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FightinIrish26
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Join date: Feb 2005
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 16929

DazeDolo wrote:
Finished my first boxing session. Was very fun and intense..I can defnitely see that it'll be affecting my gym workouts. My shoulders have no endurance and was very hard for me moving with my hands up for more than 50 seconds. Going to stop working out for 2 or 3 weeks to see how things go with boxing and then adjut the volume in my workouts. Going 5 days a week boxing.


Good. Stick with it. You will find it to be all consuming.

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FightinIrish26
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Join date: Feb 2005
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 16929

Most of the advice given here I agree with though. Gaining muscle (or, really, weight of any kind) while boxing is going to be difficult.

Most guys just don't have enough in the tank to do it all.

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donnydarkoirl
Level 1

Join date: Mar 2013
Location: Ireland
Posts: 477

FightinIrish26 wrote:
London, I've really got to say, I truly, strongly disagree with this. Really.

I'm not sure if I'll ever compete, honestly. I'd have to get my shoulder surgically fixed first, and with my career I don't have the time now, and with how shaky shoulder surgery ends up, I might never have that time or inclination.

However, that doesn't mean that I, or anyone like me, shouldn't find their way into the boxing gym. It doesn't mean that this dude shouldn't either. I know what you're saying with the more muscular, swaggering types who you hate - every gym gets them. But not everyone who doesn't want to fight is like that.

And really - they may not know they want to fight right away. That hunger may grow in them as they train, and after six months, they make the choice to really go hard.

As long as you're willing to work and willing to learn, there's a home for you in a boxing gym. It's not up to you, or me, or anyone else to tell anyone that they shouldn't go and learn what they want to learn in pursuit of finding what most of us look at as an indispensable lifestyle (and we know it's way more than just a sport.)

Elitism is for bodybuilders. It's not for boxers. We should welcome all.

I agree. In our sports decline the past few years, we should welcome all interested, embrace their enthusiasm and ensure our sports viability into the future.
However....
I don't know LondonBoxer at all, but just a couple of points I have deduced.
Given his username, I take it he trains/coaches/competes in the UK's capital.
I spent five months of last year commuting through London; training opportunistically; as often as I could.
I attended Rooney's, TKO, Peacocks and a miscellany of other gyms that were open to me (sadly I never made it to the acclaimed Islington or Repton gyms.)
But from my intrusions, I learned that boxing is thriving in the UK. At an amateur level it is doing well, at professional level its great, but also the casual user and White Collar enthusiast are welcome and in attendance.

I can hand on heart say in my home gym or any gym in the west of Ireland, this could never happen; these people could not be accomodated as the gyms are generally much smaller and more than filled with competitors.
However, in London gyms; to make way this is essential; to pay Rent, rates and utilities.
With all due respect; I say this only as a raw fact; I mean no offense to anyone But sometimes for the serious competitor, it can be a nuisance to share space with someone not focused on competing.
No matter how motivated you are, there is no greater motivation than an opponent's shadow hanging over night and day for 8 weeks before a fight.
To have a fitness enthusiast on the next bag can and does affect quality training.

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donnydarkoirl
Level 1

Join date: Mar 2013
Location: Ireland
Posts: 477

donnydarkoirl wrote:
I agree. In our sports decline the past few years, we should welcome all interested, embrace their enthusiasm and ensure our sports viability into the future.
However....
I don't know LondonBoxer at all, but just a couple of points I have deduced.
Given his username, I take it he trains/coaches/competes in the UK's capital.
I spent five months of last year commuting through London; training opportunistically; as often as I could.
I attended Rooney's, TKO, Peacocks and a miscellany of other gyms that were open to me (sadly I never made it to the acclaimed Islington or Repton gyms.)
But from my intrusions, I learned that boxing is thriving in the UK. At an amateur level it is doing well, at professional level its great, but also the casual user and White Collar enthusiast are welcome and in attendance.

I can hand on heart say in my home gym or any gym in the west of Ireland, this could never happen; these people could not be accomodated as the gyms are generally much smaller and more than filled with competitors.
However, in London gyms; to make way this is essential; to pay Rent, rates and utilities.
With all due respect; I say this only as a raw fact; I mean no offense to anyone But sometimes for the serious competitor, it can be a nuisance to share space with someone not focused on competing.
No matter how motivated you are, there is no greater motivation than an opponent's shadow hanging over night and day for 8 weeks before a fight.
To have a fitness enthusiast on the next bag can and does affect quality training.

