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GSP vs Diaz
 

Ranzo
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Join date: May 2011
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Man I love MMA but I sometimes think these fights are "rigged" or preplanned in some way. Either that or guys are doing just enough damage to keep it going for a decision. Especially GSP. I wanted him to win against Diaz because I think really I could beat Diaz on my good day... I dunno. I also don't know who started the thing about his boxing being the best in MMA.....WTF looks like shit.

The facebook fights and almost the whole undercard really sucked. Guys were not trying to fight, had their hands down, using stupid little kicks. GSP Diaz I still cant figure out whay Diaz was crawling away and why GSP decided to just hold him and follow? Also can't figure out the whole clinch/dirty boxing thing that took place in the middle of the ring. Just seemed stupid and honestly the first round Diaz did not even fight.

I totally like Bellator more than the UFC and it comes on every week for free. I watched some awesome Muay Thai on Friday night on AXS tv. You could hear the knees landing and the guys grunting when it landed. Im getting burnt on the UFC.

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Sentoguy
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Join date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6130

Ranzo wrote:
Man I love MMA but I sometimes think these fights are "rigged" or preplanned in some way. Either that or guys are doing just enough damage to keep it going for a decision. Especially GSP. I wanted him to win against Diaz because I think really I could beat Diaz on my good day... I dunno. I also don't know who started the thing about his boxing being the best in MMA.....WTF looks like shit.


Yeah, I never really bought into the Diaz brothers' boxing being anything special. They just aren't afraid to stand in the pocket due to having great chins and throw tons of punches/overwhelm their opponents with the volume of punches they throw. Someone like GSP who actually understands how to effectively control range and close and clear distance is going to expose them (as he did).

I don't know though, I mean, Nick has beat some of the best fighters in the world and has only ever been finished twice in his professional career. The guy is definitely not a chump. GSP just makes most other fighters look like amateurs because he is such a superior athlete, has fantastic timing, and is constantly striving to perfect all aspects of his MMA game.


The facebook fights and almost the whole undercard really sucked. Guys were not trying to fight, had their hands down, using stupid little kicks. GSP Diaz I still cant figure out whay Diaz was crawling away and why GSP decided to just hold him and follow? Also can't figure out the whole clinch/dirty boxing thing that took place in the middle of the ring. Just seemed stupid and honestly the first round Diaz did not even fight.


Really? You thought the Cote fight sucked? I thought that one was pretty exciting at least.

Diaz was crawling away because GSP had pretty much nullified all of the little tricks and reversals that Nick was attempting and getting to the wall to get back to his feet was pretty much the only way he wasn't going to get continually pounded on for 5 straight rounds.

I'm with you on the clinch stuff; couldn't really figure out why GSP chose to do that. Maybe he was tired and wanted to rest, maybe he just wanted to prove to Nick that he could beat him wherever the fight went, maybe he felt like he could hurt Nick with knees to the body and possible TKO him. Only GSP and his camp know for sure.


I totally like Bellator more than the UFC and it comes on every week for free. I watched some awesome Muay Thai on Friday night on AXS tv. You could hear the knees landing and the guys grunting when it landed. Im getting burnt on the UFC.


Bellator has some great fighters and exciting fights no doubt.

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Aragorn
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completely agree with you sento. On a marginally related note, Bellator is kicking ass. My former client and friend (and all around class clown) David Rickels is in the finals and i think our place may have at least one more offering for Bellator next season...don't want to say anything because it's not 100%...yet. :))

I absolutely love the fight cards theyve had too, good finishes, good brawls, good all around. The ed west KO was easily one of my favorites in recent months....sooo quick, and interesting hi/lo combo choices.

And on another note--if i remember correctly...diaz 23-3 small time, 7-6 on the big stage. He might not be a chump, but he's a helluva lot less than champion caliber. Definitely not enougj to justify a mouth that big.

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Sentoguy
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Cool that you know Rickels and that another fighter you know might be in Bellator in the near future.

