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Join date: Oct 2007
Posts: 134

Mr Bear's Westside Training thread has been a huge success so I thought it might be a good idea to start a Westside for Skinny Bastards Thread.

There have been a number of threads popping up around the Strength Sports section regarding this type of training. I thought it might be a good idea to have one central thread where WSFSB novices and veterans can help each other out, post PRs, training logs, links and etc.

Here are some links to get the ball rolling...

Joe Defranco's site

www.defrancostraining.com/

WSFSB 1

http://www.T-Nation.com/...=459321&cr=

WSFSB 2

http://www.T-Nation.com/...=667308&cr=

WSFSB 3

http://www.elitefts.com/...ws4sb/WS4SB.pdf

Hopefully we can get a few people on board and make this thread a success.

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De sleeplijn
Level

Join date: Jun 2006
Posts: 511

I like the idea. Since WSFSB 3 came out there have been threads popping up every couple of days. It would be good to have the many questions thrown into one thread.

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Level

Join date: Oct 2007
Posts: 134

A few of Defranco's youtube videos...

Full Squats



On in-season training...



Reverse Band Bench



Chain Push Ups



Weighted 50 inch box jump



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geekboy
Level 10

Join date: Feb 2005
Posts: 391

Johnny, thanks for starting the thread. I was going to post my log on Bear's thread but this is just as good.

10/Oct - LBDE

Box jumps:

30" x 5, rest 1min
32" x 3, rest 1min
34" x 3, rest 1min
36" x 2, rest 1min
38" x 2 - this is getting hard... rest 1min
40" x 2 - really hard, taking deep breaths before attempts
41" x 1 - missed. Right shin hit box. Ouch. rest 1min.
41" x 2 - Again taking deep breaths before attempts. Got it at last (This is a new PR for box jumps)

(Note: There wasn't any proper jump box in my gym. My "stack" is a wood box + 7 20kg plates + foot platforms + rubber mat. The strange looking stack and my jump attempts (esp. the failed attempt) attracted a few stares :p)

(Note 2: I am thinking about switching my jump exercise since I have maxed out the box jumps. Please fill in if you have any suggestions.)

DB Reverse lunges from foot platform
3 x 8 / side @ 2x22kg DBs rest 1min

Alternate set with

Iron woody bands pull-thru (Blue band) 3 x 12 rest 1min

- For rev. lunges, it was burning towards the last few reps of the second leg

- For pull-thru, locking-out was pretty hard towards the last few reps on every set

Abs circuit with cables:
High-low Cable woodchops 3x12/side @ 36kg
Reverse side-bends 3x12/side @ 66kg
Standing cable crunches 3x12 @ 66kg Rest 1min

- Again the last circuit was pretty hard

This is it for today. Pretty happy with the box jumps' new PR.

Geekboy

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Level

Join date: Oct 2007
Posts: 134

geekboy wrote:
Johnny, thanks for starting the thread. I was going to post my log on Bear's thread but this is just as good.

10/Oct - LBDE

Box jumps:

30" x 5, rest 1min
32" x 3, rest 1min
34" x 3, rest 1min
36" x 2, rest 1min
38" x 2 - this is getting hard... rest 1min
40" x 2 - really hard, taking deep breaths before attempts
41" x 1 - missed. Right shin hit box. Ouch. rest 1min.
41" x 2 - Again taking deep breaths before attempts. Got it at last (This is a new PR for box jumps)

(Note: There wasn't any proper jump box in my gym. My "stack" is a wood box + 7 20kg plates + foot platforms + rubber mat. The strange looking stack and my jump attempts (esp. the failed attempt) attracted a few stares :p)

(Note 2: I am thinking about switching my jump exercise since I have maxed out the box jumps. Please fill in if you have any suggestions.)

DB Reverse lunges from foot platform
3 x 8 / side @ 2x22kg DBs rest 1min

Alternate set with

Iron woody bands pull-thru (Blue band) 3 x 12 rest 1min

- For rev. lunges, it was burning towards the last few reps of the second leg

- For pull-thru, locking-out was pretty hard towards the last few reps on every set

Abs circuit with cables:
High-low Cable woodchops 3x12/side @ 36kg
Reverse side-bends 3x12/side @ 66kg
Standing cable crunches 3x12 @ 66kg Rest 1min

- Again the last circuit was pretty hard

This is it for today. Pretty happy with the box jumps' new PR.

Geekboy


Good to have you on board there Geekboy. I have 3 operations in the past 2 years (1 knee, 1 adductor and 1 shoulder) so I'm yet to get into the jump training post op. I'm probably a month off it so I'm itching to get into it.

