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Mediocre Men
 

countingbeans
Level 2

Join date: Oct 2008
Location:
Posts: 19099

Bricknyce wrote:
Why does everyone have to constantly progress?


You really need this explained to you?

Really?

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Bricknyce
Level 1

Join date: Nov 2002
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 5068

countingbeans wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:
Why does everyone have to constantly progress?


You really need this explained to you?

Really?



I'm being serious.

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Bricknyce
Level 1

Join date: Nov 2002
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 5068

countingbeans wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:
Why does everyone have to constantly progress?


You really need this explained to you?

Really?



I'll give you an example, and I'm being serious.

Here's a description of a dude.

Age: 30 to 40 something.

Occupation: An ordinary job. Maybe a profession (eg, gym teacher, teacher, social work, nurse) or a manual labor job (eg, tow truck driver, cop, firefighter, maintenance or garbage man, or plumber). Likes stability (likes that pension) and stability of his job. Involved in a job in which a high degree of ambition is UNWARRANTED.

Physical description: "In shape" and is fine with it. Max bench: 2-something or high 2's. Can run a bit and play some hoops on the weekends.

Intellect: Maybe a little concerned with the world around him, but don't plan on discussing so much deep stuff with this dude; he doesn't care to.

Romantic life: Has a girlfriend or wife or likes to just date and get laid. If he's married, maybe he has a kid or two or a few.

Likability/morality level: A friendly, good natured guy.

Social life: Has plenty of friends that he likes doing ordinary fun shit with.

Overall satisfaction with life: Medium to high or doesn't occur to him. Lives life, and that's that!

I'm NOT arguing with you here, nor do I care to (I've informed you of this before). In what area does this guy need "constant and never ending improvement?"

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countingbeans
Level 2

Join date: Oct 2008
Location:
Posts: 19099

Bricknyce wrote:
In what area does this guy need "constant and never ending improvement?"


lol........

I know you "get it" and that is why I wonder why you continue to pander this shit man.

Good luck maintaining a happy marriage if you plan on NEVER growing as a person, changing or otherwise developing the person you are.

People are fucking miserable not because they can't except they are average, but because they never fucking TRY at life. They become complacent. You know what happens when an elk becomes complacent, they become food. Just so happens humans are at teh top of the food chain, so they end up on lithium and cheating on their spouse looking for fulfillment.

But they will never be full, they can't even stand themselves, how could someone else satisfy when they don't even know what they need is themselves?

Also, good luck relating to your kids when they are growing daily, and you remain static and complacent.

I'm done with this shit for now. You are championing a cause that 9 out of 10 married women in America HATE about their husbands. I can name no less than 5 women ON THIS BOARD that hate this attitude in their significant other.

Keep fighting the good fight man, mediocre 4 life!


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Bricknyce
Level 1

Join date: Nov 2002
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 5068

I personally am only for working as hard as I can and trying to progress in my career. I am not married and broke up with someone recently. So I'm for finding another special women or meeting women in general and having fun. I work out. I like to have fun. I have friends.

YES, when and if I have kids, my life will change A WHOLE LOT! At that point, it won't be all about ME! I'll have to worry about my wife, my kids--and probably my mother at that point who will need a lot of my help.

I USED TO be more of an intellectual, but not much anymore. To the point where people have told me, "You used to be so deep, and know about so many different subjects, and be so well versed on all sorts of stuff." I don't know if this is regression, although I have matured a great deal in the past few years--ESPECIALLY in the past year. Part of this was because of dating a 37 yr old woman.

But for now, I don't concern myself with so much aside from my career (money), women, health, and relatives (the last two go without saying for most people). I don't care to discuss deep shit, don't care for self help books, and don't care for QUOTES of giants in history that most of us can't relate to.

Ah, I became a shallow dude.

The funny thing is when I became LESS ambitious in the gym--going from recreational bodybuilder to "in shape" guy--I started meeting so many more women and made some more friends.

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The ShiZniT
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Join date: Feb 2010
Location: Illinois, USA
Posts: 27

This thread is mediocre, as is your book long posts.

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solidkhalid
Level 4

Join date: Mar 2010
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 1186

Since The Shit* decided to revive this thread I thought I'd mention some mediocre men in my life at the moment, as well as one who is not so mediocre.

Keep in mind these are friends I've had since junior high/high school, and they haven't changed much in their lives over the past 2 years.