Yeah, totally agree with you about Diaz's mouth vs his actual talent/effectiveness. I'm by no means saying that his pompous attitude or trash talking are justified. Just that totally discounting Diaz's fighting skills because he got beat decisively by GSP isn't really a fair shake IMO.

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HERQ
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The Gracie's have an observation on GSP

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Aragorn
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Join date: Feb 2003
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Link doesnt work for me...anybody have a quick point summary of what the gracies said?

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Ranzo
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Join date: May 2011
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Aragorn wrote:
completely agree with you sento. On a marginally related note, Bellator is kicking ass. My former client and friend (and all around class clown) David Rickels is in the finals and i think our place may have at least one more offering for Bellator next season...don't want to say anything because it's not 100%...yet. :))

I absolutely love the fight cards theyve had too, good finishes, good brawls, good all around. The ed west KO was easily one of my favorites in recent months....sooo quick, and interesting hi/lo combo choices.

And on another note--if i remember correctly...diaz 23-3 small time, 7-6 on the big stage. He might not be a chump, but he's a helluva lot less than champion caliber. Definitely not enougj to justify a mouth that big.



cool that you know Rickels, he is a great fighter. I now a guy in Bellator as well he is from Memphis but is not in the tournament at the moment due to his loss last fight.

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Pigeonkak
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Ranzo wrote:
I also don't know who started the thing about his boxing being the best in MMA.....WTF looks like shit.



I have to agree with you. When I watch Diaz box I can't help but think that his strikes are slow and his defence is shit. And his skill level seems directly related to his degree of fatigue. By the four round, GSP was hitting him at will. Diaz was getting hit and stumbling, his own strikes where getting shut down, his footwork was shitty. He was as tired as GSP, but GSP wasn't losing form. Instead GSP was adapting his style to compensate for his lost energy. (that may explain the punch trading towards the end). Diaz was not adapting anything. He stuck to his "superior boxing" and flopped.

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humble
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Join date: Nov 2005
Posts: 827

Aragorn wrote:
Link doesnt work for me...anybody have a quick point summary of what the gracies said?


Man, I am really beginning to enjoy these brothers. Their analytics are spot on. They show a great intelligence and respect for the game.

Basically the gist of what they got to is GSP has neither submitted or been submitted in a very long time and that this is related to his emotionless state when fighting and his ultimate respect for the game and fight conditions. He fights in two distances, either all the way in or all the way out, never in a medium position. He never allows Nick or any fighter to put him in a position where he is transitioning from being all the way in some ones guard to pulling out. His escape if they try to put him in that position is so quick and explosive no one can get him in the middle position to put a choke, a leg in or apply any technique. He doesn't commit to taking the back or going for a submission because he realises his rounds are never lost to any fighter because he always has dominant position and by going for a submission he might expose himself to losing his dominant position.
He is always either all the way in or all the way both on the ground and on the floor. Even in stand up, he doesn't go for the kill because it can expose him to being killed.

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treco
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Well hopefully someone will rise up and beat his ass because they they are more motivated to win than GSP is in 'not losing'

I say this as someone who has always thought highly of him for his gentlemanly demeanor and obvious great skills and work ethic.

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humble
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Doubt it. Hendricks is going to get schooled, mauled and sent back to strikeforce. lol

Ellenberger might be an interesting fight.

I even think he will beat Silva now.

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Pigeonkak
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humble wrote:
Doubt it. Hendricks is going to get schooled, mauled and sent back to strikeforce. lol

Ellenberger might be an interesting fight.

I even think he will beat Silva now.


I agree. Don Henderson was right to say that Silva is manipulating the competition to get fights he can win. He's a genius sure, but he was shown up by the physicality Chael Sonnen brought and GSP will only bring a more intelligent physicality. Honestly, I like GSP's attitude: "Jake Shields is the most exciting challenger? okay... STUFF! Nick calls me out? Okay... STUFF! Hendricks is 2 time NCAA and All American?... STUFF!" That's my projection at least. It's his brain. He's the Sun Tzu of MMA right now.

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sharkOnesie
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I don't get how people can say GSP is boring. He is amazing to watch and so dominant. His performance against Hardy and Diaz are two of my favorite fights ever.