When I was doing plymotrics I used to find the broad jump a good alternative and pretty easy to do because you only need room. No equipment is necessary.

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Join date: Oct 2007
Posts: 134

10/10/07: First ME Lower Body in the Aussie Rules Football off season. I haven't gone heavy (by my standards) since the adductor op last Christmas. Needless to say it has left me with the strength of a school girl.




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geekboy
Level 10

Join date: Feb 2005
Posts: 391

Johnny Drama wrote:
Good to have you on board there Geekboy. I have 3 operations in the past 2 years (1 knee, 1 adductor and 1 shoulder) so I'm yet to get into the jump training post op. I'm probably a month off it so I'm itching to get into it.

When I was doing plymotrics I used to find the broad jump a good alternative and pretty easy to do because you only need room. No equipment is necessary.


Johnny, good luck to your re-heb. Thanks for your suggestion but room in fact is a problem for me because I train at a busy bodybuilding gym. Not only there is not much room but people are going to cut into the path all the time because they don't know what I am doing.

( I am the only one who does jump training in this gym; As said, even my not-so-impressive box jumps attracted some people's attention. I think not because it is good, rather they have not seen people doing it.)

At the moment I am thinking about switching to box squat to box jumps or good old weighted squat jumps.

Geekboy

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Nate Dogg
Level 5

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6973

I perform various jumping exercises with my max-effort lift on lower body day. For example, I'll perform a set of box squats followed by box jumps or vertical jumps, broad jumps, squat jumps, etc. for 2-3 reps and keep alternating sets until I hit my PR in my main lift for that day.

I like the idea of this thread, but I don't like the idea of using it to post your training log. This thing will be too hard to keep track of if you have to sift through other people's training logs. I'd set up your training log separately or put it in your blog. Just my opinion. ;)

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geekboy
Level 10

Join date: Feb 2005
Posts: 391

Nate Dogg wrote:
I perform various jumping exercises with my max-effort lift on lower body day. For example, I'll perform a set of box squats followed by box jumps or vertical jumps, broad jumps, squat jumps, etc. for 2-3 reps and keep alternating sets until I hit my PR in my main lift for that day.


I personally found it hard to do good jumps and heavy squats together. I believe you are doing the jumps to stimulate the body to hit your squat/DL PR, rather than hitting a jump PR?


I like the idea of this thread, but I don't like the idea of using it to post your training log. This thing will be too hard to keep track of if you have to sift through other people's training logs. I'd set up your training log separately or put it in your blog. Just my opinion. ;)


Thanks Nate, I have been keeping my own training log. I start posting it here just to exchange some ideas with other WSSB trainees --- As your reply and Johnny's regards to jump training.

Geekboy

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Nate Dogg
Level 5

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6973

geekboy wrote:
I personally found it hard to do good jumps and heavy squats together. I believe you are doing the jumps to stimulate the body to hit your squat/DL PR, rather than hitting a jump PR?


You got it!

Some days I mix it up and perform dynamic jumping exercises trying to hit new PR's. It just depends on how I'm feeling and what I want to get out of my training.

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remixpaul
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Join date: Jan 2007
Posts: 63

hey guys, from monday (10/15/07) to when it starts snowing (cause i will be doing all the running outside and from the winter until its warm outside i will be performing the off season template from ws4sb part 3 and the srping will be doing the strenght and speed template like i was doing in the fall)

i will try out the strenght and speed template for WS4SB Part 3, it says that i do conditioning on tuesdays and saturdays .. but my question is should i run in the morning like wake up around say 7-8am and run then come home and eat breakfast or eat breakfast wait like 45min then do my condition on tuesday and saturday?

btw my conditioning will involve up hill running in the mountains and doing the stairs at the local stadium in my town .. my other question is how long should i do my conditioning for? 45min? 60min? or even 90min? what do u guys think?

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Join date: Oct 2007
Posts: 134

geekboy wrote:
Johnny Drama wrote:
Good to have you on board there Geekboy. I have 3 operations in the past 2 years (1 knee, 1 adductor and 1 shoulder) so I'm yet to get into the jump training post op. I'm probably a month off it so I'm itching to get into it.

When I was doing plymotrics I used to find the broad jump a good alternative and pretty easy to do because you only need room. No equipment is necessary.

Johnny, good luck to your re-heb. Thanks for your suggestion but room in fact is a problem for me because I train at a busy bodybuilding gym. Not only there is not much room but people are going to cut into the path all the time because they don't know what I am doing.