1. 24. Works a regular 40 hour week. Good pay. Has basically no hobbies, but constantly has complaints about life, even though he is doing fine (i.e. good social life, steady girlfriend, great living conditions with his parents). Very skinny and wants to gain weight, although he won't train/eat for it. Doesn't try to change anything yet complains hoping something will give somehow.

2. 24. Works 40 hours with decent pay. Idea of a good time is playing video games. No hobbies/passions. Still a virgin. Horrible social life, no SO, lives in what is basically his parents closet. Doesn't make any sacrifices for change, yet he will still bitch about how bad things are for him. Severely overweight and wants to lose it, won't change diet or add exercise.

3. 25. EMT. Has an on/off relationship with a few different girls. Always up for a good party/drinking night, although they all end with him getting shitfaced. Supportive family/living conditions in an upscale neighborhood with his folks. Complains about his job, and his status, and physique. Passion in life includes "banging" girls left and right to the point where he got an STD. Doesn't do anything to better his situation.

There's more but I'll leave it at these three for now.

My non mediocre man of the month/year

29. Store manager. Seeking long-term relationship. Hobbies include science, sports, nature, cars, and training. Lives with a couple of roommates. Doesn't complain except for when the shit hits the fan i.e. "My car broke down". Was an athlete during High School and college. Always seeks to better himself/his knowledge.

*shiznit is basically slang for shit

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AlisaV
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Join date: Apr 2009
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Posts: 2655

Hm. Don't know if I count as "mediocre" or "striving to better myself" -- probably something in the middle -- but I wouldn't have anything to look forward to if I had no expectation of my life getting better over time. Some people can be content with a little but I seem to need a lot. I would like to matter -- not in a "do my bit for society" way but in the "world expert in X" way. I've faced fewer challenges than most -- it's not insane that I should want better outcomes than most.

I try not to look down on anybody at all, though.

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Rodimus Black
Level 1

Join date: Nov 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 5049

AlisaV wrote:
Hm. Don't know if I count as "mediocre" or "striving to better myself" -- probably something in the middle -- but I wouldn't have anything to look forward to if I had no expectation of my life getting better over time. Some people can be content with a little but I seem to need a lot. I would like to matter -- not in a "do my bit for society" way but in the "world expert in X" way. I've faced fewer challenges than most -- it's not insane that I should want better outcomes than most.

I try not to look down on anybody at all, though.


I don't judge much, either. I was pretty complacent for several years, personally. I trained, competed in MMA, did stuff to relieve the boredom of my life, but I wasn't progressing as a person at all. Just stayed on idle for close to 7 years. That changed this year, as I have a firm grip on what I want to do with my life, as well as what I want in general. Some of the people described earlier by Brick sound content in my opinion. The ones in Khalid's post sound a bit worse than mediocre, unfortunately. I broke up with a woman because she would do the same thing. Talk about working out and losing weight, however, she never did anything. When I talked her into walking with me, she bitched the entire time. I have no time for that any longer.

Alisa, I wouldn't consider you mediocre at all. Not by a long shot.

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apbt55
Level 3

Join date: Oct 2002
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 1472

_karma_ wrote:
Wow, you don't have very strong feelings on the subject, do you? ;-)

Ok, a few things....
1) I read your initial post as painting with a very broad brush the need for the mediocre and as glorifying their role in society.

I simply happen to disagree. I think the mediocre are the reason our society has devolved. Simply put, you painted with a broad brush and generalizations so to keep things nice and simple, so did I.

This is where it's possible you didn't explain yourself well and I, in turn, fell prey to the same oversimplification.

2)
You: Our society would devolve into savagery if it weren't for yes-men and the unambitious.

I don't think it's too hard to draw the conclusion that this statement says anyone who is not a yes-man or who is ambitious will cause our society to .... what..... devolve into savagery. So to answer your own question
And where did I say that all ambitious, highly intelligent and capable people are assholes.
Just read your first post on the matter. It's not verbatim but I see no other way of interpreting the whole "devolve into savagery" thing. Ambitious, independent thinkers MUST be assholes if society "devolved into savagery" were they to run the show.

Again, I simply disagree that in order to be ambitious/smart/et al one must also be a prick and a savage.

3)
You: Part of the reason we evolved and became a society is because we've always had leaders and followers - not just leaders.

