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Yeah, Another Strap Thread
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xjusticex2013x
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Join date: Jan 2010
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Over the past couple months, I've been having some complications regarding my sumo deadlift. In March I pulled 540 for six doubles with straps (the first double was so fast that in retrospect I could probably have had 600 on the spot that day), and that was my highest ever performance. I incorporated huge amounts of deadlift volume and it went through the roof as a result.

Some time after that I decided to get more strapless work in, and instantly it was like all of my progress over those months vanished into thin air; I could barely pull 515 on my first session strictly sans straps. Since then I started Sheiko to focus on bringing my strapless pull up, but for some reason my hook grip (the grip I use) has been tearing my thumbs and hands up to a degree that I never had to deal with before; I was struggling to pull 425 for five triples because of my goddamn hands.

All of my sumo pulling is strictly deadstop, and the straps don't place me at a higher up stroke than w/ straps. Why the discrepancy? I saw a video of Chris Duffin pulling (many of you undoubtedly have as well by now), and he lifts 715 without straps, then puts some on, and then completely smokes 805. I wonder if straps still have a place in my deadlifting at this point.

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StrengthDawg
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Dude, you have to sprinkle the Creatine in those straps to get any carry over with them...

Seriously though, it simply sounds like you've been over using the straps and your grip has gone to shit, from what you wrote. Ditch the straps and get back in the game. Don't worry about Chris Duffin, whoever that is... He obviously has a grip strength disparity too since he can pull more with straps.

In my experience, people that train with straps whether it's all the time or just for the sets near a max weight will have a higher strapped pull because look at all the muscles required to make the pull. They have a much higher capacity for growth than the muscles in the forearms that work for grip.

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TB284
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Proprioceptive feedback. Your grip is such a weak link that your body essentially shuts down other motor units that could effectively produce enough force to lift the weight if your hands could carry it.

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xjusticex2013x
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TB284 wrote:
Proprioceptive feedback. Your grip is such a weak link that your body essentially shuts down other motor units that could effectively produce enough force to lift the weight if your hands could carry it.


That's what I was thinking. What seems to seriously be weakening my grip is all of these hand tears...if it wasn't for those I think that my grip may be in the ballpark (the straps make it so that I don't have to worry about my thumbs and whatnot), considering I've pulled pretty well without straps in the past.

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Rschwitalski
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Join date: Mar 2012
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515 is pretty strong for hook grip. Have you tried alternating? Unless you have ungodly huge hands, hook grip is going to limit you. I'm actually stronger alternating my grip, than using straps. Try it out.

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BlueCollarTr8n
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Join date: Jul 2008
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I have used a 'hook grip' for the last 4 years. Taping my thumb and fingers makes a huge difference. Keeping my calluses shaved down helps too.

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TB284
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xjusticex2013x wrote:
That's what I was thinking. What seems to seriously be weakening my grip is all of these hand tears...if it wasn't for those I think that my grip may be in the ballpark (the straps make it so that I don't have to worry about my thumbs and whatnot), considering I've pulled pretty well without straps in the past.


I've never had to deal with my hands being torn up like that, but I would figure there's got to be a response to the pain, even if your actual grip strength is in check. As BlueCollar said, work on your calluses if you're not already, and look into moisturizer or something to work on the skin of your hands in general. I can't imagine its any fun lifting that way.

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Dr J
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TB284 wrote:
Proprioceptive feedback. Your grip is such a weak link that your body essentially shuts down other motor units that could effectively produce enough force to lift the weight if your hands could carry it.



BINGO!! I normally train with an Oakie deadlift bar that has such good gnurling that it almost hurts. On the rare occasion that I deadlift at a different gym with fatter bars and worn gnurling, there is a noticeable discrepancy in my numbers.

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OmniStyx
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Fat bar/Gripz work and double overhand works translates to hook grip strength pretty well for me. In terms of ripping calluses, I used to have a big problem with blisters/calluses forming and tearing using hook grip. My recommendation is to use plenty of chalk, take care of your calluses, and, most importantly, grip the hell out of the bar when you're pulling. The harder you hold on to it the less it will slip, meaning less tearing.

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T3hPwnisher
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The only time I pull deadlifts without straps is in meets, and I've never run into this issue, to include a 600lb pull in competition at the 181 weight class. You haven't mentioned any grip work from what I can see, and that's ultimately the problem.

Using straps doesn't excuse you from grip training. If anything, it means you need to double your efforts on it. I use a captains of crush grippers and focus on timed holds with them to simulate what you will need to do in a deadlift. If you can work up to the #2, you'll be in a good place.

