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Why Multi-Ply Lifting is a Joke
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abebesheir
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Join date: Sep 2008
Posts: 29

I have been watching video of lifters preparing for the WPC Worlds. I won't name any names...
It is funny watching a fat guy get under 1000+ pounds in the squat. The bar is in a monolift, wouldn't want anyone to tire themselves out by unracking the bar and walking the weight out.

They huff and puff and snort ammonia, their training partners yell and slap them on the back. The psyche-up takes more time than the lift itself.
The squat, when is comes, is an anti-climax. The fat guy drops about 2 feet, stops well above parallel then starts back up, locking out with a grunt.
His training partners applaud the effort.

How can an honest lifter relate to this chicanery? I'm talking about a lifter who competes in only a belt and singlet, who unracks and walks out his squats and holds himself to a higher standard of excellence, i.e. actually breaking parallel.
And the bench press is no better...
More fat guys belly benching, using a max legal grip that would destroy their shoulders if they weren't wearing a bench shirt. Their ROM is maybe 12 inches. How impressive.

The deadlift is the only lift left that is free of this insanity. That is why lots of these SHWs squat 1000, bench 800 and pull only 600-700.
I'd be more impressed by a single-ply lifter in the USAPL going 800-600-700 or even better a raw lifter in the ADAU going 650-500-700.
Let's get some legitimacy back into powerlifting and ban multi-ply gear and monolifts. Call these guys on depth instead of contributing to their delusion.

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Kruiser
Level 4

Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1583

It would be like calling out pro BB'ers on their steroid usage. The spectator public demands freakishness in the upper echelon. The big numbers these guys are putting up justify it for them.

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KBCThird
Level 2

Join date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2919

abebesheir wrote:
I have been watching video of lifters preparing for the WPC Worlds. I won't name any names...
It is funny watching a fat guy get under 1000+ pounds in the squat. The bar is in a monolift, wouldn't want anyone to tire themselves out by unracking the bar and walking the weight out.

They huff and puff and snort ammonia, their training partners yell and slap them on the back. The psyche-up takes more time than the lift itself.
The squat, when is comes, is an anti-climax. The fat guy drops about 2 feet, stops well above parallel then starts back up, locking out with a grunt.
His training partners applaud the effort.

How can an honest lifter relate to this chicanery? I'm talking about a lifter who competes in only a belt and singlet, who unracks and walks out his squats and holds himself to a higher standard of excellence, i.e. actually breaking parallel.
And the bench press is no better...
More fat guys belly benching, using a max legal grip that would destroy their shoulders if they weren't wearing a bench shirt. Their ROM is maybe 12 inches. How impressive.

The deadlift is the only lift left that is free of this insanity. That is why lots of these SHWs squat 1000, bench 800 and pull only 600-700.
I'd be more impressed by a single-ply lifter in the USAPL going 800-600-700 or even better a raw lifter in the ADAU going 650-500-700.
Let's get some legitimacy back into powerlifting and ban multi-ply gear and monolifts. Call these guys on depth instead of contributing to their delusion.


You're an idiot. Either you labor under the delusion that what you are saying is new and fresh, or else you just dont care that this same exact argument has already been held a million times before and you're only talking to hear yourself talk.

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malonetd
Level 4

Join date: May 2004
Posts: 5044

*yawn*

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FightingScott
Level 1

Join date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3323

abebesheir wrote:
I have squatted 405x2 in the gym at 218 bodyweight.
I have benched 315x2 paused also at 218.
My best deadlift set was 455x2 at the same weight.


You're strong enough and experienced enough to declare that the APA and the IPA are jokes? Right. Sure. Whatever.

Have you ever even put on a Squat suit? Have you ever even lifted in a Bench Shirt?

And what's up with this obsession people have over Super Heavy Weight Powerlifters, as if they're the only people who powerlift?
First off, there are other weight classes. Second off, just because the SHWs and 308s are fairly bloated doesn't mean they have an incredible amount of Raw Strength. It's not fat and double ply polyester that's actually moving the weight. Donnie Thompson, Chad Aches, Mike Miller, Andy Bolton: These guys aren't competing in Multi-Ply meets just so they can use gear. They're competing in Multi-Ply meets because that's where all the strongest powerlifters in the world are competing.

If the Kaz, Paul Anderson, Franco Colombo, and other big old-time Powerlifters had access to Multi-Ply gear they probably would have used multi-ply gear too.

