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Silva vs. Sonnen II
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studgorilla
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This ought to have great action, and even greater hype. Discuss.

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Aussie Davo
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If silva really did have a broken/fractured rib in their last fight, then it really does call into question just how well Sonnen actually did, and how much it was actually attributed to Anderson's injury.

I love sonnen as a trash talker, as a fighter he's nothing special. Really a one trick pony, great wrestling, boring or inefficient at best in every other aspect.

Silva on point and coming in with a vengeance?

I say either Sonnen gets sparked out by Silva in dramatic fashion, or we get one of Silva's shitty victories where he stands around blaming the other fighter for not engaging, but not actively attempting to engage himself.

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guhkes
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This should be great. And the co-main event also (W Silva vs Belfort).

I just hope, that Sonnen gets alive to the Octagon (and back if he wins) after all that trash talk about Brazilians.

I hope The Spider shuts his pie hole even for a moment. Preferably with some jaw dropping technique. It's not that I like Anderson that much, I just dislike Chael more. I admit that his sometimes funny with good one-liners, but just too much disrespect for my liking.

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FISCHER613
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I think Sonnen gave 100% the first fight and and silva was around 70% due to the injury. Can Sonnen handle a 100% Silva or even a 90% Silva. Nope. Granted it is very rare for a fighter to fight 100% injury free so I am excited if both fighters are healthy and had good camps.

I have it as a 1st/2nd rd TKO. winner : Silva.

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DarkNinjaa
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Great news!! Yeeeeha!! Bring it on!


I like both fighters. Sonnen just rocks with all the shit talk and I loooove it, haha. But I'm seeing Silva winning this again.

Co-event: Belfort to win.

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FrozenNinja
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I'm just going to pick one. Sonnen in an upset. I'll do it. I'll be the only one to pick Sonnen. Somebody has to...lol.

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yoitspmart
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Sonnen is a huge fag and he tries to make the UFC like Wrestling with his annoying shit talking...... Silva will win

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Sentoguy
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Sonnen didn't look very impressive in his last win against Bisping. IMO if Bisping can give him problems, then a healthy Silva should win fairly easily. But, like the saying goes, styles make fights. Sonnen is the best wrestler in the division and wrestling is Silva's weakest skill set. If Silva tries to get cute and gives Chael the opportunity to grab a hold of him and wrestle him to the ground, then I think it could be another long night for Anderson. Sure, he might still win, but it could be a lot uglier than some might expect.

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zecarlo
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Sentoguy wrote:
Sonnen didn't look very impressive in his last win against Bisping. IMO if Bisping can give him problems, then a healthy Silva should win fairly easily. But, like the saying goes, styles make fights. Sonnen is the best wrestler in the division and wrestling is Silva's weakest skill set. If Silva tries to get cute and gives Chael the opportunity to grab a hold of him and wrestle him to the ground, then I think it could be another long night for Anderson. Sure, he might still win, but it could be a lot uglier than some might expect.


But on the ground is where Silva beat him last time. It's where he has lost to Maia, Filho, Horn, Griffin, Sobral..it's where most of his losses happen. Stann is a blue belt at best so he obviously couldn't take advantage of being on the ground with Sonnen.

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humble
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Silva to knock him the F out in round 1 or 2.

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rundymc
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zecarlo wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
Sonnen didn't look very impressive in his last win against Bisping. IMO if Bisping can give him problems, then a healthy Silva should win fairly easily. But, like the saying goes, styles make fights. Sonnen is the best wrestler in the division and wrestling is Silva's weakest skill set. If Silva tries to get cute and gives Chael the opportunity to grab a hold of him and wrestle him to the ground, then I think it could be another long night for Anderson. Sure, he might still win, but it could be a lot uglier than some might expect.


But on the ground is where Silva beat him last time. It's where he has lost to Maia, Filho, Horn, Griffin, Sobral..it's where most of his losses happen. Stann is a blue belt at best so he obviously couldn't take advantage of being on the ground with Sonnen.


The Sonnen of today tends to follow this general pattern:

-Take guy down.
-Get in guard.
-Dominate with GnP.
-Towards the end of the fight, leave yourself open.

He does this a lot, even dating back to the Forrest fight. He did it in the Marquardt fight, and of course, with Anderson.

I still think he can have success in the rematch with a healthy Silva. I think that style of his, moving forward with strikes while constantly looking for the takedown, is a bit of a foil for a guy like Anderson. You throw in a decent power double and some legit mat work, and you have a threat.

I don't, however, think he will win. 3rd RD TKO.

