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LondonBoxer123
Level

Join date: Apr 2011
Posts: 649

The fact that you have holes in your game is natural (what with you not having had any fights yet). The fact that you recognise them is good. The fact that you don't get answers when you ask people more knowledgeable than you is not good at all, particularly after a year training.

I started as a little kid, so my experience may not reflect starting as an adult. However, even at the ripe old age of 22, and as one of the better boxers in a top gym, I still get constant input from other fighters, and my coaches. That has been the case my entire time boxing out of my gym. I honestly cant think of a single week over the many years I've been here where I didnt have time with a (more) senior boxer, and time with a coach on top of that. The same has been true for all the lads I've boxed with. To be honest with you, I don't think I would have kept boxing this long if it hadn't been for the time and attention of men I admired, and I certainly wouldn't have reached the level I have, had I not wanted to be worthy of the effort the guys around me put into me.

The environment you train in will have a substantial impact on you as a fighter. My pride doesnt like to admit it, but I could easily, in another gym, have been one of those kids that coped a beating and never came back. Instead, boxing, and the people down my gym, have been massively influential in shaping me for the better. Everyone thinks their sport requires the greatest strength of character and depths of resolve. They're all wrong. They aren't fighters and they don't appreciate the power these sports have to develop you as a person. Don't sell yourself short by being somewhere you don't get the input you deserve, assuming of course that you have been putting out the effort to deserve their respect and attention. If you think you have, and only you can answer that, then you might be in the wrong gym.

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SKELAC
Level

Join date: Nov 2011
Posts: 790

Grimlorn wrote:
LondonBoxer123 wrote:
Are you training as a fighter in a proper gym. If you are the advice we can give you will be different from if you are an enthusiast practising at home

I'm training at a gym that trains fighters. I don't know if I'm training enough or properly. There is only 4 days with 1 hour classes for Muay Thai during the week at night. There is 1 bag/pad conditioning class, 1 technique class, 1 that is half technique and half pad class, and then 1 sparring class. Just doesn't feel like it's enough. Sure we practice a lot of different techniques and stuff, but it's not like I'm getting any advice on what I need to do to improve or what I need to do to prepare for my first fight.


You must develop passion for fighting first.
If you re passionate enough,you ll find a your way to the quality gym,quality coach,to go through grueling training sessions,going through long-term process of building skills,acquiring experience,etc.

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FightinIrish26
Level

Join date: Feb 2005
Posts: 17161

Sentoguy wrote:

Oh, definitely. Anyone who has been doing a combative activity like boxing, wrestling, Jiu-Jitsu or anything else where you are actually having to deal against non cooperative opponents since they were a little kid is going to be a hand full. The skills are so ingrained in their neuro-muscular systems that they're practically like walking or breathing to these individuals.



Wrestlers are fucking nightmares also. Especially in basements and other enclosed areas.

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FightinIrish26
Level

Join date: Feb 2005
Posts: 17161

LondonBoxer123 wrote:
The fact that you have holes in your game is natural (what with you not having had any fights yet). The fact that you recognise them is good. The fact that you don't get answers when you ask people more knowledgeable than you is not good at all, particularly after a year training.

I started as a little kid, so my experience may not reflect starting as an adult. However, even at the ripe old age of 22, and as one of the better boxers in a top gym, I still get constant input from other fighters, and my coaches. That has been the case my entire time boxing out of my gym. I honestly cant think of a single week over the many years I've been here where I didnt have time with a (more) senior boxer, and time with a coach on top of that. The same has been true for all the lads I've boxed with. To be honest with you, I don't think I would have kept boxing this long if it hadn't been for the time and attention of men I admired, and I certainly wouldn't have reached the level I have, had I not wanted to be worthy of the effort the guys around me put into me.

The environment you train in will have a substantial impact on you as a fighter. My pride doesnt like to admit it, but I could easily, in another gym, have been one of those kids that coped a beating and never came back. Instead, boxing, and the people down my gym, have been massively influential in shaping me for the better. Everyone thinks their sport requires the greatest strength of character and depths of resolve. They're all wrong. They aren't fighters and they don't appreciate the power these sports have to develop you as a person. Don't sell yourself short by being somewhere you don't get the input you deserve, assuming of course that you have been putting out the effort to deserve their respect and attention. If you think you have, and only you can answer that, then you might be in the wrong gym.


Another fantastic post.

If you're in a striking art where you get punched in the face, like boxing or Muay Thai, you are tougher than the rest. Striking arts (including kickboxing, Savate, and the like) take more than any other sport, because there is nothing in this world like getting hit in the face.