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mkral55
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T3hPwnisher wrote:
The only time I pull deadlifts without straps is in meets, and I've never run into this issue, to include a 600lb pull in competition at the 181 weight class. You haven't mentioned any grip work from what I can see, and that's ultimately the problem.

Using straps doesn't excuse you from grip training. If anything, it means you need to double your efforts on it. I use a captains of crush grippers and focus on timed holds with them to simulate what you will need to do in a deadlift. If you can work up to the #2, you'll be in a good place.


x2 on this. I used to have a shitty grip, so I worked on it separately. Also x2 on timed holds instead of reps.

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sexyxe
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T3hPwnisher wrote:
The only time I pull deadlifts without straps is in meets, and I've never run into this issue, to include a 600lb pull in competition at the 181 weight class. You haven't mentioned any grip work from what I can see, and that's ultimately the problem.

Using straps doesn't excuse you from grip training. If anything, it means you need to double your efforts on it. I use a captains of crush grippers and focus on timed holds with them to simulate what you will need to do in a deadlift. If you can work up to the #2, you'll be in a good place.


Interesting. You use straps... then do supplementary work to make up for your (potential) lack of grip. How would you go training w/o straps and ditching the CoC?

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T3hPwnisher
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sexyxe wrote:
T3hPwnisher wrote:
The only time I pull deadlifts without straps is in meets, and I've never run into this issue, to include a 600lb pull in competition at the 181 weight class. You haven't mentioned any grip work from what I can see, and that's ultimately the problem.

Using straps doesn't excuse you from grip training. If anything, it means you need to double your efforts on it. I use a captains of crush grippers and focus on timed holds with them to simulate what you will need to do in a deadlift. If you can work up to the #2, you'll be in a good place.


Interesting. You use straps... then do supplementary work to make up for your (potential) lack of grip. How would you go training w/o straps and ditching the CoC?


I wouldn't. I don't think a trainee should pull without straps in training, nor should they not train their grip.

The way I see it, when I train the deadlift, I am training myself to pull a heavier deadlift, which necessitates training the muscles that are doing the lifting in the movement. Grip, as valuable as it is in not dropping the bar, isn't what is moving the weight. By using straps in training, I remove grip for the equation and can focus purely on making the muscles involved stronger. After that, I can just train the grip in isolation and have it match my deadlift.

This has worked way better for me than trying to deadlift without straps.

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Chicksan
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Join date: Dec 2011
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T3hPwnisher wrote:
sexyxe wrote:
T3hPwnisher wrote:
The only time I pull deadlifts without straps is in meets, and I've never run into this issue, to include a 600lb pull in competition at the 181 weight class. You haven't mentioned any grip work from what I can see, and that's ultimately the problem.

Using straps doesn't excuse you from grip training. If anything, it means you need to double your efforts on it. I use a captains of crush grippers and focus on timed holds with them to simulate what you will need to do in a deadlift. If you can work up to the #2, you'll be in a good place.


Interesting. You use straps... then do supplementary work to make up for your (potential) lack of grip. How would you go training w/o straps and ditching the CoC?


I wouldn't. I don't think a trainee should pull without straps in training, nor should they not train their grip.

The way I see it, when I train the deadlift, I am training myself to pull a heavier deadlift, which necessitates training the muscles that are doing the lifting in the movement. Grip, as valuable as it is in not dropping the bar, isn't what is moving the weight. By using straps in training, I remove grip for the equation and can focus purely on making the muscles involved stronger. After that, I can just train the grip in isolation and have it match my deadlift.

This has worked way better for me than trying to deadlift without straps.


If I remember correctly, Steve Goggins made some comments similar to this in an Elitefts video he made a few months back. He was a believer in using straps for deadlifting aswell.


On a side note, 600@181 is a damn impressive pull

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PHGN
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Join date: Apr 2004
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T3hPwnisher wrote:
The only time I pull deadlifts without straps is in meets, and I've never run into this issue, to include a 600lb pull in competition at the 181 weight class. You haven't mentioned any grip work from what I can see, and that's ultimately the problem.

Using straps doesn't excuse you from grip training. If anything, it means you need to double your efforts on it. I use a captains of crush grippers and focus on timed holds with them to simulate what you will need to do in a deadlift. If you can work up to the #2, you'll be in a good place.


Makes a lot of sense, I think I will try your approach to DL training for a while. Do you use straps to also reduce the chance of tearing a bicep from training mixed grip all the time ?