Wow, the new guy is a bitch...

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LondonBoxer123
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Join date: Apr 2011
Location:
Posts: 639

FightinIrish26 wrote:
LondonBoxer123 wrote:
The point is, if you're not looking to compete, you'd be doing yourself and the gym a favour if you did boxercise or bought yourself a bag.


London, I've really got to say, I truly, strongly disagree with this. Really.

I'm not sure if I'll ever compete, honestly. I'd have to get my shoulder surgically fixed first, and with my career I don't have the time now, and with how shaky shoulder surgery ends up, I might never have that time or inclination.

However, that doesn't mean that I, or anyone like me, shouldn't find their way into the boxing gym. It doesn't mean that this dude shouldn't either. I know what you're saying with the more muscular, swaggering types who you hate - every gym gets them. But not everyone who doesn't want to fight is like that.

And really - they may not know they want to fight right away. That hunger may grow in them as they train, and after six months, they make the choice to really go hard.

As long as you're willing to work and willing to learn, there's a home for you in a boxing gym. It's not up to you, or me, or anyone else to tell anyone that they shouldn't go and learn what they want to learn in pursuit of finding what most of us look at as an indispensable lifestyle (and we know it's way more than just a sport.)

Elitism is for bodybuilders. It's not for boxers. We should welcome all.


I actually agree with you mate. My post was in the context of a question that seemed to be asking whether it was possible to do boxing as a secondary thing, prioritising weight training. To me, that is a very serious difference from someone like you, who throws themselves into the sport trains hard, spars where possible, but just isn't in a position to compete.

The point I was hoping to make, obviously badly, is that there is no place for people half-arsing boxing, because floor space is limited. If someone isn't going to look to dedicate themselves to the sport, then I do believe they shouldn't waste a boxing gym's time.

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LondonBoxer123
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Join date: Apr 2011
Location:
Posts: 639

donnydarkoirl wrote:
donnydarkoirl wrote:
I agree. In our sports decline the past few years, we should welcome all interested, embrace their enthusiasm and ensure our sports viability into the future.
However....
I don't know LondonBoxer at all, but just a couple of points I have deduced.
Given his username, I take it he trains/coaches/competes in the UK's capital.
I spent five months of last year commuting through London; training opportunistically; as often as I could.
I attended Rooney's, TKO, Peacocks and a miscellany of other gyms that were open to me (sadly I never made it to the acclaimed Islington or Repton gyms.)
But from my intrusions, I learned that boxing is thriving in the UK. At an amateur level it is doing well, at professional level its great, but also the casual user and White Collar enthusiast are welcome and in attendance.

I can hand on heart say in my home gym or any gym in the west of Ireland, this could never happen; these people could not be accomodated as the gyms are generally much smaller and more than filled with competitors.
However, in London gyms; to make way this is essential; to pay Rent, rates and utilities.
With all due respect; I say this only as a raw fact; I mean no offense to anyone But sometimes for the serious competitor, it can be a nuisance to share space with someone not focused on competing.
No matter how motivated you are, there is no greater motivation than an opponent's shadow hanging over night and day for 8 weeks before a fight.
To have a fitness enthusiast on the next bag can and does affect quality training.

Wow, the new guy is a bitch...


I think you're spot on here mate. (Edit: with the long post, not the bitch post. Saw how that might be read)

You get bonus points for your deduction as well. I've boxed out of one of those gyms all my life.

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Aussie Davo
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Join date: Jan 2009
Location:
Posts: 1083

FightinIrish26 wrote:
LondonBoxer123 wrote:
The point is, if you're not looking to compete, you'd be doing yourself and the gym a favour if you did boxercise or bought yourself a bag.


London, I've really got to say, I truly, strongly disagree with this. Really.

I'm not sure if I'll ever compete, honestly. I'd have to get my shoulder surgically fixed first, and with my career I don't have the time now, and with how shaky shoulder surgery ends up, I might never have that time or inclination.