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devildog_jim
Level

Join date: Jun 2007
Posts: 696

FightinIrish26 wrote:
LondonBoxer123 wrote:
The fact that you have holes in your game is natural (what with you not having had any fights yet). The fact that you recognise them is good. The fact that you don't get answers when you ask people more knowledgeable than you is not good at all, particularly after a year training.

I started as a little kid, so my experience may not reflect starting as an adult. However, even at the ripe old age of 22, and as one of the better boxers in a top gym, I still get constant input from other fighters, and my coaches. That has been the case my entire time boxing out of my gym. I honestly cant think of a single week over the many years I've been here where I didnt have time with a (more) senior boxer, and time with a coach on top of that. The same has been true for all the lads I've boxed with. To be honest with you, I don't think I would have kept boxing this long if it hadn't been for the time and attention of men I admired, and I certainly wouldn't have reached the level I have, had I not wanted to be worthy of the effort the guys around me put into me.

The environment you train in will have a substantial impact on you as a fighter. My pride doesnt like to admit it, but I could easily, in another gym, have been one of those kids that coped a beating and never came back. Instead, boxing, and the people down my gym, have been massively influential in shaping me for the better. Everyone thinks their sport requires the greatest strength of character and depths of resolve. They're all wrong. They aren't fighters and they don't appreciate the power these sports have to develop you as a person. Don't sell yourself short by being somewhere you don't get the input you deserve, assuming of course that you have been putting out the effort to deserve their respect and attention. If you think you have, and only you can answer that, then you might be in the wrong gym.


Another fantastic post.

If you're in a striking art where you get punched in the face, like boxing or Muay Thai, you are tougher than the rest. Striking arts (including kickboxing, Savate, and the like) take more than any other sport, because there is nothing in this world like getting hit in the face.


At both boot camp and in law enforcement training I witnessed many young men being hit in the face for the first time in their life. The absolute blank shock on their face after they got hit was amazing. All of their opponents were gloved, all had mouth guards and were expecting to be hit at some point during the drill, and none dealt with it well.

They've removed a lot of the hand to hand (most of the boxing) since I left FLETC, and it's a decision I disagree with. The kinder, gentler instructor does law enforcement trainees no favors. I certainly wouldn't want anyone who had my back to have hit first time getting punched in the face to be while he was standing 25 yards from the Mexican border.

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dq72391
Level

Join date: Mar 2012
Posts: 7

Ive been boxing for years and I had this same problem at one point what I basically found out that the old school trainers and boxers knew nothing about weight lifting and said not to lift because it will 'slow you down' or whatever... Its bullshit.

Keep lifting just do it smart. I frequently post on a boxing site where I have gotten into countless debates about this same topic so I usually have much more to say about it and effective ways to lift for boxing but I just dont have the time now. I'll post more when I can.

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M.B
Level

Join date: Jun 2006
Posts: 84

Ok here is some great boxing/fighting wisdom from Kevin Rooney....if you do not know who he is you should not be reading this topic anyway :)
It's a bit long but well worth the read.

the most important part ''You gotta go spar till just a couple of days before the fight, man. Nothing can prepare you like sparring can, pushing weights and all that bulls*** has about as much to do with boxing as cheesecake.''




"If you want to be the best you can, then you have to spar every f***ing day. None of this one day on and one day off crap. It's gotta be an all-our war EVERYDAY. To be a great fighter, you have to spar. You gotta spar every day, day in day out, week after week, 52 weeks a year. If you wanna be sharp in the ring and stay sharp at your boxing - you gotta spar. You gotta go spar till just a couple of days before the fight, man. Nothing can prepare you like sparring can, pushing weights and all that bulls*** has about as much to do with boxing as cheesecake.
If your fighter gets a little cut over an eye or a bloody nose and wants the sparring session to end, you gotta say 'f*** that s***, you fight on, if you get a bloody nose on fight night then do you want me to stop that too?', what that does is teach 'em to move their head more! The average person does not know what it takes to become a great fighter, it takes discipline and repetition. It takes mental patience and gives mental pressure, but it's how you handle that - do you say 'Ah f*** it' and have a few beers instead like I did when I was fighting? Or do you dig deep for determination to stay dedicated like Mike Tyson did before he left the Catskills? You see, boxing is 80% mental and 20% physical. Anyone can get in shape, but it's what you have up there that really counts. All of Cus' fighters over-achieved with the exception of Mike, Mike was the one guy who had all the physical gifts. All the other fighters who came to Cus were those who had no physical gifts, or the ones Cus would pick out would be those who couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag.. and he'd transform them over years and years of hard work and repetition. He'd turn very raw material into Golden Gloves winners, from guys who couldn't skip at all into finesse fighters. He was like a magician or something. He would sort out the mental aspect and give them the right advise and they'd be competitive over time. But this was a guy who thought more about principles than anything else, he genuinely cared about his fighters an awful lot. Cus couldn't give a rats ass about money! Money meant nothing to him, he wouldn't sacrifice his fighters health for money. He would never put his fighter in unless he knew his fighter could win, not ever, no matter who it was and even he was a real good fighter, he would never put his fighter in unless he knew that his fighter could win. He never advised pro boxing as a living, it was down to the fighter what he wanted to do. If he wanted Cus' help, Cus would give it. He wouldn't give it unless it was wanted."