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Sentoguy
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zecarlo wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
Sonnen didn't look very impressive in his last win against Bisping. IMO if Bisping can give him problems, then a healthy Silva should win fairly easily. But, like the saying goes, styles make fights. Sonnen is the best wrestler in the division and wrestling is Silva's weakest skill set. If Silva tries to get cute and gives Chael the opportunity to grab a hold of him and wrestle him to the ground, then I think it could be another long night for Anderson. Sure, he might still win, but it could be a lot uglier than some might expect.


But on the ground is where Silva beat him last time. It's where he has lost to Maia, Filho, Horn, Griffin, Sobral..it's where most of his losses happen. Stann is a blue belt at best so he obviously couldn't take advantage of being on the ground with Sonnen.


Yes this is true. However that's better than anyone else has done with Anderson since his entrance into the UFC. Again, I'm not saying that I think that Sonnen is going to win this fight, all I'm saying is that stylistically he presents a problem for Silva and matches up with Silva the best out of anyone in the division.

On the feet nobody in that division is going to beat Anderson, nobody. And, since his fight with Travis Lutter he has really seemed to improve his takedown defense. Neither Thales Leites, nor Demian Maia (who may have both had a chance of submitting Anderson on the ground) could get the fight where they needed it to be due to a lack of takedown skills.

In fact, only Sonnen has been able to consistently and repeatedly take Silva down to where he is at least potentially beatable. That in itself says to me that he at least has a legitimate chance of grinding out a victory and ending Silva's unbeaten reign at MW.

But like I said, if his fight with Bisping is any indication of where he's currently at as a fighter (following his suspension), then I think Anderson should beat him again.

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zecarlo
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Sentoguy wrote:
zecarlo wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
Sonnen didn't look very impressive in his last win against Bisping. IMO if Bisping can give him problems, then a healthy Silva should win fairly easily. But, like the saying goes, styles make fights. Sonnen is the best wrestler in the division and wrestling is Silva's weakest skill set. If Silva tries to get cute and gives Chael the opportunity to grab a hold of him and wrestle him to the ground, then I think it could be another long night for Anderson. Sure, he might still win, but it could be a lot uglier than some might expect.


But on the ground is where Silva beat him last time. It's where he has lost to Maia, Filho, Horn, Griffin, Sobral..it's where most of his losses happen. Stann is a blue belt at best so he obviously couldn't take advantage of being on the ground with Sonnen.


Yes this is true. However that's better than anyone else has done with Anderson since his entrance into the UFC. Again, I'm not saying that I think that Sonnen is going to win this fight, all I'm saying is that stylistically he presents a problem for Silva and matches up with Silva the best out of anyone in the division.

On the feet nobody in that division is going to beat Anderson, nobody. And, since his fight with Travis Lutter he has really seemed to improve his takedown defense. Neither Thales Leites, nor Demian Maia (who may have both had a chance of submitting Anderson on the ground) could get the fight where they needed it to be due to a lack of takedown skills.

In fact, only Sonnen has been able to consistently and repeatedly take Silva down to where he is at least potentially beatable. That in itself says to me that he at least has a legitimate chance of grinding out a victory and ending Silva's unbeaten reign at MW.

But like I said, if his fight with Bisping is any indication of where he's currently at as a fighter (following his suspension), then I think Anderson should beat him again.

One thing to consider is that it will be in Brazil so there is a good chance of seeing quick standups.

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rundymc
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I think it depends on the ref. Mirgliotta was quite obviously influenced in the AJ vs Belfort fight, but I don't recall any other questionable decisions as far as refereeing bias goes. That same night Yamasaki DQ'ed a Brazilian fighter for hitting the back of the head of an American fighter.

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rundymc
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Sentoguy wrote:

But like I said, if his fight with Bisping is any indication of where he's currently at as a fighter (following his suspension), then I think Anderson should beat him again.


Good point, but I'm not so sure.

I have NEVER seen Chael so dried out as right after the Bisping weigh in, and after the fight. Now I'm not implying he was sick or anything, but it did looked like a bad cut. He was walking around at 217, and looked the largest I remember seeing in some of those press conferences.

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Fistiecuffs
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You never know, the man has been cutting weight for ever, your body can only take so much. If he can no longer make the cut comfortably and will look the same as in the fight against Bisping, Andy is going to steamroll him and that will be the end of that story, everyone will ignore his 270 punches and being the man to come closest to beating him in the UFC, after that he will be just the guy who talked shit and couldn't back it up. I can see where a lot of people are comeing with their Sonnen-hatred, as I could probably be on the same side were it not for that one night in Abu Dhabi after which I have pretty much always hoped for someone to knock Silva's clown ass the fuck out. I will be hoping for just that once again, hope we ain't going to see any stupid referee action or retarded judges as controversial shit like that would be the last thing that an epic clash like this would need... Fair battle with no excuses is probably what everybody wants to see, and I hope Chael makes it in and out of the octagon alive and not getting jumped by 50000 enthusiastic brazilians looking to avenge the beating he is going to put on Silva. I have Sonnen laying down yet another beating in the Spider, with the only changed will be constant booing throughout the fight and no miracle come-from-behind submission, as Chael will finish what he did and it will look nasty. Doesn't really matter if it takes one, two or five rounds, as long as it happens.