I disagree. I think we had a hell of a lot of leaders and just a few folks who didn't give a shit and were along for the ride. Thinking of colonial life, pretty much every pioneer, homesteader, trapper, farmer, blacksmith, rancher, etc was damn ambitious, capable, an independent thinker - and though most were not highly educated, if they were not highly "intelligent" in their particular area of expertise - they died! Nowadays we have the exact opposite problem. Too many dregs sucking off the financial/providencial teat of the ambitious. Too many who are simply sheep.... wait, I love mutton so I won't insult sheep... they're fucking lemmings and leeches and are the reason for why we are where we are today - financially busted inside out, militarily flaccid, academically retarded, physically (as a nation) slovenly, morally (and I have a rather unconventional viewpoint here so bear with me) bankrupt. If we had more leaders, we'd have a better chance of righting the ship.

And before anyone comments - I hereby confess to the Queen of the Run On Sentence, am often guilty of mixing my metaphors and get quite tangential at times. Get over it. ;-)

4) One of your arguments FOR lazy SOBs is that you need servants. Cool. I dig having them too. However, I refuse to believe that we need as many servants as the market currently provides. I could derail this by getting into my views on the Welfare and Nanny State or immigration issues but I'll try to keep it tight. The only reason we have so many lazy/mediocre people is because they don't die for being so - instead, they are rewarded and continue to breed more like themselves. There will ALWAYS be enough lazy/mediocre people to pour your coffee and shine my shoes. I just think we need a hell of a lot fewer leeches and a hell of a lot more leaders.

5) You mentioned you lots of unambitious sweeties who have no desire to tear anyone down. Good for you! I don't have that experience. Every fatty I know takes a negative attitude in one way or another to the fact that I am no longer so. Just about every idiot I know defends their lack of intelligence (often revealing just how dumb they are) and finds ways to minimize the accomplishments of the intelligent. Just about every _________ (fill in the blank) tries to tear down anyone more ________ than they. Now, I do agree that quite often the lazy don't lie there awake at night contemplating how to destroy their "betters" (trying to keep language simple here). Often they're guilty of destroying them through their own lack of ambition, lack of independence and personal responsibility, lack of understanding of their place in life. Ignorance is NOT an excuse! Sure, they may be super sweet, caring, loving folks. Nothing wrong with that. They can be fabulous human beings who, nonetheless, are a drain on society rather than net-zero or a contributor.

As to your "ordinary shlub" bit.... see above. Not to mention it was a preponderance of these ordinary shlubs who are responsible for the debacle that has become the White House. Just because the colossal maroons in the WH are getting the press, doesn't exonerate the maroons who put him/them there.

6) The juxtaposed thing... If you're following me on the above points (whether you agree or not, just try to follow me :) ) then that will probably be clear. Of course we all have different talents and abilities. The question is whether or not you use those talents and abilities to 1) support yourself and contribute to society or 2) let them lie fallow and suck the life out of this country.

7) RE: Competent people bragging/boasting. There is a difference between modesty and false modesty. There is a difference between bragging and simply stating a truth.
EX: I am smart and attractive.
This is not bragging because it is true - based not on my personal opinion of myself (ask my husband, I have "ugly/fat" days like anyone else) but based on my scholastic and career achievements and the fact that I get paid for my looks (near what the Obamessiah would consider "rich", thank god for write offs).
EX: I am not the smartest person around, nor the most beautiful.
This is not false modesty because I am not being self-deprecating as a passive agressive attempt to elicit approval. I am simply aware of my relative shortcomings.

As for what telling the truth and being appropriately modest "does" to those who are "less so"? Fuck 'em. If they feel bad about themselves in relation to me, that's their problem and they need to see a shrink or read some self-help books and learn to quit being so codependent and to generate some genuine self-esteem. Maybe they *should* feel bad about themselves. Maybe that's this thing society's tried to train us through the PC bullshit is bad.... is really GOOD! It's called 'healthy shame'. It's what you're SUPPOSED to feel when you fuck up. If you're a fatty, you're SUPPOSED to feel healthy shame that you supersize everything and share an artery with the couch. It's UNHEALTHY. If you're living off unemployment and barely scraping by when you could be out working 2 minimum wage jobs (but you make more on unemployment (fucktards in Congress) - you SHOULD feel healthy shame when I dance around ecstatically in my new Louboutins that cost more than your fucking rent. I EARNED my fucking money. Should I feel bad because some shlub would rather live off the public dole?