"Look, man. As Cus always used to say 'If you gotta pair of fists and a beating heart then you gotta chance to beat anybody. If you have self-belief and the three D's (dedication, determination, discipline) on top of that then your more than likely to become the champ!'. The only guys who stuck it out though and stayed on the right path with the three D's were the Jose Torres' of this world and people like that, you know. It's true ya know that we are all human, none of us are made exceptional to the rest. You know, it's all in the head, boxing is like 80% mental. Yeah, I mean, every fighter has fear and doubts, but Cus always said that 'fear feeds the fuel'. And once you learn to control the fear, then the fear becomes your friend and will help you. If you let the fear take over, you freeze up and you're gonna have a problem. If you have self-confidence though, you have some real advantage there and need to make the most of it in the right way - you have a real advantage because why do most people start boxing? It's because they lack self-confidence! So if you have that aspect, you got advantages there. OK you go find someone who believes in themselves, trains their ass off every day and knows the right tactics. Now if you can find that person, I guarantee that he is a world champion - no s***!
Cus never knew anybody in all his years who had the three D's, self-belief or ability to control fear, and the right tactics who wasn't a world champion. If a fighter came to Cus and started moaning that they weren't getting anywhere, Cus would always find faults in the mental aspect. There are so few that have the three D's, self-belief and right tactics, they are very, very rare. Those that do have that though, are the champs. If you have fear you need to learn how to control it, and if you can control fear then your halfway there already. It's no good training your ass off every day and thinking your gonna kick everyone's ass though if you don't know what your doing, if you don't know the right tactics.. but to be honest with you it is very simple to know what to do. You'd be suprised just how many people don't stick to simple things, and then moan that they aint getting nowhere. The s*** is as follows: 'don't drop your guard.. dont ever neglect your jab.. move your damn head.. hit the body and the head will fall.. don't throw singles, use combinations..', those are the right tactics, doesn't sound much does it? But you'd be suprised just how very, very few keep to all of those tactics. If you keep to those tactics and you got the three D's, and you know how to control your fear, your gonna be the champ!! I swear! I won't say 'it's that easy' because it's easier said than done actually keeping to all that, keeping to that is not actually easy you know.. you gotta work for it, you gotta work like ****!"


"Cus had his fighters train the same from his earliest days til his last days - it never changed. Just like the three D's never change, the three D's never advance and it's the three D's that makes champions. You don't need no special science or pushing weights or any of that bulls***. You need the three D's above anything else, that's whats most important. Then Cus can mould you on a daily basis with advise and secrets and s*** like that, Cus had instinct and wisdom so he was able to mould or could vision well. Really the training was just running 30 minutes a morning and sparring 10 rounds a day - compulsory, increasing size of heavy bag every six months and decreasing size of speed bag every six months, and on top of that maybe some bodyweight exercises such as sit-ups, push-ups, pull-ups, dips - but those are by no means compulsory. Another thing, Cus had a problem when fighters only approached shadowboxing as a warming-up exercise.. which was literally all of 'em! What they do is - they simply go through the motions, p**** about doing f*** all, stab at the air, before moving onto the so-called real workout on the bags. But once you are in the ring, you will be confronted by different opponents who will use different styles and techniques. If you've already seen this guy, played these situations out and predicted your reactions as you shadowboxed, that puts you one step and one punch ahead of your opponent. Think in terms of combination punching.. it's how big, heavy guys like Floyd Patterson and Mike Tyson got their hands moving quick as f*** and their combinations flowing like f***.. without the resistance of a bag or the impact of hitting an opponent to affect your punches, it's shadowboxing that is the time to concentrate on the importance of throwing more than one shot at a time. Taking this approach will create a good habit of punching in combinations. It will also help you to become more fluid in your delivery and create better balance between your footwork and hand activity. Do not throw a meaningless punch, without an opponent to fend off or a bag to react to, you have the time and clear thinking to concentrate on the punches you throw. Throwing a lazy jab or a slapping right hand out doesn't help you in the ring, so do not do it in training. How many boxers do you know who approach shadowboxing as a serious workout? Probably some of the more successful boxers I'd guess.. that's if you know any at all who can actually be bothered to approach his shadowboxing seriously enough. It's no good feeling that skipping is a chore either, you gotta master it to improve your feet. You know something, Cus used to be up at 4am every morning to check his fighters feet and everything when they were going off to do roadwork.. making sure their feet were right when running and s***."