As for the co-mainevent, it shouldn't really happen. I know Wandy has been campaining for this fight for some time now and really wants to do it, but really, someone needs to tell him this is dangerous. He has been knocked out quite a few times now and its not smart to throw him out for the lions just to see him get KTFO'ed again. He ain't the man he used to be, and even if he were he probably would get his ass handed to him. He got knocked out in 44 seconds over ten years ago by Vitor, and after CC fight Wandy has just been losing left and right. In their last 9 fights, Wandy is 3-6 while Vitor is 7-2 and just fought for the title last year. Stylewise, its still as bad of a match-up for Wandy is it was in 98. Where their condition is now, I'm not going to be surprised if it won't even take 44 seconds until Wanderlei is going to suffer some serious braindamage. Only way I can sit through this is because I put a ton of money on line in favor of Vitor because I just don't see how this fight could play out the other way.

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ZEB
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I think Sonnen underestimated Bisping (and why not?). Having a tough fight with Bisping has made Sonnen prepare that much more for Silva.

I have no idea who will win, but I'd love to see Sonnen beat him up for 5 rounds and actually not get tapped out as he did last time. So, I'm for the underdog.

As for Silva he is no question a tremendous fighter. But with that said I'm not buying the injured rib excuse as the reason Sonnen beat him up for about 4 1/2 rounds. I think Sonnen took Silva out of his game with his aggressive ground and pound. The bad part for Sonnen is that Silva will be ready for it this time around. And if Silva has not had extensive preparation for GnP then he deserves to get beat up.

While Silva is obviously the favorite I think the fight could go either way it depends on whose night it is.

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Robert A
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ZEB wrote:
I think Sonnen underestimated Bisping (and why not?). Having a tough fight with Bisping has made Sonnen prepare that much more for Silva.

I have no idea who will win, but I'd love to see Sonnen beat him up for 5 rounds and actually not get tapped out as he did last time. So, I'm for the underdog.

As for Silva he is no question a tremendous fighter. But with that said I'm not buying the injured rib excuse as the reason Sonnen beat him up for about 4 1/2 rounds. I think Sonnen took Silva out of his game with his aggressive ground and pound. The bad part for Sonnen is that Silva will be ready for it this time around. And if Silva has not had extensive preparation for GnP then he deserves to get beat up.

While Silva is obviously the favorite I think the fight could go either way it depends on whose night it is.


ZEB,

Overall I agree save one point.

Where do you see Sonnon having "aggressive ground and pound". I know he landed a lot of shots, but for all of it he did not seem to do much damage. He never does. He has excellent top control. Maybe the best top control in the UFC, but he doesn't so much "ground and pound" as he racks up "advantage". He did do some cuffing of the ears and maybe a bit of gouging, but Silva's face leads me to think it wasn't much of a beating. Contrast that with guys who spent any amount of time under Hughes, Coleman, Ortiz, Hammel, Lesnar, Fedor, or even Fitch.

Sonnon reminds me of Matt Lindland, another excellent fighter who tended to wrestle his way to top control and then grind out a win with arm punches. Lindland is also a coach/training partner for Sonnon. I am not criticizing the tactic, since it is a valid path to a W. With the UFC scoring it sure as hell isn't "lay and pray" like it would have been in Pride. My criticism of Sonnon in the ring are that he repeatedly has lacked the discipline to take a win home in the end of a fight. He gets lazy and doesn't pay attention to submission defense and manages to hand other fighters dramatic wins as a result. Again, contrast that to Hughes, Fedor, Fitch, Hammel, or Ortiz (I am dropping Coleman for cause and Lesnar since his career was so short).

Oh, I will be rooting against Bisbing this fight. I don't care that he isn't fighting. I hope he gets a fucking hang nail. And I hope it hurts.

Regards,

Robert A

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WhiteFlash
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One-sided beating from Silva. Apparently people forget that Silva was toying with Sonnen their first fight until he slipped and got caught. The rest of the fight was Sonnen dry humping him til he got subbed. I'd bet the keys to my car this doesn't go past the second, and I'd honestly be surprised if it gets that far.