( I am the only one who does jump training in this gym; As said, even my not-so-impressive box jumps attracted some people's attention. I think not because it is good, rather they have not seen people doing it.)

At the moment I am thinking about switching to box squat to box jumps or good old weighted squat jumps.

Geekboy


I'm lucky in the fact that I train at my shed at home with a few mates. We've got room to broad jump, walking lunge, and sled drag, tyre flip and etc in the back yard.

When I first started WSFSB 1 in 2004 (pre injuries) I did it in a commercial gym and I can understand how hard it is to find the room/equipment you need. A few guys I know actually head out to the car park when they are getting into the jump training.

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Nate Dogg wrote:
I perform various jumping exercises with my max-effort lift on lower body day. For example, I'll perform a set of box squats followed by box jumps or vertical jumps, broad jumps, squat jumps, etc. for 2-3 reps and keep alternating sets until I hit my PR in my main lift for that day.

I like the idea of this thread, but I don't like the idea of using it to post your training log. This thing will be too hard to keep track of if you have to sift through other people's training logs. I'd set up your training log separately or put it in your blog. Just my opinion. ;)


Good call actually. The training logs do make it a bit hard to read. We would probably be better served by just throwing in questions, tips, and general talking shop.

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remixpaul wrote:
hey guys, from monday (10/15/07) to when it starts snowing (cause i will be doing all the running outside and from the winter until its warm outside i will be performing the off season template from ws4sb part 3 and the srping will be doing the strenght and speed template like i was doing in the fall)

i will try out the strenght and speed template for WS4SB Part 3, it says that i do conditioning on tuesdays and saturdays .. but my question is should i run in the morning like wake up around say 7-8am and run then come home and eat breakfast or eat breakfast wait like 45min then do my condition on tuesday and saturday?

btw my conditioning will involve up hill running in the mountains and doing the stairs at the local stadium in my town .. my other question is how long should i do my conditioning for? 45min? 60min? or even 90min? what do u guys think?


I used to do a bit of track running in the mornings. We used to meet at 6am and go through our paces. I personally hated eating breakfast before running 400's. Quite often I would see it again during the session so I opted to do it on the empty stomach which isn't the best but it worked well for me. I'd often put down an energy drink, a piece of fruit or something easy to digest before hand and that was never a problem.

As with most things in this program, try both strategies and see what works best for you.

What sport are you conditioning yourself for?

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Join date: Oct 2007
Posts: 134

geekboy wrote:
Johnny Drama wrote:
Good to have you on board there Geekboy. I have 3 operations in the past 2 years (1 knee, 1 adductor and 1 shoulder) so I'm yet to get into the jump training post op. I'm probably a month off it so I'm itching to get into it.

When I was doing plymotrics I used to find the broad jump a good alternative and pretty easy to do because you only need room. No equipment is necessary.

Johnny, good luck to your re-heb. Thanks for your suggestion but room in fact is a problem for me because I train at a busy bodybuilding gym. Not only there is not much room but people are going to cut into the path all the time because they don't know what I am doing.


Rehab is done. I can go heavy now which is something I've very much been looking forward to for a couple of years now. It also works out well seeing I've got 6 months until the next football season so there is a lot of time to get strong and fast again.

I'm also looking forward to the in season training. I've often felt that most people concentrate on the off-season and lose their gains in the season.

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Scrotus
Level 3

Join date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1255

geekboy wrote:
Johnny, thanks for starting the thread. I was going to post my log on Bear's thread but this is just as good.

10/Oct - LBDE

Box jumps:

30" x 5, rest 1min
32" x 3, rest 1min
34" x 3, rest 1min
36" x 2, rest 1min
38" x 2 - this is getting hard... rest 1min
40" x 2 - really hard, taking deep breaths before attempts
41" x 1 - missed. Right shin hit box. Ouch. rest 1min.
41" x 2 - Again taking deep breaths before attempts. Got it at last (This is a new PR for box jumps)

(Note: There wasn't any proper jump box in my gym. My "stack" is a wood box + 7 20kg plates + foot platforms + rubber mat. The strange looking stack and my jump attempts (esp. the failed attempt) attracted a few stares :p)


Geekboy


kickass, i do jumps onto a block of wood in the back of my pickup or a concrete block with boards underneath for an apropriate height.

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remixpaul
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Join date: Jan 2007
Posts: 63

just for my own health, im not really training for any sport .. just to be strong as a bull and also not out of shape lol .. so ur saying eat some fruit in the morning before i run or just run on a empty stomach? anyone else have there opinions on this?