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xjusticex2013x
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T3hPwnisher wrote:
sexyxe wrote:
T3hPwnisher wrote:
The only time I pull deadlifts without straps is in meets, and I've never run into this issue, to include a 600lb pull in competition at the 181 weight class. You haven't mentioned any grip work from what I can see, and that's ultimately the problem.

Using straps doesn't excuse you from grip training. If anything, it means you need to double your efforts on it. I use a captains of crush grippers and focus on timed holds with them to simulate what you will need to do in a deadlift. If you can work up to the #2, you'll be in a good place.


Interesting. You use straps... then do supplementary work to make up for your (potential) lack of grip. How would you go training w/o straps and ditching the CoC?


I wouldn't. I don't think a trainee should pull without straps in training, nor should they not train their grip.

The way I see it, when I train the deadlift, I am training myself to pull a heavier deadlift, which necessitates training the muscles that are doing the lifting in the movement. Grip, as valuable as it is in not dropping the bar, isn't what is moving the weight. By using straps in training, I remove grip for the equation and can focus purely on making the muscles involved stronger. After that, I can just train the grip in isolation and have it match my deadlift.

This has worked way better for me than trying to deadlift without straps.


Alright, this thread is yo house now son lolz.

Question: When you go from straps to mixed for a meet, do you not feel any sort of disparity between the two styles at all? I'm not coming from the standpoint of grip strength; I ask because I used mixed grip today and it felt like it had a somewhat different groove to it as opposed to DOH.

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T3hPwnisher
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Chicksan wrote:
T3hPwnisher wrote:
sexyxe wrote:
T3hPwnisher wrote:
The only time I pull deadlifts without straps is in meets, and I've never run into this issue, to include a 600lb pull in competition at the 181 weight class. You haven't mentioned any grip work from what I can see, and that's ultimately the problem.

Using straps doesn't excuse you from grip training. If anything, it means you need to double your efforts on it. I use a captains of crush grippers and focus on timed holds with them to simulate what you will need to do in a deadlift. If you can work up to the #2, you'll be in a good place.


Interesting. You use straps... then do supplementary work to make up for your (potential) lack of grip. How would you go training w/o straps and ditching the CoC?


I wouldn't. I don't think a trainee should pull without straps in training, nor should they not train their grip.

The way I see it, when I train the deadlift, I am training myself to pull a heavier deadlift, which necessitates training the muscles that are doing the lifting in the movement. Grip, as valuable as it is in not dropping the bar, isn't what is moving the weight. By using straps in training, I remove grip for the equation and can focus purely on making the muscles involved stronger. After that, I can just train the grip in isolation and have it match my deadlift.

This has worked way better for me than trying to deadlift without straps.


If I remember correctly, Steve Goggins made some comments similar to this in an Elitefts video he made a few months back. He was a believer in using straps for deadlifting aswell.


On a side note, 600@181 is a damn impressive pull



Thanks man, much appreciated it.

I figured it was good enough for strongman, and those guys have some crazy pulls, haha.

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T3hPwnisher
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xjusticex2013x wrote:
T3hPwnisher wrote:
sexyxe wrote:
T3hPwnisher wrote:
The only time I pull deadlifts without straps is in meets, and I've never run into this issue, to include a 600lb pull in competition at the 181 weight class. You haven't mentioned any grip work from what I can see, and that's ultimately the problem.

Using straps doesn't excuse you from grip training. If anything, it means you need to double your efforts on it. I use a captains of crush grippers and focus on timed holds with them to simulate what you will need to do in a deadlift. If you can work up to the #2, you'll be in a good place.


Interesting. You use straps... then do supplementary work to make up for your (potential) lack of grip. How would you go training w/o straps and ditching the CoC?


I wouldn't. I don't think a trainee should pull without straps in training, nor should they not train their grip.

The way I see it, when I train the deadlift, I am training myself to pull a heavier deadlift, which necessitates training the muscles that are doing the lifting in the movement. Grip, as valuable as it is in not dropping the bar, isn't what is moving the weight. By using straps in training, I remove grip for the equation and can focus purely on making the muscles involved stronger. After that, I can just train the grip in isolation and have it match my deadlift.

This has worked way better for me than trying to deadlift without straps.


Alright, this thread is yo house now son lolz.

Question: When you go from straps to mixed for a meet, do you not feel any sort of disparity between the two styles at all? I'm not coming from the standpoint of grip strength; I ask because I used mixed grip today and it felt like it had a somewhat different groove to it as opposed to DOH.


I don't notice any difference. I pull DOH with straps in training and mix in meets. At a meet, my adrenaline is usually high enough that little things like that don't distract me, and everything else remains the same from my training. I even still set up like I have straps, in that I set my grip first and then set up to pull, rather than setting up to pull and setting the grip.