Saying GSP is boring, to me at least, seems like when casual fans of football used to call AC milan boring for dominating teams and winning 1-0.

Perfection should not have wild trades and scrambles. People IMO should look at his opponents and realise they have hardly ever been stopped. It is not like GSP can't or does not want to finish.

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Sentoguy
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Pigeonkak wrote:
humble wrote:
Doubt it. Hendricks is going to get schooled, mauled and sent back to strikeforce. lol

Ellenberger might be an interesting fight.

I even think he will beat Silva now.


I agree. Don Henderson was right to say that Silva is manipulating the competition to get fights he can win. He's a genius sure, but he was shown up by the physicality Chael Sonnen brought and GSP will only bring a more intelligent physicality. Honestly, I like GSP's attitude: "Jake Shields is the most exciting challenger? okay... STUFF! Nick calls me out? Okay... STUFF! Hendricks is 2 time NCAA and All American?... STUFF!" That's my projection at least. It's his brain. He's the Sun Tzu of MMA right now.


I tend to agree with you in regards to what the outcome will be against Hendricks. Sure, Hendricks is a very good wrestler. Sure, if he connects flush with his straight left he can put people to sleep. But GSP is such a well rounded fighter, so athletic, has such phenomenal timing, and above all is a highly intelligent fighter that I don't see Hendricks winning unless he lands a lucky punch.

That said, of all the contenders at WW, I'd say Hendricks has one of the best shots of upsetting GSP, simply due to the stylistic match-up. Would enjoy seeing Ellenberger or Lawler too (both are dynamic athletes who have fast, heavy hands and good wrestling).

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humble
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Whooaa now Lawler vs GSP would be intense!!!

Pigeon, Nick lost even more respect with those comments... seriously fried brain

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DN90
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Yeah, I don't really find GSP's fights to be boring. The one against Shields was, but otherwise, his wins over BJ, Alves, Kos, Diaz, and especially the fights with Fitch and Condit were amazing, decision or not.

And as far as Shields goes, he couldn't see out of one eye, and Jake Shields always has boring fights. So whose fault is that?

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zecarlo
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Pigeonkak wrote:
humble wrote:
Doubt it. Hendricks is going to get schooled, mauled and sent back to strikeforce. lol

Ellenberger might be an interesting fight.

I even think he will beat Silva now.


I agree. Don Henderson was right to say that Silva is manipulating the competition to get fights he can win. He's a genius sure, but he was shown up by the physicality Chael Sonnen brought and GSP will only bring a more intelligent physicality. Honestly, I like GSP's attitude: "Jake Shields is the most exciting challenger? okay... STUFF! Nick calls me out? Okay... STUFF! Hendricks is 2 time NCAA and All American?... STUFF!" That's my projection at least. It's his brain. He's the Sun Tzu of MMA right now.

Silva is manipulating the competition? He has fought, and beaten, everyone the UFC put in front of him including Sonnen twice. If by Don Henderson you mean Dan Henderson then Silva beat him as well.

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Ranzo
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sharkOnesie wrote:
I don't get how people can say GSP is boring. He is amazing to watch and so dominant. His performance against Hardy and Diaz are two of my favorite fights ever.

Saying GSP is boring, to me at least, seems like when casual fans of football used to call AC milan boring for dominating teams and winning 1-0.

Perfection should not have wild trades and scrambles. People IMO should look at his opponents and realise they have hardly ever been stopped. It is not like GSP can't or does not want to finish.


Well my point is that he has a dominant position and he just uses his skills to ride it out when in fact he has several opportunities to inflict large amounts of damage. GSP stated publicly that he was going to put the worst beating on Nick Diaz in the history of the UFC. Well what happened? He hung on to his back and barely traded with him. That equals boring in my book.

I realise that GSP in very talented, I have gained a lot of respect for him but ,it would be better, if he really wooped someones ass instead of riding out for the score. I have to agree with the Gracie Brothers that its not his fault its the organization's. Pride would never stood for such a boring fight. I also think Diaz did not really bring it to GSP either so there is fault on both sides.