However, that doesn't mean that I, or anyone like me, shouldn't find their way into the boxing gym. It doesn't mean that this dude shouldn't either. I know what you're saying with the more muscular, swaggering types who you hate - every gym gets them. But not everyone who doesn't want to fight is like that.

And really - they may not know they want to fight right away. That hunger may grow in them as they train, and after six months, they make the choice to really go hard.

As long as you're willing to work and willing to learn, there's a home for you in a boxing gym. It's not up to you, or me, or anyone else to tell anyone that they shouldn't go and learn what they want to learn in pursuit of finding what most of us look at as an indispensable lifestyle (and we know it's way more than just a sport.)

Elitism is for bodybuilders. It's not for boxers. We should welcome all.



I agree with this mostly.

I started boxing at 15 because I was looking to do something for fitness and because I wanted to get my dick sucked by chicks with fighter fetish. Had no intention of actually being a fighter.

A year later I was scared as fuck but I wanted to compete. Been in love with the sport ever since.

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FightinIrish26
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Join date: Feb 2005
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 16929

LondonBoxer123 wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
LondonBoxer123 wrote:
The point is, if you're not looking to compete, you'd be doing yourself and the gym a favour if you did boxercise or bought yourself a bag.


London, I've really got to say, I truly, strongly disagree with this. Really.

I'm not sure if I'll ever compete, honestly. I'd have to get my shoulder surgically fixed first, and with my career I don't have the time now, and with how shaky shoulder surgery ends up, I might never have that time or inclination.

However, that doesn't mean that I, or anyone like me, shouldn't find their way into the boxing gym. It doesn't mean that this dude shouldn't either. I know what you're saying with the more muscular, swaggering types who you hate - every gym gets them. But not everyone who doesn't want to fight is like that.

And really - they may not know they want to fight right away. That hunger may grow in them as they train, and after six months, they make the choice to really go hard.

As long as you're willing to work and willing to learn, there's a home for you in a boxing gym. It's not up to you, or me, or anyone else to tell anyone that they shouldn't go and learn what they want to learn in pursuit of finding what most of us look at as an indispensable lifestyle (and we know it's way more than just a sport.)

Elitism is for bodybuilders. It's not for boxers. We should welcome all.


I actually agree with you mate. My post was in the context of a question that seemed to be asking whether it was possible to do boxing as a secondary thing, prioritising weight training. To me, that is a very serious difference from someone like you, who throws themselves into the sport trains hard, spars where possible, but just isn't in a position to compete.

The point I was hoping to make, obviously badly, is that there is no place for people half-arsing boxing, because floor space is limited. If someone isn't going to look to dedicate themselves to the sport, then I do believe they shouldn't waste a boxing gym's time.


With that, I wholeheartedly agree.

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DazeDolo
Level 1

Join date: Feb 2011
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 340

Thanks for the encouraging comments.. Anything i can do outside of the gym to help improve my performance and me some sort of edge?

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FightinIrish26
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Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 16929

DazeDolo wrote:
Thanks for the encouraging comments.. Anything i can do outside of the gym to help improve my performance and me some sort of edge?


Run.

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LondonBoxer123
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Join date: Apr 2011
Location:
Posts: 639

FightinIrish26 wrote:
DazeDolo wrote:
Thanks for the encouraging comments.. Anything i can do outside of the gym to help improve my performance and me some sort of edge?


Run.


Run and shadow box.

There's some quote about excellence being the result of what you repeatedly do. That is very true with boxing. Any chance I get, I throw a jab or two, or a combo, or work on a slip, shot, set up etc. Once you have some tuition under your belt, you can do a lot to improve your skills by yourself practising in front of the mirror.

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DazeDolo
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Join date: Feb 2011
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 340

LondonBoxer123 wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
DazeDolo wrote:
Thanks for the encouraging comments.. Anything i can do outside of the gym to help improve my performance and me some sort of edge?


Run.


Run and shadow box.

There's some quote about excellence being the result of what you repeatedly do. That is very true with boxing. Any chance I get, I throw a jab or two, or a combo, or work on a slip, shot, set up etc. Once you have some tuition under your belt, you can do a lot to improve your skills by yourself practising in front of the mirror.


