ounces gloves.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

DarkNinjaa
Level

Join date: Feb 2011
Location:
Posts: 5422

Reem is done. That was a fucking shocker to see him lose twice in a row. But knowing Dana White, I won't be surprised if he's given one last chance to prove himself. Oh, and he needs to lose some fucking weight. He's been looking all soft and squishy lately.

My man Sonnen performed beautifully. I felt bad for Shogun though. I love both fighters, so it was hard for me to see either of them lose.

I guess, considering his relatively long career in MMA and the absolutely brutal training regime he has endured, the sad reality is, Rua is now spent.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Quiet Warrior
Level

Join date: Sep 2012
Location: Austria
Posts: 202

DarkNinjaa wrote:
Reem is done. That was a fucking shocker to see him lose twice in a row. But knowing Dana White, I won't be surprised if he's given one last chance to prove himself. Oh, and he needs to lose some fucking weight. He's been looking all soft and squishy lately.

The majority of UFC heavyweights look way softer than Alistair.


To be honest I don't even know how Browne survived those brutal bodyshots in the first 2,5 mminutes.
Overeem had him curled up, trapped against the cage and was seconds away from finishing him.
Travis is simply one tough motherfucker and you got to give him mad respect for that.
I mean can you imagine how it feels to get a knee in the stomach from a 260 pound K1 Champion?
Damn, even thinking about that makes me cringe a little.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Schwarzfahrer
Level

Join date: Jun 2005
Location: Germany
Posts: 3515

Yeah, K1 is different than MMA standup.
Pace, rhythm, the everpresent thread of a takedown or clinch.
Kaisermetal has it right, the padding is one serious part of the equation.
But then the KO being a front kick was bizarre.

Still doesn't mean he has not everything in his arsenal to beat Browne's and Bigfoot's ass.

But Reem has a problem: he has not an awesome coach like Browne.
And he needs to get his strategic holes fixed.

On first glance his style is simple as foolproof:

Stalk aggressivly, then either punch/kick with bad intentions, initiate clinch and apply knees from hell.
He was ok, later even very decent on the ground with an above average sprawl.

That made him pretty cool to watch. I was an Overeem fan since I saw him in 2H2H.
His style was rather wild back then: A haymakerin, clinchin pitbull.
Against serious, more refined contenders, that was his biggest minus. Lack of control.
Once they figured him out and weathered the wild clinch storm Alistair was losing.

K1 fighting remade him into Ubereem: he was now patient and powerful with great countering ability.
However the price was the slowly forward plodding Overeem we (again) saw vs Browne.

The new heavies are often light on their feet. Browne, the two champions, Todd "the white dreem " Duffee (whom Overeem beautifully destroyed btw his best MMA Ubereem performance), Mittrione etc
Against these,Thai/K1 footwork @ ~270lbs is often at a stylistic disadvantage in MMA.
Squirly MMA tactics and setups can make it very hard to land these spectacular counterhooks of his.

Overeem, too, felt this way, so he experimented with styles.
During most of his fights, he employed an extremely low stance while being the aggressor. Good vs takedowns and for initiating the clinch, A.'s bread and butter move. However, once on the defense, he falls apart.
His Ubereem tranformation modified this style into what we saw in his last Japan bouts. Great if the other one is coming for you (Duffee). Not so great if the opponent won't come out to play (Werdum).
Versus Bigfoot, used the "lean back to go out" style. Clearly, he tried to exert more control of the fight with more fluidity of the feet.
Versus Browne, he reused his default Ubereem thai stance.

That is not just simple gameplanning. That's quite a difference between two fights.

Now throw in Alistair's tendency to blow his wad too soon and you have a recipe for underachieving.

Greg Jackson, halp!

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

kaisermetal
Level 1

Join date: Jul 2006
Location: Brazil
Posts: 3748

Adding all that, what would be the solution for "The Reem 2013" ?

- Go back to GG

- Have more composure and patience, not blowing his wad

- Do not fall in love with his striking and mix his game even more.

I really don't know, in paper, he have all the tools to be the champion, i cringe everytime someone says that he have a "weak chin" because everybody has a weak chin against a HW punch.

Give him Vera on his next fight? LOL i'm really at a loss here.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
1