"As far as I'm concerned, if you're a guy who can fight, what would be the reason for taking drugs if you know how to punch right? It's in the technique, and timing is everything when you going for a knockout punch - it's all about timing. Drugs cannot improve timing, but practice can, technique can, experience can.. not drugs. Aiming for the temple, drugs don't help that. Also, I don't care what type of steroid you're taking, there's no way you can beat a guy like 'Smokin' Joe Frazier who's coming after you.. winging punches. No steroid in the world can help you handle something like that! Steroids may make you bigger, but they don't make you better. You gotta be old school and use the three D's, you gotta learn how to punch and you gotta practice like f*** instead of just sticking a needle up your ass. Just because your muscles get bigger doesn't make you a powerful puncher. A perfect example would be the fight between Oscar de la Hoya and Fernando Vargas - there's the proof in the pudding right there."

"Dehydrating s*** is how all the boxers back in the day would make the weight, but that's f***ing horses p***! If you have to starve yourself to make a weight, then you aint fighting in ya proper weight class are you? Come on, it aint no rocket science. You will be at such a disadvatage starving yourself anyway, it's obvious.. no energy and s***. Instead of having fighters dry out, Cus had them work out!"

"Cus had the greatest mind in boxing. He always predicted things that would happen and they all came true, everything came true what he predicted.. I mean, come on man.. it's scarey s*** right? Just a little example is when he had Cassius Clay spar Floyd in 1959, he said there and then that they would one day fight eachother in a heavyweight title fight. When we had Lennox Lewis over in 1984 way before the LA Olympics sparring Mike, he said there and then that those two would one day fight eachother for the heavyweight title. You know, guys would go to him for advise all the time. He was more of an advise man. Ray Robinson went to him and Cus' particular advise for him worked, Rocky Marciano went to him and Cus' particular advise for him worked, Joe Frazier went to him and Cus' particular advise for him worked, to name just a few. Every bit of advise he gave to those who came to him - worked! Ali came to him and actually admitted privately to Cus that he was worried about the Foreman fight, but Cus soon sorted him out mentally. Also, Cus told Ali: 'George doesn't respect your punch, so go out there and nail him!', if you watch the fight, you see in the first two rounds that Ali plants himself and nails Foreman hard with a straight hand - right on the button! Now that was due to some work Cus had done with him for a quick half hour. And you can see the suprise in Foreman's eyes! With 30 seconds left in the rounds, Ali would open up on Foreman. So, after every f***in' round, George is going back to his corner and they'd be telling him that Ali can't punch! That was the psychology and Cus saw that. After the rope-a-dope, Foreman was tired and he more or less gave up. I don't know if Cus gave Ali the rope-a-dope tactics though, I think he may of though."

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FightinIrish26
Level

Join date: Feb 2005
Posts: 17161

M.B wrote:
Ok here is some great boxing/fighting wisdom from Kevin Rooney....if you do not know who he is you should not be reading this topic anyway :)
It's a bit long but well worth the read.

the most important part ''You gotta go spar till just a couple of days before the fight, man. Nothing can prepare you like sparring can, pushing weights and all that bulls*** has about as much to do with boxing as cheesecake.''