Got it. Was told to do this by my trainer today .

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LondonBoxer123
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Also, run with your hands up in your guard. It'll build up the stamina you need without you having to get punched in the face.

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rundymc
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Join date: May 2009
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1323

magick wrote:
Captnoblivious wrote:
Isn't their room for a comfortable equilibrium between fight skills and aesthetics? I'm not talking about being a competitive fighter either. More training to defend yourself, which for some like is me escaping the situation or being able to escalate the level of violence to survive the situation.


Heh.

I would love to have the physique Pacquiao or Marquez had during their third and fourth fights. I will absolutely not be able to drop weight as much as they have. Iirc, they were at 150 during those fights? I currently stand at 158 with four-pack. If I can get to 155-160 with a six-pack, I would be a very happy man.

But it needs to be stated that bodybuilding is a sport, just like how combat sports are... a sport. Getting the jacked, muscular body-shape requires sacrifices that a professional boxer cannot achieve. Professional boxers frequently fight at weights far, far below their actual natural weight. Good luck getting a jacked body when you're fighting at weights 10-30lb lower than you're supposed to.

I'll return to Marquez. I am the exact same height as he is, and I feel most natural when I'm sitting at 155-165. The man fought at weights ranging from 120-140 for most of his professional career. I simply cannot imagine looking muscular at that weight. Hell, I cannot imagine myself fighting a 12 round fight at that weight.

But that's boxing. Professional boxing requires tremendous sacrifice, and that is largely incompatible with body-building or having an aesthetically pleasing body.

Grappling, on the other hand, is a different story. Making weight is far less punishing for grappling (many contests and tournaments that I know of don't even have weight requirements), and as such you have people who look far more like they're supposed to for an athlete of their caliber and size.

Not to mention, having a 300lb bench or a 400lb squat won't make you punch faster in the slightest. Having a 300lb bench does give you the power to push off that 170lb guy lying on top of you when compared to a 200lb bench.

So, if you want to having an aesthetically pleasing body while doing some combat sport, look into either MMA or pure grappling, not boxing.


Agreed, but:

Grappling still has weight classes. Wrestlers cut a good amount of weight, as do Judokas. In BJJ/sub-grappling though, it's not as prevalent, and there is usually an open weight division that is popular among >75kg competitors.

You're spot on with the strength-advantage argument in grappling though. Big backs and legs help tremendously.

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DazeDolo
Level 1

Join date: Feb 2011
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 340

LondonBoxer123 wrote:
Also, run with your hands up in your guard. It'll build up the stamina you need without you having to get punched in the face.


Starting to realize how ignorant i sounded talking about weight lifting and progressing in the gym while boxing lol.

My shoulders are worn the fuck out. 3 minute rounds of 100 jabs on the heavy bag all week at the gym and my shoulders feel horrible. No way in hell i'd be able to bench or even do a shoulder press after that . What i have been doing is some pullups and light rear delt flys after my boxing workout.

Kinda frustrated . My sucks really badly compared to everyone else in my gym . Feels so slow and soft . I have very long arms.

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LondonBoxer123
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DazeDolo wrote:
LondonBoxer123 wrote:
Also, run with your hands up in your guard. It'll build up the stamina you need without you having to get punched in the face.


Starting to realize how ignorant i sounded talking about weight lifting and progressing in the gym while boxing lol.

My shoulders are worn the fuck out. 3 minute rounds of 100 jabs on the heavy bag all week at the gym and my shoulders feel horrible. No way in hell i'd be able to bench or even do a shoulder press after that . What i have been doing is some pullups and light rear delt flys after my boxing workout.

Kinda frustrated . My sucks really badly compared to everyone else in my gym . Feels so slow and soft . I have very long arms.


Ye, the reality is you can only really make good progress in one, while trying to maintain in the other. So you can either focus on weights, and maintain your current boxing ability, or focus on the boxing and maintain your weight lifting. Boxing isn't a fun sport to suck at...

If you're training hard, always pushing yourself, you will likely always find that the days you aren't boxing will be needed for recovery. Once you're up to sparring, you're going to be physically and mentally drained by a hard session. There's a reason no pros are sparring 12 rounds a day every day. You need light days where you can recover. For you, that might mean a switch of focus to a few core movements with a barbell.