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remixpaul
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Join date: Jan 2007
Posts: 63

btw how long should i run up hill/do my stairs for? 90 min(which how long my ws4sb workouts last)? or just for an hour?

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Join date: Oct 2007
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remixpaul wrote:
just for my own health, im not really training for any sport .. just to be strong as a bull and also not out of shape lol .. so ur saying eat some fruit in the morning before i run or just run on a empty stomach? anyone else have there opinions on this?


Try a few differnet options. Try the breakfast before it/after it and see what works. Personally, I couldn't stomach my typical breakfast before heading out to the track. So something light gave me a bit of energy and then I would eat my breakfast after the session.

Luckily now, I have a job where it allows me to be an evening trainer and I don't have to worry about AM sessions.

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remixpaul wrote:
btw how long should i run up hill/do my stairs for? 90 min(which how long my ws4sb workouts last)? or just for an hour?


That sounds like a very long session to me considering the work you would be doing. I would say you could get a great conditioning session done in a third of that time in the hills or up the stairs.

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geekboy
Level 10

Join date: Feb 2005
Posts: 391

remixpaul wrote:
just for my own health, im not really training for any sport .. just to be strong as a bull and also not out of shape lol .. so ur saying eat some fruit in the morning before i run or just run on a empty stomach? anyone else have there opinions on this?


I sometimes do my karate training at the morning. I used to drink Milo with instant coffee about 30mins before training. However, after I discover T-Nation Milo is replaced by Surge. This is how I do it:

30mins before: 1/2srv Surge + 2 tea sp coffee

During training: 1/2srv Surge in 750ml water
(but I must admit sometimes I can't take it as I may throw up due to being punched/kicked on the stomach; When it happens I would just take a few zip and finish it after the class.)

After training: 1/2srv Surge + creatine

If you cannot afford Surge then Milo is still a good and cheap option. I would add some whey to it too.

Also if you are not training for an endurance sport I would suggest not to make your conditioning too long. Make it hard and short.

My $0.02NZD worth,

Geekboy

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Join date: Oct 2007
Posts: 134

geekboy wrote:
remixpaul wrote:
just for my own health, im not really training for any sport .. just to be strong as a bull and also not out of shape lol .. so ur saying eat some fruit in the morning before i run or just run on a empty stomach? anyone else have there opinions on this?

I sometimes do my karate training at the morning. I used to drink Milo with instant coffee about 30mins before training. However, after I discover T-Nation Milo is replaced by Surge. This is how I do it:

30mins before: 1/2srv Surge + 2 tea sp coffee

During training: 1/2srv Surge in 750ml water
(but I must admit sometimes I can't take it as I may throw up due to being punched/kicked on the stomach; When it happens I would just take a few zip and finish it after the class.)

After training: 1/2srv Surge + creatine

If you cannot afford Surge then Milo is still a good and cheap option. I would add some whey to it too.

Also if you are not training for an endurance sport I would suggest not to make your conditioning too long. Make it hard and short.

My $0.02NZD worth,

Geekboy


Berardi covers this in a few of his articles. I know there was an article written last year called "The Athlete Diary" or something that might be worth a read in regards to AM training.

Actually Geekboys suggested pre/during/post training servings Surge look similar to what Berardi suggests from memory.

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Nate Dogg
Level 5

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6973

remixpaul,

My workouts take less than an hour. If you are using the WS4SB template, all workouts should last an hour or less!

Maybe you're taking longer rest periods or busy talking instead of training! ;)

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remixpaul
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Join date: Jan 2007
Posts: 63

u think 30min of stairs would be enough? i usually thought a good hour would be enough of stairs or up hill mountain running cause the mountain and stadium stairs are 15 min from my house .. so i would have a nice warm up walk there do some stretching then up hill run or stairs for a good hour then nice cool down walk to my house and eat my can of tuna [=

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Join date: Oct 2007
Posts: 134

remixpaul wrote:
u think 30min of stairs would be enough? i usually thought a good hour would be enough of stairs or up hill mountain running cause the mountain and stadium stairs are 15 min from my house .. so i would have a nice warm up walk there do some stretching then up hill run or stairs for a good hour then nice cool down walk to my house and eat my can of tuna [=


With warm ups and that you would probably be around the 60-90 minute mark. I was just talking about the working part of the session.

My anaerobic and aerobic conditioning sessions work phase would only be around 30-45 minutes. Warm ups and cool down would put it in the vicinity of 90 minutes but only 30-45 mins of that is hard work.

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