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T3hPwnisher
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PHGN wrote:
T3hPwnisher wrote:
The only time I pull deadlifts without straps is in meets, and I've never run into this issue, to include a 600lb pull in competition at the 181 weight class. You haven't mentioned any grip work from what I can see, and that's ultimately the problem.

Using straps doesn't excuse you from grip training. If anything, it means you need to double your efforts on it. I use a captains of crush grippers and focus on timed holds with them to simulate what you will need to do in a deadlift. If you can work up to the #2, you'll be in a good place.


Makes a lot of sense, I think I will try your approach to DL training for a while. Do you use straps to also reduce the chance of tearing a bicep from training mixed grip all the time ?



I haven't ever torn a bicep, so I couldn't really say if I'm reducing my chances, haha. I just like being able to pull double overhand in training.

I actually shot a video explaining my deadlift style

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BacktotheBar
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Join date: Jul 2013
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[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]PHGN wrote:
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
The only time I pull deadlifts without straps is in meets, and I've never run into this issue, to include a 600lb pull in competition at the 181 weight class. You haven't mentioned any grip work from what I can see, and that's ultimately the problem.

Using straps doesn't excuse you from grip training. If anything, it means you need to double your efforts on it. I use a captains of crush grippers and focus on timed holds with them to simulate what you will need to do in a deadlift. If you can work up to the #2, you'll be in a good place.[/quote]

Makes a lot of sense, I think I will try your approach to DL training for a while. Do you use straps to also reduce the chance of tearing a bicep from training mixed grip all the time ?[/quote]


I haven't ever torn a bicep, so I couldn't really say if I'm reducing my chances, haha. I just like being able to pull double overhand in training.

I actually shot a video explaining my deadlift style

Great vid, usually pull sumo best, but will try the extra narrow stance next time I pull conventional. Don't think I go quite as wide as you show in the video (though you may be doing it for emphasis.) Excellent movement analysis.

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T3hPwnisher
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BacktotheBar wrote:


Great vid, usually pull sumo best, but will try the extra narrow stance next time I pull conventional. Don't think I go quite as wide as you show in the video (though you may be doing it for emphasis.) Excellent movement analysis.



Yeah, I actually have no idea how to pull sumo, haha. I've never done it before, so the video just uses it as a demonstration. Glad you enjoyed it.

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Fletch1986
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Join date: Aug 2007
Posts: 4872

I've found a lot of the same things out as in your video. I've started using straps for for my ME and RE work on deadlift variations. Rows, chins, presses, and other random accessories seem to do the trick for me. My grip had been naturally strong so I just haven't worried too much about it. I've liked using the straps because when I don't use them on a movement as heavy as deads, my body thinks I'm about to die or something the next morning. Maybe because there's so many nerves in the hand.

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StormTheBeach
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Personally, I never use straps unless it is a horrible DL variation (snatch grip, heavy RDL's, high rack pulls) and have never had an issue with my grip in a meet. Actually, having a strong grip is the only thing that has been consistent with my training over the years.

I would strongly suggest just pushing through this. Your hands will get stronger in time. Also, if you don't do it already, add in some grip work to your training.

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bdocksaints75
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Join date: May 2012
Posts: 1749

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]PHGN wrote:
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
The only time I pull deadlifts without straps is in meets, and I've never run into this issue, to include a 600lb pull in competition at the 181 weight class. You haven't mentioned any grip work from what I can see, and that's ultimately the problem.

Using straps doesn't excuse you from grip training. If anything, it means you need to double your efforts on it. I use a captains of crush grippers and focus on timed holds with them to simulate what you will need to do in a deadlift. If you can work up to the #2, you'll be in a good place.[/quote]

Makes a lot of sense, I think I will try your approach to DL training for a while. Do you use straps to also reduce the chance of tearing a bicep from training mixed grip all the time ?[/quote]


I haven't ever torn a bicep, so I couldn't really say if I'm reducing my chances, haha. I just like being able to pull double overhand in training.

I actually shot a video explaining my deadlift style


I just watched this and some of your other videos your strong as hell. Love the rants BTW.

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T3hPwnisher
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bdocksaints75 wrote:

I just watched this and some of your other videos your strong as hell. Love the rants BTW.



Thanks man, glad you enjoyed it. If you wanna see/read more of my thoughts, I actually have a blog.

mythicalstrength.blogspot.com/

I don't make any money off of it or anything, I just use it to force me to think/write about lifting every week. It's like my own form of therapy, haha.

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