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FightinIrish26
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Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 16929

DazeDolo wrote:
LondonBoxer123 wrote:
Also, run with your hands up in your guard. It'll build up the stamina you need without you having to get punched in the face.


Starting to realize how ignorant i sounded talking about weight lifting and progressing in the gym while boxing lol.

My shoulders are worn the fuck out. 3 minute rounds of 100 jabs on the heavy bag all week at the gym and my shoulders feel horrible. No way in hell i'd be able to bench or even do a shoulder press after that . What i have been doing is some pullups and light rear delt flys after my boxing workout.

Kinda frustrated . My sucks really badly compared to everyone else in my gym . Feels so slow and soft . I have very long arms.


Yea, the "breaking-in" pain that you feel in that initial few weeks of boxing is worse than almost any other sport, at least that I've experienced. That repetitive but still unnatural motion of throwing a correct punch beats the hell out of your shoulders, and makes you realize pretty quickly why fighting is different than lifting, and being strong in one doesn't translate to being strong in the other.

As Vince Lombardi said, "Fatigue makes cowards of us all."

Again, keep at it though. It won't always be like that - eventually you'll be banging out 12 or 15 round workouts and you won't even feel it in your shoulders anymore.

That might be two or three years from now, but it will happen haha.

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DazeDolo
Level 1

Join date: Feb 2011
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 340

Shoulders feeling a lot better . Still not 100 percent lol but im able to keep my hands up now atleast without getting tired . Feels like im progressing pretty well.

Yesterday did 4 rounds of pad work(mostly jabs. he'd move around and make me throw about 50-60 jabs and then followed by a couple crosses and left hooks each round. all rounds are 3 minutes long and only get a 30 second rest).Then i moved on to the heavy bag(the circl not the long one). Did 100 jabs each round . Did 4 rounds and then i did another 4 rounds on the double end ball tryna work on some combos and head movement. Finally ended my workout with the speed bag tryna get the hang of it and did a ton of ab work. My abs are really weak, gotta get them strong asap.
Forgot to mention did 4 rounds of jump rope as well.

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Dahollow
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Join date: Nov 2009
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I used to work out 6 times a week. Since I hate running/cycling/... I decided to do 4x gym and 2x thaibox. At first it was hard. I had to rework my workout regime completely. I couldn't train legs 1 or 2 days before the thaibox training, because getting lowkicks on legs you hammered the day before isn't very comfortable.

My gains... well I lost about 5kgs after 6 months (110kg => 105kg), but I guess this is mostly bodyfat. My performance in the gym is equal to before. I look more defined.

That said I do eat a lot of BCAA's before, during and after the thaibox, because it will be catabolic in a certain degree.

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DazeDolo
Level 1

Join date: Feb 2011
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 340

jab has gotten a lot of better . feels a lot stronger and endurance has increased. going to start doing sprints and more rope work to imrpove my conditioning. it fucking sucks.

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LBramble
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Join date: Mar 2008
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Posts: 151

DazeDolo wrote:
jab has gotten a lot of better . feels a lot stronger and endurance has increased. going to start doing sprints and more rope work to imrpove my conditioning. it fucking sucks.


Awesome!,

Once you put on that headgear and mouth piece for the first and start sparring where someone is throwing back at you with bad intentions, your focus will be far far far away from wanting to work in some extra benchpressing.
Sure, the pro's do use weight training, but to a small extent, and remember that's their job. Thats all they do. They have the free time to recover during the day. No job, no school. And any pro would tell you, if they had to cut out one thing they did in training and not have it effect their performance in the ring....it would be the weights.

Do drop a line after your first sparring session. Thats the shit.

LB

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fnf
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Join date: Oct 2002
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Posts: 799

Couldn't agree anymore LB. If you start sparring religiously, weights will soon become secondary. Remember technique is most important and then conditioning.

If you want to increase endurance, run like Irish as said many times. And argued about many times.
Jumping rope will help you become lighter on your feet. I move like a robot sometimes, but jumping rope makes me feel like less of a robot.

As one of my old trainers said, "Work the jab, then work the jab some more. And when your done, work the jab again. By the way, did you work on your jab today?" lol

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