"If you want to be the best you can, then you have to spar every f***ing day. None of this one day on and one day off crap. It's gotta be an all-our war EVERYDAY. To be a great fighter, you have to spar. You gotta spar every day, day in day out, week after week, 52 weeks a year. If you wanna be sharp in the ring and stay sharp at your boxing - you gotta spar. You gotta go spar till just a couple of days before the fight, man. Nothing can prepare you like sparring can, pushing weights and all that bulls*** has about as much to do with boxing as cheesecake.
If your fighter gets a little cut over an eye or a bloody nose and wants the sparring session to end, you gotta say 'f*** that s***, you fight on, if you get a bloody nose on fight night then do you want me to stop that too?', what that does is teach 'em to move their head more! The average person does not know what it takes to become a great fighter, it takes discipline and repetition. It takes mental patience and gives mental pressure, but it's how you handle that - do you say 'Ah f*** it' and have a few beers instead like I did when I was fighting? Or do you dig deep for determination to stay dedicated like Mike Tyson did before he left the Catskills? You see, boxing is 80% mental and 20% physical. Anyone can get in shape, but it's what you have up there that really counts. All of Cus' fighters over-achieved with the exception of Mike, Mike was the one guy who had all the physical gifts. All the other fighters who came to Cus were those who had no physical gifts, or the ones Cus would pick out would be those who couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag.. and he'd transform them over years and years of hard work and repetition. He'd turn very raw material into Golden Gloves winners, from guys who couldn't skip at all into finesse fighters. He was like a magician or something. He would sort out the mental aspect and give them the right advise and they'd be competitive over time. But this was a guy who thought more about principles than anything else, he genuinely cared about his fighters an awful lot. Cus couldn't give a rats ass about money! Money meant nothing to him, he wouldn't sacrifice his fighters health for money. He would never put his fighter in unless he knew his fighter could win, not ever, no matter who it was and even he was a real good fighter, he would never put his fighter in unless he knew that his fighter could win. He never advised pro boxing as a living, it was down to the fighter what he wanted to do. If he wanted Cus' help, Cus would give it. He wouldn't give it unless it was wanted."

"Look, man. As Cus always used to say 'If you gotta pair of fists and a beating heart then you gotta chance to beat anybody. If you have self-belief and the three D's (dedication, determination, discipline) on top of that then your more than likely to become the champ!'. The only guys who stuck it out though and stayed on the right path with the three D's were the Jose Torres' of this world and people like that, you know. It's true ya know that we are all human, none of us are made exceptional to the rest. You know, it's all in the head, boxing is like 80% mental. Yeah, I mean, every fighter has fear and doubts, but Cus always said that 'fear feeds the fuel'. And once you learn to control the fear, then the fear becomes your friend and will help you. If you let the fear take over, you freeze up and you're gonna have a problem. If you have self-confidence though, you have some real advantage there and need to make the most of it in the right way - you have a real advantage because why do most people start boxing? It's because they lack self-confidence! So if you have that aspect, you got advantages there. OK you go find someone who believes in themselves, trains their ass off every day and knows the right tactics. Now if you can find that person, I guarantee that he is a world champion - no s***!
Cus never knew anybody in all his years who had the three D's, self-belief or ability to control fear, and the right tactics who wasn't a world champion. If a fighter came to Cus and started moaning that they weren't getting anywhere, Cus would always find faults in the mental aspect. There are so few that have the three D's, self-belief and right tactics, they are very, very rare. Those that do have that though, are the champs. If you have fear you need to learn how to control it, and if you can control fear then your halfway there already. It's no good training your ass off every day and thinking your gonna kick everyone's ass though if you don't know what your doing, if you don't know the right tactics.. but to be honest with you it is very simple to know what to do. You'd be suprised just how many people don't stick to simple things, and then moan that they aint getting nowhere. The s*** is as follows: 'don't drop your guard.. dont ever neglect your jab.. move your damn head.. hit the body and the head will fall.. don't throw singles, use combinations..', those are the right tactics, doesn't sound much does it? But you'd be suprised just how very, very few keep to all of those tactics. If you keep to those tactics and you got the three D's, and you know how to control your fear, your gonna be the champ!! I swear! I won't say 'it's that easy' because it's easier said than done actually keeping to all that, keeping to that is not actually easy you know.. you gotta work for it, you gotta work like ****!"


"Cus had his fighters train the same from his earliest days til his last days - it never changed. Just like the three D's never change, the three D's never advance and it's the three D's that makes champions. You don't need no special science or pushing weights or any of that bulls***. You need the three D's above anything else, that's whats most important. Then Cus can mould you on a daily basis with advise and secrets and s*** like that, Cus had instinct and wisdom so he was able to mould or could vision well. Really the training was just running 30 minutes a morning and sparring 10 rounds a day - compulsory, increasing size of heavy bag every six months and decreasing size of speed bag every six months, and on top of that maybe some bodyweight exercises such as sit-ups, push-ups, pull-ups, dips - but those are by no means compulsory. Another thing, Cus had a problem when fighters only approached shadowboxing as a warming-up exercise.. which was literally all of 'em! What they do is - they simply go through the motions, p**** about doing f*** all, stab at the air, before moving onto the so-called real workout on the bags. But once you are in the ring, you will be confronted by different opponents who will use different styles and techniques. If you've already seen this guy, played these situations out and predicted your reactions as you shadowboxed, that puts you one step and one punch ahead of your opponent. Think in terms of combination punching.. it's how big, heavy guys like Floyd Patterson and Mike Tyson got their hands moving quick as f*** and their combinations flowing like f***.. without the resistance of a bag or the impact of hitting an opponent to affect your punches, it's shadowboxing that is the time to concentrate on the importance of throwing more than one shot at a time. Taking this approach will create a good habit of punching in combinations. It will also help you to become more fluid in your delivery and create better balance between your footwork and hand activity. Do not throw a meaningless punch, without an opponent to fend off or a bag to react to, you have the time and clear thinking to concentrate on the punches you throw. Throwing a lazy jab or a slapping right hand out doesn't help you in the ring, so do not do it in training. How many boxers do you know who approach shadowboxing as a serious workout? Probably some of the more successful boxers I'd guess.. that's if you know any at all who can actually be bothered to approach his shadowboxing seriously enough. It's no good feeling that skipping is a chore either, you gotta master it to improve your feet. You know something, Cus used to be up at 4am every morning to check his fighters feet and everything when they were going off to do roadwork.. making sure their feet were right when running and s***."