In Contrast I think a lot of people like Hendricks because he is exciting and goes for the kill. Even if he sacrifices some technique to do so. That animal like attack is what makes it exciting. My personal opinion is that if you are truly great you can use your skills to open up the big shots or submissions and finish the fight. To me that is the point, you want to hurt the other guy.

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sharkOnesie
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Ranzo wrote:
sharkOnesie wrote:
I don't get how people can say GSP is boring. He is amazing to watch and so dominant. His performance against Hardy and Diaz are two of my favorite fights ever.

Saying GSP is boring, to me at least, seems like when casual fans of football used to call AC milan boring for dominating teams and winning 1-0.

Perfection should not have wild trades and scrambles. People IMO should look at his opponents and realise they have hardly ever been stopped. It is not like GSP can't or does not want to finish.


Well my point is that he has a dominant position and he just uses his skills to ride it out when in fact he has several opportunities to inflict large amounts of damage. GSP stated publicly that he was going to put the worst beating on Nick Diaz in the history of the UFC. Well what happened? He hung on to his back and barely traded with him. That equals boring in my book.

I realise that GSP in very talented, I have gained a lot of respect for him but ,it would be better, if he really wooped someones ass instead of riding out for the score. I have to agree with the Gracie Brothers that its not his fault its the organization's. Pride would never stood for such a boring fight. I also think Diaz did not really bring it to GSP either so there is fault on both sides.

In Contrast I think a lot of people like Hendricks because he is exciting and goes for the kill. Even if he sacrifices some technique to do so. That animal like attack is what makes it exciting. My personal opinion is that if you are truly great you can use your skills to open up the big shots or submissions and finish the fight. To me that is the point, you want to hurt the other guy.


Yeah I get your pov. I was watching the pacman bradley fight and they kept saying you can not improve punching power and that it is something you are born with throughout in reference to bradley. O wonder how much the holding on to dominant ground positions is about scoring the necessary points to win. Seems a smart strategy, why ridk standing with more powerful guys and why risk a sub at the expense of losing position and being made to stand or pit in a precarious situation on the ground.

I mean while I think georges is technically far better on the feet than diaz or hendricks they seem to have far more damaging stand up though less technical and it seems like for GSP the best way to do damage is utilise his wrestling and do some GNP and drop the elbows.

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Pigeonkak
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zecarlo wrote:
Pigeonkak wrote:
humble wrote:
Doubt it. Hendricks is going to get schooled, mauled and sent back to strikeforce. lol

Ellenberger might be an interesting fight.

I even think he will beat Silva now.


I agree. Don Henderson was right to say that Silva is manipulating the competition to get fights he can win. He's a genius sure, but he was shown up by the physicality Chael Sonnen brought and GSP will only bring a more intelligent physicality. Honestly, I like GSP's attitude: "Jake Shields is the most exciting challenger? okay... STUFF! Nick calls me out? Okay... STUFF! Hendricks is 2 time NCAA and All American?... STUFF!" That's my projection at least. It's his brain. He's the Sun Tzu of MMA right now.

Silva is manipulating the competition? He has fought, and beaten, everyone the UFC put in front of him including Sonnen twice. If by Don Henderson you mean Dan Henderson then Silva beat him as well.


First of all, yes - I meant DAN Henderson. Common typo, the 'O' is only on the complete other side of the keyboard to the 'A'. Lol.

Secondly, Henderson's point was that Sonnen had to open up a can of poopy mouth to get Silva to rematch. Weidman (a deserving opponent by any stretch) had to be turned down pretty much constantly even after offering a to fight in Brazil. If anyone here thinks Nick Diaz manipulated the UFC and ratings to get a fight he didn't deserve (and everyone does) then I don't understand why the idea of Silva doing the same to avoid fights is out of this world ridiculous. I think Silva is amazing, but it's clear he fights when he wants to and who he wants to. Which is just great for him, but not necessarily for viewers. That said, I don't think that GSP's natural progression to his becoming legendary NEEDS to have a Silva super fight right this instant.

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