And, on a final note, it sounds like we probably have similar views politically. Cool! We may just have very different views on the *necessity* of shlubs and the terrible evil that would occur if (remember that whole "devolving into savagery" thing?) if more folks were ambitious, etc.

Cheers!


Here is a broad brush for you, I don't mean this offensively. But wow you are a female and from Colorado, a place many I know paint as a liberal progressives wet dream, and you have a astute and pragmatic view of the current problems facing this country and the world.

If I didn't marry an absolutely gorgeous woman whom I love, with basically the same view and understanding of our world I think I would be obsessed.

Props to you good luck with all your endeavors in this life.

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apbt55
Level 3

Join date: Oct 2002
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 1472

AHA wrote:
On eugenics: there are two varieties of it. Negative eugenics means culling whoever is considered weak by force. Positive eugenics means encouraging those considered strong to breed more, by eg giving them increased government benefits or somesuch.

Eugenics can also happen without central oversight. There is a theory for instance that a eugenic process took place spontaneously in Britain in the 19th century as society's less capable elements were culled through harsh working conditions lack of safety nets, while more successful segments of the population were very fecund for some reason. I am unable to find the source material for this at the current moment, however.

The opposite of eugenics is dysgenics. See for instance the movie Idiocracy.


Or present day America, moving everyday closer to the land of idiocracy.


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apbt55
Level 3

Join date: Oct 2002
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 1472

AlisaV wrote:
Hm. Don't know if I count as "mediocre" or "striving to better myself" -- probably something in the middle -- but I wouldn't have anything to look forward to if I had no expectation of my life getting better over time. Some people can be content with a little but I seem to need a lot. I would like to matter -- not in a "do my bit for society" way but in the "world expert in X" way. I've faced fewer challenges than most -- it's not insane that I should want better outcomes than most.

I try not to look down on anybody at all, though.


Maybe I am regressive then, I studied and worked in biosciences to a point where I am subject matter expert for immunoassays when dealing with regulatory agencies for the largest vaccine producer in the world. I have competed and fought professionally in mma, But now my focus has changed, recently purchased some land, starting a small organic beef farm with the hopes to retire to it early and pass on some the actual science knowledge to my children, and spend as much time with my family as possible.

I have a 5yr old and 3 yr old daughter and just had a son in September. My wife was a auditor with PWC and decided she would rather stay home with the children.

So according to the idea of mediocrity, are we regressing. No longer pursuing greatness in this idiosyncratic world, but now pursuing independence, self sustainability and control over our lives. As well as the only thing we can really give to our children our time and our lives.

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wilks19
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Join date: May 2011
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Posts: 45

old forum but wanted to put my opinion in on the topic of eugenics... it would not matter in todays day and age if we did this genes arent expressed through simply my parents were this so i am this. the enviroment created for you while in the womb via chemical bombardment from food, medicine ect will lead to just as many defects in high class as it would in low class.

same wit the ambition and growth of a child in the early stages of life if they are told they cant, ignored and not feed well, eventually those lessons will become so engrained in the kid it will become extremly hard for them as an adult to accept any other reality. didnt read about half the post so my bad if someone already said this

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claybear
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Join date: Mar 2011
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 40

I just wanted to say I fucking love T-Nation for combining forums that discuss topics like this and also talk about anything and everything training related

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streamline
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Join date: Jan 2008
Location: British Columbia, CAN
Posts: 2489

So that's why I'm still single. I thought I had an odour problem, that's a relief!

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killerDIRK
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Join date: Apr 2011
Location: California, USA
Posts: 655

For me mediocrity ended when I found this site, which lead me to Stormthebeach's "death to fitness" which lead on to Jamie Lewis's CHaOS and Pain ranting which opened my eyes to the fact that I have not been living up to my potential. I have read more, studied more, become much more consistent and trained harder over the last four years than in the previous 7. I have moved 2 degrees beyond mediocre because of this.

Fuck Mediocrity- Sprint Kill Eat and lift something (or someone) HEAVY : )

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orion
Level 5

Join date: Jun 2005
Location: Austria
Posts: 24413

Alright, I have wrestled with temptation long enough:

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solidkhalid
Level 4

Join date: Mar 2010
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 1186

Guy looks like a lamer, not gonna watch the clip.