"As far as I'm concerned, if you're a guy who can fight, what would be the reason for taking drugs if you know how to punch right? It's in the technique, and timing is everything when you going for a knockout punch - it's all about timing. Drugs cannot improve timing, but practice can, technique can, experience can.. not drugs. Aiming for the temple, drugs don't help that. Also, I don't care what type of steroid you're taking, there's no way you can beat a guy like 'Smokin' Joe Frazier who's coming after you.. winging punches. No steroid in the world can help you handle something like that! Steroids may make you bigger, but they don't make you better. You gotta be old school and use the three D's, you gotta learn how to punch and you gotta practice like f*** instead of just sticking a needle up your ass. Just because your muscles get bigger doesn't make you a powerful puncher. A perfect example would be the fight between Oscar de la Hoya and Fernando Vargas - there's the proof in the pudding right there."

"Dehydrating s*** is how all the boxers back in the day would make the weight, but that's f***ing horses p***! If you have to starve yourself to make a weight, then you aint fighting in ya proper weight class are you? Come on, it aint no rocket science. You will be at such a disadvatage starving yourself anyway, it's obvious.. no energy and s***. Instead of having fighters dry out, Cus had them work out!"

"Cus had the greatest mind in boxing. He always predicted things that would happen and they all came true, everything came true what he predicted.. I mean, come on man.. it's scarey s*** right? Just a little example is when he had Cassius Clay spar Floyd in 1959, he said there and then that they would one day fight eachother in a heavyweight title fight. When we had Lennox Lewis over in 1984 way before the LA Olympics sparring Mike, he said there and then that those two would one day fight eachother for the heavyweight title. You know, guys would go to him for advise all the time. He was more of an advise man. Ray Robinson went to him and Cus' particular advise for him worked, Rocky Marciano went to him and Cus' particular advise for him worked, Joe Frazier went to him and Cus' particular advise for him worked, to name just a few. Every bit of advise he gave to those who came to him - worked! Ali came to him and actually admitted privately to Cus that he was worried about the Foreman fight, but Cus soon sorted him out mentally. Also, Cus told Ali: 'George doesn't respect your punch, so go out there and nail him!', if you watch the fight, you see in the first two rounds that Ali plants himself and nails Foreman hard with a straight hand - right on the button! Now that was due to some work Cus had done with him for a quick half hour. And you can see the suprise in Foreman's eyes! With 30 seconds left in the rounds, Ali would open up on Foreman. So, after every f***in' round, George is going back to his corner and they'd be telling him that Ali can't punch! That was the psychology and Cus saw that. After the rope-a-dope, Foreman was tired and he more or less gave up. I don't know if Cus gave Ali the rope-a-dope tactics though, I think he may of though."



That's one of the best things I've ever seen posted on this forum. Thank you for it.

Where did you find that gem?

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M.B
Level

Join date: Jun 2006
Posts: 84

Someone posted it on a boxing forum 10 years ago and I had it saved on my pc.....

I think those words of wisdom should be on a wall in every boxing gym in the world....it always comes down to the most simple things in the end if you want to get good at boxing I wonder what you have to do?....just box some more it's that simple,I do not know why people always complicate things...but I think it's just us the internet warriors that do that the world champions are doing what needs to be done while we are arguing if lifting weights will make you better at fighting.....anyone who trained any fighting sports knows that muscles have as much to do with fighting as............cheesecake as Rooney put it :)).