And what's up with raggin on pre-lift rituals? Is every raw lifter lifting with no emotion - pure focus - ice in his veins? I know that's not true. No matter where you go, the so called pre-lift ritual is going to take longer than the lift. It's one fucking rep. It's not going to take a long time - gear or no gear. If it takes me 4 seconds to put on a belt and 4 seconds to chalk up, then a relativly modest ritual has just taken longer than one grinder of a Max Lift.

Furthermore, for the sake of raw lifting, stop being a dick! I can't think of ANY top-level raw powerlifter who wastes his time talking about how Multi-Ply lifters are just kidding themselves.
If you don't want to lift Multi-Ply, there are plenty of Raw Federations to choose from. I think some of them don't even allow for neophrine knee sleeves if you're really anal about this. And if you want to prove your stronger than the Multi-Ply guys, then get some Multi-Ply gear and prove it.

Raw Powerlifting is a sport that's dependent on 1 thing - limit strength.

Multi-Ply powerlifting is a slightly different sport depending on 2 things - limit strength and the lifters ability to utilize his assistance gear.

No matter what, you gotta be strong.

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skidmark
Level 1

Join date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3894

This is not a productive use of time.

The raw vs. geared argument is not worth it as they are essentially two different sports that happen to have lifts in common.

I like feeling good about my lifts and want to cheer everyone on in their own pursuit of excellence rather than try to elevate my chosen pursuit over another's by bashing theirs.

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Scott M
Level 2

Join date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4303

That's the beauty of powerlifting... there are 100 different federations and you can follow whichever one fits your ideals of what powerlifting should be. Carry on getting pissed off at what others like... it'll serve you well.

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abebesheir
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Join date: Sep 2008
Posts: 29

FightingScott wrote:

Have you ever even put on a Squat suit? Have you ever even lifted in a Bench Shirt?



I have lifted in a bench shirt before. It was a used Inzer HPHD Blast shirt that I was able to put on by myself. My raw bench at the time was 285@190. With the shirt I was able to bench 315 after two weeks of practice (I had been board pressing for several months before, though).

I didn't much like the beat up feeling in my wrists and elbows from handling a weight that was above my natural strength limit. I also didn't like the bruising and "bite-marks" the shirt left behind.

I tried to put on an Inzer Z-suit that was a size 34, I couldn't get it over my thighs when I weighed 195.

I think I was a bit misunderstood in this thread... I'm not actaully bashing the use of multi-ply gear. Just the shitty judging that usually accompanies this. It's like there is a separate standard of judging for multi-ply lifting. The lifts just don't look as clean as raw lifts.

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abebesheir
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Join date: Sep 2008
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skidmark wrote:

The raw vs. geared argument is not worth it as they are essentially two different sports that happen to have lifts in common.



This is exactly what I was trying to convey before my bitterness got in the way.

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abebesheir
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Join date: Sep 2008
Posts: 29

Scott M wrote:
Carry on getting pissed off at what others like... it'll serve you well.


Thanks for the advice. I plan to follow it.

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Westclock
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Join date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3502

I lift raw but I use steroids.


Doesn't that make me geared ? :P

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UAphenix
Level 1

Join date: Jul 2008
Posts: 249

You know those meet prep squats you are seeing are high for a reason? Their trying to dial in their gear to see what is need to get down to parallel.

When it comes to meet time, you do have to break parallel but at the same time it may not be obvious to the novice that the lifter is breaking parallel with the gear on. The meets i have been to have all been judged very strictly.

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DoubleDuce
Level 5

Join date: Jul 2008
Posts: 12760

abebesheir wrote:
skidmark wrote:

The raw vs. geared argument is not worth it as they are essentially two different sports that happen to have lifts in common.



This is exactly what I was trying to convey before my bitterness got in the way.


Exactly. A geared lift and a raw lift are different exercises. It?s like trying to argue whether funny cars or top fuelers are better, or more pure forms of drag racing.

Funny cars have a big car body and short wheel base, but top fuelers have lower ETs.

Are top fuelers cheating by having a longer wheel base and improved aerodynamics? No, it?s a different classification with different rules. Yes, they are both drag racing, but there is a reason they don?t run against each other.

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Pinto
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Join date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1405

abebesheir wrote:
I have been watching video of lifters preparing for the WPC Worlds. I won't name any names...
It is funny watching a fat guy get under 1000+ pounds in the squat. The bar is in a monolift, wouldn't want anyone to tire themselves out by unracking the bar and walking the weight out.

They huff and puff and snort ammonia, their training partners yell and slap them on the back. The psyche-up takes more time than the lift itself.

The squat, when is comes, is an anti-climax. The fat guy drops about 2 feet, stops well above parallel then starts back up, locking out with a grunt.

