The Intelligent & Relentless Pursuit of Muscle™
Combat
 
Is Overeem Doing Steroids?
 

chillain
Level 4

Join date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3705

Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Oh man, sometimes I wish we'd had a sticky for this kind of shit. Every few weeks it's the same...

Did X juice?
Can you get that big without steroids?
Why did X juice, I think it's unnecessary and bad!
...

It all comes down to these arguments:

1. Moral argument, Malum in se.
Juicing is wrong, period. Because X said so.

If your god or your readyness to uphold the law is so strong, arguing here is futile.
In a sense, you could say this is the best argument, really, but on the other hand I expect the one to deliver it to be a drugfree, noncheating, model citizen.
Since I never met someone admirable in my life who has never consumed any drugs at all and also never cheated in his life with regard to anything (games, girlfriends, promises) ... I

won't hold my breath.
Also, some countries have no laws against steroids. So, why should an athlete like Overeem, who competes in Japan and has never failed a test (which only concludes if you used in a

certain timespan) not use AAS when he is allowed to? No sport forbids you to ever use drugs.
Since the pro world is in certain sports internally very open about it, why shouldn't an athlete juice then?
If he wants to put on size, it may be a VERY good option to consider, an investment with which he can save lots of time and jointpain.
Overeem would have been an idiot NOT to juice.
Sidenote: If I had to bet money I'd bet a lot of it without blinking that Fedor used AAS like many, many other known heavyweights.

2. You shouldn't juice, because it's unnatural and ..
2.1 ... unhealthy!
Could be true. But a lot of other things are easily more harmful. Should all athletes be not allowed to smoke, for instance?
How about making weight, a sure way to increase a fighter's injury potential?
If someone is truly concerned with safety & health, he should strive to ban the whole process of making weight, or better, push for weigh-ins just before a fight.
The whole argument gets completely crazy since the whole lifestyle of a pro athlete is FAR, FAR more harmful then, for example modest AAS usage and since some stacks are geared

very effectively towards better regeneration and rehab, this alone could mean a case for juicing, if it's all about health.

2.2 ... you never know how your body reacts, it may damage you permanently!
A typical argument that often invokes the grotesque images of olympic monstrosities (think of female chinese or ex-soviet athletes).
Since no one died from a steroid overdose while our western societies drown in alcohol and hands out prozac & aspirin like candy, it's hard to see a point, especially since dosages for

an amateur or a smart pro who chooses to use under his own free will is a whole different ballgame.
To be clear: PEDs, especially diuretics can be merciless on your body. You can die when fooling around with this stuff!
Forcing others -especially young athletes who look up to their coach for advice- to ingest very potent drugs is a criminal and disgraceful behaviour!
Bottom line: like many things, Steroids and other PEDs can be potentially bad for you, so this argument is not enough to warrant a PED inquisition.

2.3 ... abs aren't everything. (with regard to the sport of MMA: Look at Fedor, look at Big Country, look at...)
It's not about looks. Most athletes don't care about looking lean and fit as long as they can traing longer, harder or overcome injuires, anxiety, too much water weight or fatigue. Some

use PEDs only in order to get some quality sleep.
However, some sportsmen depend on good looks.
GSP, the MMA-Star, has among the best sponsor deals partly because of his athletic body.
Under Armour^tm couldn't care less if he's on a four or eight fight winning streak, in contrast to the degree of compartmentalization of his abdominal muscles-
No eight pack hardbody, no contract.
So even mere looks could be important and, for example, decide wether an athlete's child could go to an average or expensive college.
This is not as rare as some might think.
Huge muscles alone can help to get media attention.
Bob Sapp, Mariusz Pudzanowski got rich BECAUSE of Vitamin S and would probably have never got a lucrative shot in MMA without usage.

2.4 ... did I mention it's unnatural? Sports are a means to educate what you can and can not do with your body.
The naturalistic argument is, similar to argument #1, appropriate for a full-fledged mormon.
Since we use airplanes, get vaccinated and use condoms, it's pretty clear what most societies think in essence of this idea.
As an extension, it's instructive to look at what crazy stuff people came up with in sports.
Sharkskin suits, oxygen tents, spiked cyberboots, the list goes on and on even without PEDs.
Hmm. Maybe we have to look a few dozen centuries back to see honest athletes?
Ironically, banned PEDs are as old as the olympic games.
Same thing with crazy devices: Did you know ancient longjumpers used so called "halteres" for a few extra inches?
According to legend, even the nakedness of ancient, greek athletes became customary only after a surprising nude victory, when a competitor lost his loincloth during a run.
Apparently bc-athletes didn't care much for "god given" limitations either.