And this is just from personal exp after I gave up lifting weights I'm lot better at boxing related shit I do not care what other people say but I have seen it in me and a lot of other people who train fighting sports

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M.B
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Join date: Jun 2006
Posts: 84

Also for some good ideas about boxing fight specific conditioning I recommend these to anyone involved in fighting sports

TITLE Boxing DVD - Cross Training for Boxing I - Upper Body and Core
TITLE Boxing DVD - Cross Training for Boxing II - Lower Body and Trunk

You can also find them on-line for free ;) or buy them from title boxing.They're on sale for 10 bucks each.

The guy giving the instruction is Justin Fortune,he's the conditioning trainer for Freddie Roach's fighters it deals with plyometrics and you also have Freddie on the video talking about how his fighters train If you are a fighter these guys are the ones you need to listen to man guys who train the champions and fought themselves in the ring not some conditioning strength coach who never even sparred a round in his life.

If you check the dvd's out you will see how simple and ''old school'' the champions still train,roadwork,plyometrics,core training....so simple man





And here is GSP on strength and conditioning for mma :)

Georges St. Pierre: "I don't believe in strength and conditioning. I never do strength and conditioning. I do not believe that running on a treadmill or doing I don't know what, so called machine. I don't believe that's going to help you have better cardio for a fight. I think everything in fighting is about efficiency."

Joe Rogan: "So you don't do strength and conditioning as far as like hitting tires with sledgehammers?"

GSP: "I never did it in my life. I remember I had a Muay Thai instructor from France, that I even brought on the reality show The Ultimate Fighter. The guy smoked, I don't know how many packs of cigarettes a day. He's always drinking alcohol. He's a real character, and he's completely out of shape, but when he spars with us in Muay Thai, he kicks everyone's ass. The reason is because he is more efficient than we are."

"In the UFC, I do believe everyone is in shape. We're all athletes, you know... but the reason I believe a guy is more tired than another guy, is because one guy is more efficient than the other. One guy is able to bring the fight to where he is strongest, and the other guy to where he is out of his comfort zone."

"The only reason it is good to lift weights, to do bench press, and stuff like that, I believe, is because it is going to make me more marketable, and to keep myself looking more symmetric, with a better image... Which is very important, because if you look good, you feel good, and if you feel good, you do good. There's nothing wrong with that you know."

Rogan: "You lift weights for looks?"

GSP: "Yeah, I lift weights for looks. Yeah, I am gonna admit it. Sometimes after I'm training, I'm gonna lift weights, but I'm not doing it because I'm gonna punch harder, or I'm gonna be stronger, because it has nothing to do with it. I'm doing it because you know, I want to to be like you know, have a good shape. I do it for myself."

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/...in-strength-and

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justrob
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Join date: Feb 2006
Posts: 455

"Why lifting weights won't increase punching power" - prob been posted on here already, but breaks it down well.

http://www.expertboxing.com/...-punching-power

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M.B
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Join date: Jun 2006
Posts: 84

justrob wrote:
"Why lifting weights won't increase punching power" - prob been posted on here already, but breaks it down well.

http://www.expertboxing.com/...-punching-power



Very good article,cleared up a lot of things for me,must read for anyone!

Thank you!

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FightinIrish26
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Join date: Feb 2005
Posts: 17161

justrob wrote:
"Why lifting weights won't increase punching power" - prob been posted on here already, but breaks it down well.

http://www.expertboxing.com/...-punching-power


I have never seen that posted on here, and that is probably the second greatest thing I have seen posted on this forum.

Finally, FINALLY, someone enumerates the real issue - which is that in lifting, you're straining and tensing every muscle to do the job, while in boxing you're trying to RELAX every muscle in order to get power.

I never thought about it, but the two things are really polar opposites, and it might actually be impossible for there to be any carry over - how could there be when the purpose of punching is to NOT tense up?

What a great piece. Can't believe I never thought of that.

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justrob
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Join date: Feb 2006
Posts: 455

FightinIrish26 wrote:
justrob wrote:
"Why lifting weights won't increase punching power" - prob been posted on here already, but breaks it down well.

http://www.expertboxing.com/...-punching-power


I have never seen that posted on here, and that is probably the second greatest thing I have seen posted on this forum.

Finally, FINALLY, someone enumerates the real issue - which is that in lifting, you're straining and tensing every muscle to do the job, while in boxing you're trying to RELAX every muscle in order to get power.

I never thought about it, but the two things are really polar opposites, and it might actually be impossible for there to be any carry over - how could there be when the purpose of punching is to NOT tense up?

What a great piece. Can't believe I never thought of that.


My old Muay Thai teacher used to constantly tell us 2 things:

1. Power comes from technique

2. Relax into the punch

While my technique and power improved over time, never really "got it" (mentally) until I read that article.