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ScreenWatcha
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Injury or not. He will be PED free. He didn't look that good vs bisping. If sonnon beats silva that speaks on behalf of bisping too.

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zecarlo
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Robert A wrote:
Sonnon reminds me of Matt Lindland, another excellent fighter who tended to wrestle his way to top control and then grind out a win with arm punches. Lindland is also a coach/training partner for Sonnon.


He also learned how to cheat from Lindland. They have both pulled the old tap and deny it trick.

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Robert A
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zecarlo wrote:
Robert A wrote:
Sonnon reminds me of Matt Lindland, another excellent fighter who tended to wrestle his way to top control and then grind out a win with arm punches. Lindland is also a coach/training partner for Sonnon.


He also learned how to cheat from Lindland. They have both pulled the old tap and deny it trick.


Shit, I forgot about Lindland tapping out twice vs. Bustemante.

Good save.

Regards,

Robert A

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ZEB
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Robert A wrote:
ZEB wrote:
I think Sonnen underestimated Bisping (and why not?). Having a tough fight with Bisping has made Sonnen prepare that much more for Silva.

I have no idea who will win, but I'd love to see Sonnen beat him up for 5 rounds and actually not get tapped out as he did last time. So, I'm for the underdog.

As for Silva he is no question a tremendous fighter. But with that said I'm not buying the injured rib excuse as the reason Sonnen beat him up for about 4 1/2 rounds. I think Sonnen took Silva out of his game with his aggressive ground and pound. The bad part for Sonnen is that Silva will be ready for it this time around. And if Silva has not had extensive preparation for GnP then he deserves to get beat up.

While Silva is obviously the favorite I think the fight could go either way it depends on whose night it is.


ZEB,

Overall I agree save one point.

Where do you see Sonnon having "aggressive ground and pound". I know he landed a lot of shots, but for all of it he did not seem to do much damage. He never does. He has excellent top control. Maybe the best top control in the UFC, but he doesn't so much "ground and pound" as he racks up "advantage". He did do some cuffing of the ears and maybe a bit of gouging, but Silva's face leads me to think it wasn't much of a beating. Contrast that with guys who spent any amount of time under Hughes, Coleman, Ortiz, Hammel, Lesnar, Fedor, or even Fitch.


I agree he didn't do much obvious damage to Silva's face. But if you look at the fight again you will see him doing some nasty ear shots with both hands. I'm sure Silva had a hard time hearing the dinner bell over the ensuing two weeks. And he does land a lot of pesky shots which don't do much damage but certainly score with the judges. I don't know the punch count off hand but it seemed like he hit Silva hundreds of times from the top position and damage or not that is what wins rounds. No one can deny that Sonnen won every round of that fight...then lost in the 5th.

Sonnon reminds me of Matt Lindland, another excellent fighter who tended to wrestle his way to top control and then grind out a win with arm punches. Lindland is also a coach/training partner for Sonnon. I am not criticizing the tactic, since it is a valid path to a W.


Yeah, I can see the similarities.


With the UFC scoring it sure as hell isn't "lay and pray" like it would have been in Pride. My criticism of Sonnon in the ring are that he repeatedly has lacked the discipline to take a win home in the end of a fight. He gets lazy and doesn't pay attention to submission defense and manages to hand other fighters dramatic wins as a result. Again, contrast that to Hughes, Fedor, Fitch, Hammel, or Ortiz (I am dropping Coleman for cause and Lesnar since his career was so short).


No question he lacked the discipline to stay focused near the end. That is one of the things that he's been working on no doubt. Just as the alleged greatest martial artist on the planet (nope) has been working on take down defense and bottom escapes.


Oh, I will be rooting against Bisbing this fight. I don't care that he isn't fighting. I hope he gets a fucking hang nail. And I hope it hurts.

Regards,

Robert A



Whahaha...I'm with ya brother!

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ZEB
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WhiteFlash wrote:
One-sided beating from Silva. Apparently people forget that Silva was toying with Sonnen their first fight until he slipped and got caught. The rest of the fight was Sonnen dry humping him til he got subbed. I'd bet the keys to my car this doesn't go past the second, and I'd honestly be surprised if it gets that far.


Yeah but how much are your keys worth?

Seriously, you are off base with your prediction. Doesn't go past the second? Regardless of who wins it's going past the second.

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ZEB
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zecarlo wrote:
Robert A wrote:
Sonnon reminds me of Matt Lindland, another excellent fighter who tended to wrestle his way to top control and then grind out a win with arm punches. Lindland is also a coach/training partner for Sonnon.


He also learned how to cheat from Lindland. They have both pulled the old tap and deny it trick.



And they both learned that from Ken Shamrock in his first fight with Royce Gracie.

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