3 - you gain an unfair advantage...
3.1 ...against a non user.
If someone is willing or able to invest more in the persuit of athletic goals, he might have an advantage which can be more significant then mere talent.
The first time I realized this was as a child, when my brother lost to younger boy in swimming. I couldn't believe this at first, but my brother shrugged and said:
"His dad is coaching him like crazy, he makes sure he never misses training and even buys him special sport-food (protein shakes, dextrose- my mouth stood wide open)."
All of this can be seen as unfair, just like the ever-omnious "talent".
Today, invested money can allow one athlete to be better equipped, order fancy supplements, have access to an oxygen deprived training facility or dorm, top notch international

coaches, an nutritionist who conveniently provides meals through a catering service right to your doorstep, specialized medical personal...
PEDs are no magic pills here.
What would you rather prefer as a martial artist? A stack of growth hormone+testosterone for six weeks OR a six week training course with red devil team (Fedor as coach and a

translator included) ?
For many trainees, PEDs wouldn't be near the top of a rather comprehensive list.
Especially in the information age, it's more a dilemma for a pro.

3.2 ...against a fellow amateur in competition.
The best, perhaps even the only real argument.
Some PEDs can give an amateur a clear, decisive boost within a certain timeframe.
EPO-like substances , for instance, have a big, measureable impact on endurance. Just like that.
An overtrained fighter will be more aggressive and determined the next day with a Testosteronepatch on his scrotum over night. Pure hormonal magic.
These can be pretty foolproof both in terms of health and legal risks, if done correctly.
The idea of "cheating" will come up here pretty stubbornly, for two reasons:
It seems like, in contrast to other "unfair" advantages like better trainers, there was practically no invested work here (curiously, the health risk seem a non issue).
Which our puritanical societies frown so sternly upon. No sweat = devil's tricks.
On the other hand, monetary advantages are super ok. That's also a cultural thing.
Instead of demanding a seperate juicer's class in competition, one could as well lament the fact that poor schmoh's do not fight seperately from the rich guys.
Competition is seldom very fair and played on the exact same level.
There is a lot apart from training that the aspiring athlete can do today besides sweating in the dojo.
I believe Amateurs should have a trustworthy coach that provides the right opponents for his pupil.
And help him get his priorities straight.

3.3 ...which leads to a vicous spiral - everybody must use PEDs
Honestly, pro sport is so full of all kinds of drugs, a grown man shouldn't believe politicians can legislate our way into greener, drug-freer pastures.
A pro has to know if he's got to juice. If you're a sprinter, chances are you have to juice if you want an olympic medal:
There are so many winners cought syringe-handed- Greene , Gatlin, Montgomery... Crazyness.
And even Bolt with his bizarre genetic makup smells mighty suspicous if you look at his teammates.
It gets laughable when so many pros claim to have asthma or UFC's Dana White treats Roy Nelson with contempt because he has no abs! Shame on him! The pig!
Our society may bark legally at PEDs like a good, upright german shephard, but purrs dreamily when superaryan athlets like Todd Duffee smile their HGH-enhanced smile. (I think as a

small boy I had less gaps with half my milk teeth gone)
As a pro , you might have to consider a lot of things.
Steroids may be one of these options and if that's that case, know that at least drug free Schwarzfahrer won't cast the first stone.


nicely done, good post

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Xen Nova
Level 1

Join date: May 2004
Posts: 5847

kmcnyc-

I think we need more gossip posts like this.
Maybe next we can talk about things like Kazushi Sakuraba's Ear
or that Rulon Gardner is on the biggest looser and weighed 475 lbs




Hah, exactly. It's all just gossip.
Who gives a shit. It's sport.

EVERYONE does SOMETHING to gain an advantage over your opponent.
The "even playing field" thing is just smoke and mirrors...

easy example:
-----------------
Shane Carwin kept his day job an an engineer
Brock Lesnar doesn't do anything but train

ooooh unfair, brock should have picked up a day job to make it even!!
------------------

If I use Surge Workout Fuel and you're stuck with the o.g. weider formula that's unfair as fuck! I understand it's "breaking the rules" but you also drive over the speed limit, cheat on reps, chicks wear makeup, you overclock your processor, blah blah etc etc... Our society is based on cutting corners and unfair advantages. I dislike it. It's blatant rule breaking. But it takes a special kind of asshole to persecute someone for defending their livelihood by any means necessary. It's not like taking AAS is the easy way out, usually means the person is training HARDER.

The AWESOME thing about fighting is that it doesn't fucking matter. You can be roided to muscle beach hell and get your orbital socket broken (crocop v sapp). All it takes is the right combination of excellence and anger to end your night in a SPECTACULAR fashion.


btw,

OMG Rulon's gained so much weight, he should do the apple cider diet, I should check his twitter, LOLOMFGMYBFFJILL

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Xen Nova
Level 1

Join date: May 2004
Posts: 5847

and great post Schwarzfahrer, really should be a sticky

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

kmcnyc
Level

Join date: Nov 2006
Posts: 6618

Swartz I somehow missed your post altogether nice work.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Xen Nova
Level 1

Join date: May 2004
Posts: 5847

ditto, i didn't read it till it was quoted, and wasted my time writing shit he already said *sigh*