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InZain
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Join date: May 2012
Posts: 64

FightinIrish26 wrote:
joutmez wrote:
So I am sure that there have been multiple threads such as this one but I could not find any with the exact information I wanted. So anyways I am taking a hiatus from my bb pursuits because I was just unrelenting in my lifting I pushed it even when my body begged me to slow down. End result was a fucked up rotator and a constantly aching lower back among other things.

I figured I have to stay active why not learn to box and try to get into "fight" shape. I joined a local boxing gym that just opened up and the place is awesome. It has a couple former pros one being two time wbo middle weight champ William Joppy and a few less known active pros.

But I am getting frustrated because going from lifting 5 times a week bb split to this were I dont really know how to train has left me confused. I don't know how much weightlifting to incorporate. My coach said to stop pumping iron completely and just focuse on pullups/chinups push ups and dips ect. I also don't know what type of conditioning workouts to implement. They have boxing cardio classes which are surprisingly great if you give it 100 %, several of which are instructed by joppy. But the music they play is too gay for me(wocka flocka) and the soccer mom to guy ratio is just too high. If anyone wouldn't mind showing what their boxing training looks like I would appreciate it a lot. I am trying to train with the intent of actually stepping in the ring eventually.


OK man, let me tell you this - if you're gonna get in the ring - SERIOUSLY - fuck that weightlifting bullshit. You need to learn how to box first, and you're going to be using muscles you didn't know you had and wearing yourself out like you never thought you would.

Your technique is most important. Every waking moment, you should be processing what your trainer is teaching you, and shadowboxing, shadowboxing, shadowboxing. This is what's going to make you develop a flow, a style, and a rhythm, which, if you're white, probably doesn't come naturally to you.

Your technique is also where all of your power is going to come from. It's got nothing to do with weight room strength or squat numbers or any of that other shit - it's from your technique (as well as other things like range and timing, which you will learn about later from your trainer.)

But your technique, unfortunately, won't do shit for you if you're too tired to use it. This is where your roadwork is gonna come in. Run ever morning, without fail. Start slow, but get your miles in. Most trainers shoot for 20 or 25 minutes of running, some do it in different ways or have different methods. My coach says to run around the track, and at the curve, start sprinting, and at the straightaway, jog. But like I said, different guys do it differently. B

This is important though - don't let any cocksucker tell you that running won't do anything for your boxing. If you don't run, you WILL SUCK in the ring. This is guaranteed.

As far as pushups, pullups, and dips, you gotta understand what the trainer is looking for, which is extremely high levels of endurance. Even an ammy fight, going 3 two minute rounds, will sap every bit of strength from you and make you struggle to keep your hands up by the end. High rep pushups and dips are going to give you more endurance in those muscles that will tire out first, namely the deltoids.

I suggest doing a lot of bandwork for your rear delts also, because those will tire out fast but are often overlooked by boxers.

If you don't dig the cardio classes, don't worry about it. You put in 12 or 14 rounds every day, and run, and you'll be gettin plenty of cardio.

Lastly, SHADOWBOX. Do it when you wake up, before you go to sleep, at lunch, in the bathroom, EVERYWHERE, all the time. Do at least three to five rounds a day totally independent of your workout, going light and easy but concentrating on rhythm and stringing punches together. This will pay off.

As for lifting, it's last, absolutely last, on the list. If you really want to keep it up, I suggest a shortened version of 5/3/1 that has you lift once, maybe twice a week, and doesn't incorporate many assistance exercises. If you do too much volume and get up in the ring, YOU WILL FEEL IT.

I lift twice a week still, but that's only because I'm not competitive and I still love to lift and stay thick. If I was competing - and that idea has crossed my mind - I would drop it to one day and just do a couple big lifts.

Here is my log: http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...log_o_the_irish

You are now a fighter. You must now think like a fighter, and you must now train like a figher. Listen to William Joppy - he's been in the ring with the best of this generation, and he beat Roberto Duran (even though Duran was like 90). Whatever he tells you to do, you do it.

I know this was long and rambling but if you got any questions I'll see if I can help you out.


Amen to EVERYTHING this man said! Preach!

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Antonio. B
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Join date: Oct 2011
Posts: 82

if you train boxing you can only lift weights as an accessory exercises... you have to be very efficient on exercise selection, do only basic lifts - shoulder press, pull ups, squats. It will be enough. And if you want to be successful in boxing competition you will probably have to lose weight, and then forget about lifting weights at all... if you naturally aren't heavier weight built with adequate bone structure and so on, gaining muscle and going heavier weight in competition could be seeking dizzy adventures, as a former boxer I don't recommend it...

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