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al1492
Level 1

Join date: Apr 2009
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 489

TC wrote:
Women want mediocre men, and men are working hard to become as mediocre as possible.?Margaret Mead


If that were true I'd be getting laid like Wilt Chamberlain

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orion
Level 5

Join date: Jun 2005
Location: Austria
Posts: 24413

al1492 wrote:
TC wrote:
Women want mediocre men, and men are working hard to become as mediocre as possible.?Margaret Mead


If that were true I'd be getting laid like Wilt Chamberlain


I think he meant "want" more in the sense of a nice comfy sweater or a neutered dog that does not shit on the carpet.

Not "want" in the omgomgIknowyouareruiningmyvajayjaybutdontfuckingstopohlordJesuswhaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.,,, kind of way.

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SKELAC
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Join date: Nov 2011
Location: Spain
Posts: 790

What about us who strive to be worse than average?

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Voluminous
Level 3

Join date: Feb 2011
Location: England
Posts: 405

Hmm an excellent thread.

Maybe tailed off at the end.

Maybe I should read T-Nation more.

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gfjeepguy
Level

Join date: Oct 2010
Location:
Posts: 2

[quote]orion wrote:
Alright, I have wrestled with temptation long enough:



Watched the clip, it's more a comedy video in terms of intent.

The sad part is that where I live there are way too many folks who think like the attitudes expressed in the video: that everyone
should be equal and settle for mediocrity and we're gonna fuck you over if you try to stand for anything better than the mediocre norm.

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IronClaws
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Join date: Nov 2011
Location: Nova scotia, CAN
Posts: 235

Be that as it may I wouldn't put too much stock in what Margaret Mead has to say. She's well known for being a joke to anyone who seriously studies anthropology in an objective way.

yeah the samoans didn't know violence, yeah societies existed where traditional gender roles were reversed, she made this giant habit of lying and over-exaggerating differences between human cultures. They knew violence with clubs and stoning people to death, the society with gender role reversal was based on men wearing make-up, that they only wore after they had achieved the status of men, which was probably the makeup you could only wear after doing X to become a man, like probably killing a man, or putting your hand in an ants nest.

On the same hand, whatever she means by mediocre is questionable. The more fertile women are the more they prefer certain signs of fertility in men, like masculine qualities, deep voice, square chin, even how cocky/condescending they act to their peers.

Mead was a dumb bitch and little samoan girls made a game out of feeding her bullshit because she was too dense to think that learning a local language might pay off when studying a culture.

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dbsmith
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Join date: Aug 2012
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 101

Most people by definition are average understanding that average is a relative concept. It in it's most basic form requires some ability to assess and measure an outcome and then compare to a standard. The standard being set by everyone else's performance. If everyone was exceptional then no one would really be exceptional as the standard to which everyone is compared would have been elevated.

Economics has been touched on briefly here as well. The world has a finite amount of wealth (or in it's most basic form resources) to divide amongst every living person. The only way for their to be "wealth" is for there to be poverty. For example, if the world only had 10 people and each person had $1 the only way for someone to be "wealthy" (i.e. have more than anyone else) is for that person to have $2 which of course means someone has $0. As time goes on we seem to be having the problem that 1 person has $9 out of the $10.

For Bill Gates to have billions, many other people in the economy must have very little. This is the fundamental problem of concentrating wealth. Eventually if allowed to play out uncorrected all the wealth concentrates to such a degree that there's isn't enough wealth for the majority of people to support the wealthy - if everyone is impoverished and no one has money to buy a Mercedes then Mercedes isn't going to sell cars and if they don't sell cars they make no money and if they don't make money they are no longer wealthy. Now of course this is theoretical and there are corrections but....

What goes hand in hand with this concept is mediocrity or being average. If everyone was exceptional then no one would be exceptional. If everyone was wildly successful than no one would be wildly successful. If everyone has a lot of money then no one would be "wealthy" (after all wealth is not how many dollars you have - it's how much those dollars are "worth" relative to everyone else's dollars). So this system needs average people flipping burgers in it. Furthermore, this system NEEDS A LOT of "mediocre people" (I'll say average) in it because menial jobs are the most common form of employment.

So my argument....there needs to be mediocrity in society and most people need to be average for our world to work the way it does. I make no comment about being a good or bad person or wanting more from life or wanting to improve your life. My argument can only be interpreted to pertain to the population as a whole and there are always individual exceptions.

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