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

humble
Level 2

Join date: Nov 2005
Posts: 828

fuck me there are some haters. Big shit if he's on the gear. The whole NFL is, the whole NBA is, the whole baseball league is but if it's a guy from outside, let's trash him.
He's probably on a special concoction of fairy bread and gatorade. Shit works you know! lmao Who gives a rats.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

nyjets7787
Level

Join date: Feb 2009
Posts: 14

This forum hasn't been used but I absolutely think he has done something that's why these fighters to long lay offs as well to clear their kidneys...but I know Masteron and Clen are popular for the weight cut and stamina...josh Barnett and Victor Bel fort have been known to do shit as well ...those back in the day fighters did it alot more I'm sure... but with so many weight classes now I don't think it can be beneficial for a 170 pounder to take something and go 205 and fight someone naturally bigger then them...to answer you question yes have fighters done it but I don't thinks its as popular as it once was

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

kmcnyc
Level

Join date: Nov 2006
Posts: 6618

nyjets7787 wrote:
This forum hasn't been used but I absolutely think he has done something that's why these fighters to long lay offs as well to clear their kidneys...but I know Masteron and Clen are popular for the weight cut and stamina...josh Barnett and Victor Bel fort have been known to do shit as well ...those back in the day fighters did it alot more I'm sure... but with so many weight classes now I don't think it can be beneficial for a 170 pounder to take something and go 205 and fight someone naturally bigger then them...to answer you question yes have fighters done it but I don't thinks its as popular as it once was




You are the Rudy of this thread
its a year old

thanks for digging it up I guess.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Grimlorn
Level

Join date: Jul 2011
Posts: 473

I think they give the horses a bunch of steroids before they kill them. Then they give the horse meat to Overeem and he gets huge.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Aussie Davo
Level

Join date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1095

"Our society may bark legally at PEDs like a good, upright german shephard, but purrs dreamily when superaryan athlets like Todd Duffee smile their HGH-enhanced smile."

Easily one of the best sentences ever written in this forum.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Kardash
Level

Join date: Sep 2011
Posts: 157

sardines12 wrote:
it's obvious you're a big fan, but hw's are less skilled period. denial of that is silly


This has to be the most silliest post I'ever seen on a combat forum.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

SKELAC
Level

Join date: Nov 2011
Posts: 790

Spartiates wrote:
What do you guys think?

He's deff. grown. He look amazing.

He attributes it to eating a lot and adding horse meat to his diet...




He's past some drug tests, but doesn't tend to fight in the US where we have stricter/regular testing...

What say you guys?



Your question is incredibly naive.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Big_Boss
Level

Join date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5765

Kardash wrote:
sardines12 wrote:
it's obvious you're a big fan, but hw's are less skilled period. denial of that is silly


This has to be the most silliest post I've ever seen on a combat forum.



And that post doesn't even crack his Top 10..

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Mike T.
Level 1

Join date: Jan 2005
Posts: 705

5 years of serious training according to the timeline.
What do you expect?

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

LoneWolf90
Level

Join date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1

Spartiates wrote:
What do you guys think?

He's deff. grown. He look amazing.

He attributes it to eating a lot and adding horse meat to his diet...




He's past some drug tests, but doesn't tend to fight in the US where we have stricter/regular testing...

What say you guys?




Well considering he's fighting in the UFC now and passing their drug tests I'd say no. In the past possibly, but he didn't make that big of a gain in a short amount of time. I believe the span is 6 years in which he gained all that weight. I myself was a skinny kid up until September to December 2011 in which i gained 50lbs of muscle. Stranger things have happened.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

rundymc
Level

Join date: May 2009
Posts: 1323

You forget two things:

-He was his biggest, at least officially, in his last fight.
-He postponed a pre-fight test by two weeks, blaming it on his mother's cancer treatment. Cause for raised eyebrows perhaps?

And of course, the fact that he isn't undergoing testing in between fights... like every other MMA athlete.

To me, it's a question of, why wouldn't he be using?

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Dutch Iron
Level

Join date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5

He's obviously on gear but who cares? i mean aint they all...

Fun fact : He trashed 5 bouncers in a club out here in Holland because they hit his lil bro.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

Aussie Davo
Level

Join date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1095

LoneWolf90 wrote:
Spartiates wrote:
What do you guys think?

He's deff. grown. He look amazing.

He attributes it to eating a lot and adding horse meat to his diet...




He's past some drug tests, but doesn't tend to fight in the US where we have stricter/regular testing...

What say you guys?




Well considering he's fighting in the UFC now and passing their drug tests I'd say no. In the past possibly, but he didn't make that big of a gain in a short amount of time. I believe the span is 6 years in which he gained all that weight. I myself was a skinny kid up until September to December 2011 in which i gained 50lbs of muscle. Stranger things have happened.



I know we're on T-Nation where it seems to be the norm to believe in magic, but come on.

Either you are A) embellishing greatly B) severely misjudging how much weight you gained was actually muscle or C) you were using AAS. There's simply no way you gained 50lbs of lean tissue in 4 months, Sorry.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report
 

rundymc
Level

Join date: May 2009
Posts: 1323

Point.

Also, Reem wasn't that skinny.

  Post New Thread | Reply | Quote | Report