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Kung Fu Master Baiting
 

Whelanj
Level 1

Join date: Aug 2010
Posts: 44

humble wrote:
hmmm, the gap is closing. I see what you're saying but the problem is that it is way too common an association with most of these arts these days and prior days.

I have so many asian friends who have used the mystique and aura around those arts to get themselves out of situations when in actual fact they wouldn't know the first thing about making a fist.

They admit, there's too much bullshit around it all. From what I can see and observe in those vids, beardo and pudgy have generated this awe about them, learned how to talk over people and smother them with supposed training ideas and the 'student' sits there and out of respect, naivety or just plain stupidity they sit there, don't think about what is being said to them, accept it at face value and hold these guys in grand esteem.

Sorry, Wheelan, the last video you posted reinforced my earlier beliefs. Look at the way the 'student' just panders there and absorbs it all. Reminds me of the pseudo systema guys too.

Point is, the true masters of these TMA's aren't making home videos and selling dvd's in parks.



What about these guys?

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humble
Level 2

Join date: Nov 2005
Posts: 827

now you're just teasing lmao

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Sentoguy
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6137

The guy in red definitely had the best form and I saw the least technical breakdown in him, but in general they all looked like sloppy boxers/kickboxers. Hands dropped once they started throwing punches, chins came up, and they leaned back. Also, no use of angles whatsoever, and they were all exclusively headhunters (perhaps this is the rules idk).

But all in all I've got to give them credit for at least putting on the gloves and sparring what seemed like at least semi if not full contact. Probably one of the reasons why San Shou is a respected form of Kung Fu.

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TigerTime
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Join date: May 2011
Posts: 1369

San Shou has some nice take-down work to it. I'd like to learn it.



Lol @ 2:42

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Whelanj
Level 1

Join date: Aug 2010
Posts: 44

humble wrote:
now you're just teasing lmao

you got me. Not that I don't think the world of mr. Redshirt, but I hardly expected that you would. I wonder if you've seen these Sanshou vs Muay Thai tournaments that have been going on in recent years? In all seriousness I'd like your opinion on them if you have one.

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humble
Level 2

Join date: Nov 2005
Posts: 827

Hard to answer Whelan. Get a top notch Muay Thai stylist vs a Top notch San Shou stylist and put them under what rules to compare them?
Not fair to compare an aggressive fighter vs a shit muay thai fighter and claim that as sanshou superiority over Muay Thai.
Apples and Apples

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heavythrower
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2002
Posts: 5423

[quote]Whelanj wrote:
[quote]humble wrote:
now you're just teasing lmao[/quote]
you got me. Not that I don't think the world of mr. Redshirt, but I hardly expected that you would. I wonder if you've seen these Sanshou vs Muay Thai tournaments that have been going on in recent years? In all seriousness I'd like your opinion on them if you have one.



ugh, ugly ko. i never like it when the guy is laid out and knocked stiff and twitching.

which was what in that vid? who was kung fu and who was muay thai?

i dont understand why the ref was separating them so much either.

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Sentoguy
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6137

humble wrote:
Hard to answer Whelan. Get a top notch Muay Thai stylist vs a Top notch San Shou stylist and put them under what rules to compare them?
Not fair to compare an aggressive fighter vs a shit muay thai fighter and claim that as sanshou superiority over Muay Thai.
Apples and Apples


Like you said, the rules and context are going to influence who is most likely to come out on top, and even then it would come down to who the two fighters were and how they matched up stylistically.

Under San Shou rules, I'd probably take a prime Cung Le over pretty much any Middleweight (185 lb) Muay Thai champion in modern history. Le's wrestling and takedown skills combined with solid striking made him pretty much unbeatable under San Shou rules. But under Muay Thai rules (which somewhat vary depending on the organization) where takedowns are not permitted or scored, I think someone like Ramon Dekkers would probably beat him.

That would be like asking who would win in a grappling competition, Cael Sanderson or Masahiko Kimura? Obviously it would depend on the rules or the competition and the context. Put them in gi's and have them compete Judo rules, my money would be on Kimura. Put them in singlets and have them compete folkstyle wrestling rules, my money would be on Sanderson.

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Verduner
Level

Join date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1

Hey guys,

3 quick random points I'd like to make:

1) 'Street fights' can easily be diffused or avoided if you aren't a hothead. They are usually ego driven to see which peacock has the biggest and brightest tail. 'Criminal Assaults' (like armed theft or rape) are more difficult to avoid once you've been 'selected'. If you have been selected it means the attacker/s have probably determined that you will be a pushover (either because they outnumber you or have weapons). If that's the case, I don't think it makes a difference if you know MMA or TMA (assuming strength and fitness are equal). Neither sufficiently prepare you for armed or gang scenarios (which IMHO are the only type of scenario people should worry about, because 'street fights' are too easily avoidable). Blast 1 or 2 shots for the pocket and run!!!

2) I will say this about some old TMA masters. Many of them seem to age incredibly well. They appear to have fantastic joint fluidity for their age. The same can't be said of many who have practiced very hard styles for many years. There comes a point in life (I'm almost 40) when you realize the likelihood of being attacked 1 vs 1 by some unarmed goon is very slim compared to dealing with a declining 'quality of life' from sparring too hard.

3) Anyone ever watch those Master Wong videos? LOL I very much enjoy them!

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Aussie Davo
Level

Join date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1095

[quote]Whelanj wrote:
[quote]humble wrote:
now you're just teasing lmao[/quote]
you got me. Not that I don't think the world of mr. Redshirt, but I hardly expected that you would. I wonder if you've seen these Sanshou vs Muay Thai tournaments that have been going on in recent years? In all seriousness I'd like your opinion on them if you have one.



I would like to point out that Sanshou have not been dominating these tournaments in recent years. Initially they dominated because sanshou rules favor, well, sanshou fighters, and because takedowns and defense against takedowns isn't a primary concern when you're a MT fighter training for MT rules.

However if you watched the later years of competition, the Thais made a big comeback and started dominating the tourneys, and surprisingly, they did it by beating them at takedowns.

I like sanshou, but people make a big song and dance about it "it's like kickboxing but with takedowns bro!!!" forgetting that Muay Thai is full of takedowns, sweeps and throws, it's just that they aren't practiced or utilized as frequently because they aren't scored in competition. The same could be said about boxing technique in MT I suppose.

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FightinIrish26
Level

Join date: Feb 2005
Posts: 17140

By the way, did anyone realize that when this conversation got to being constructive again as soon as Zeb left - which he did after he realized that people weren't responding in anger to his trolling?

Thank god this forum is actually filled with adults.

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humble
Level 2

Join date: Nov 2005
Posts: 827

Aussie Davo wrote:

I would like to point out that Sanshou have not been dominating these tournaments in recent years. Initially they dominated because sanshou rules favor, well, sanshou fighters, and because takedowns and defense against takedowns isn't a primary concern when you're a MT fighter training for MT rules.

However if you watched the later years of competition, the Thais made a big comeback and started dominating the tourneys, and surprisingly, they did it by beating them at takedowns.

I like sanshou, but people make a big song and dance about it "it's like kickboxing but with takedowns bro!!!" forgetting that Muay Thai is full of takedowns, sweeps and throws, it's just that they aren't practiced or utilized as frequently because they aren't scored in competition. The same could be said about boxing technique in MT I suppose.


I was going to mention this as well but thought people may think I'm just getting defensive over Muay Thai.

Seriously, take a look at some purists in Muay Thai, not the bullshit jazzed up American versions, but serious Thai takedowns and see how ragdolled opponents get. A prime Muay Thai guy against a prime san shou guy even in san shou rules and I'd still favor the Muay Thai stylist.

I've sparred with MMA guys who were at my equivalent level in MMA and it's a long night for them trying to take us down and for some reason, despite all their clinch work and take down work, they still suck at defending their heads in neck grapple. Everytime I think of this subject Franklin vs Silva 1 and 2 comes to mind and how he was owned by Silva who isn't that great a thai stylist either.

As for that Mr Wong Video..... fucken hell. He is fucken ace, lmao. Fucken had me pissing myself laughing at 530 am. Subscribed lol! "He not a fuckin' dummy you know' 'He gonna knock your fucken head off' hahahahaha
I love his half English half Asian accent lol
I'd go to England just to shake the cunts hand lol

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humble
Level 2

Join date: Nov 2005
Posts: 827

Oh fuck, I'm hooked on that Wong dude. He's even funnier in other videos. Classic

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punchedbear
Level

Join date: Jul 2009
Posts: 294

humble wrote:
Oh fuck, I'm hooked on that Wong dude. He's even funnier in other videos. Classic


me to. I had seen some of them before but they are hilarious.

I would love to work with him just for the laughs alone. I am sure he can teach some effective stuff but what a cool guy to work with. I love guys like that. Look you didnt tie up this arm now I knock your fucking head off. perfect shit there.

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Cephalic_Carnage
Level 5

Join date: Jul 2008
Posts: 8850

Ha, have to watch a few more of those if I can find the time...

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