His training partners applaud the effort.

How can an honest lifter relate to this chicanery? I'm talking about a lifter who competes in only a belt and singlet, who unracks and walks out his squats and holds himself to a higher standard of excellence, i.e. actually breaking parallel.

And the bench press is no better...
More fat guys belly benching, using a max legal grip that would destroy their shoulders if they weren't wearing a bench shirt. Their ROM is maybe 12 inches. How impressive.

The deadlift is the only lift left that is free of this insanity. That is why lots of these SHWs squat 1000, bench 800 and pull only 600-700.
I'd be more impressed by a single-ply lifter in the USAPL going 800-600-700 or even better a raw lifter in the ADAU going 650-500-700.

Let's get some legitimacy back into powerlifting and ban multi-ply gear and monolifts. Call these guys on depth instead of contributing to their delusion.


You talk some pretty hard shit, player. I bet you're hitting some UN-sane raw numbers, right?

If you're not- than shut the fuck up, little man.








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FightingScott
Level 1

Join date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3323

abebesheir wrote:
I think I was a bit misunderstood in this thread... I'm not actaully bashing the use of multi-ply gear. Just the shitty judging that usually accompanies this. It's like there is a separate standard of judging for multi-ply lifting. The lifts just don't look as clean as raw lifts.


I don't know what to say about this. Because of YouTube, there are a lot of Videos that make Wide-Stance, Monolift Squatting appear to be above parallel.

But after seeing Jeremy Frey tape himself from 4 different angles while he did raw, wide stance squats out of a monolift, I have to say that the angle of the camera makes a HUGE difference. Some angles I thought "wow, that's a little high" and others I thought "wow, why would you go that much below parallel?"

If you weren't bashing multi-ply gear, then why do we have to lift raw in order to have integrity? You used some pretty strong words. I think you're the only person who doesn't think you bashed multi-ply gear, especially given the title of your thread.

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matsm21
Level 5

Join date: Mar 2005
Posts: 954

if its such a joke, get under a 1000 lb. bar and do it.

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Dominator
Level 5

Join date: Feb 2005
Posts: 347

abebesheir wrote:
I think I was a bit misunderstood in this thread... I'm not actaully bashing the use of multi-ply gear. Just the shitty judging that usually accompanies this. It's like there is a separate standard of judging for multi-ply lifting. The lifts just don't look as clean as raw lifts.


UPA is using the strict judging criteria with multi-ply gear.

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Dominator
Level 5

Join date: Feb 2005
Posts: 347

FightingScott wrote:
If you weren't bashing multi-ply gear, then why do we have to lift raw in order to have integrity? You used some pretty strong words. I think you're the only person who doesn't think you bashed multi-ply gear, especially given the title of your thread.


+1

I'm at the point now where I can't stand these Rah guys anymore...they're like a cult of Crossfitters who always try and explain how their measly total is somehow much more impressive than a guy he puts on gear and lifts like 3-5 times more than what they can do.

I also love that they can somehow quantify how each ply of gear adds in total, and that somehow after this bizarre subtraction/comparison process, their 1000 lb total is somehow way more impressive than the guy who just totaled Elite with gear and a Mono.

Why is it always the Rah guys always bring up these Raw vs Gear debates???

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BigMike
Level 2

Join date: Feb 2005
Posts: 315

whats wrong with a mono lift ? it seems like it could cut down on injuries , why wouldn't ungeared lifters use it ?

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Hanley
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Join date: Jun 2005
Posts: 5729

Wow... so some whiny little fucker who is only moderately strong comes on here and bashes the guys who'd out lift him equipped, raw, naked, in the dark, at the beach, and anywhere else where strength can be displayed?

Waste of a thread.

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buckeye girl
Level 1

Join date: May 2007
Posts: 3230

abebesheir wrote:
I have squatted 405x2 in the gym at 218 bodyweight.


What's your point?

I just got home from the gym. Today was ME squat. Not more than 3 hours ago, I watched a 165er (drug free!) box squat 405 RAAAW! to legal squat depth. He also happens to lift at one of the strongest multi-ply gyms in the country.

And then I found $5.


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PublickStews
Level 3

Join date: Jan 2005
Posts: 504

Why does walking out a squat make it more legitimate? I don't hear anyone complaining about having a liftoff man for the bench press. Nor do I recall any federations stipulating that you have to take a few steps after locking out a deadlift.

We're testing the ability to lift weight, and the invention of the monolift gets rid of a stupid phase of a movement which is irrelevant to true limit strength.



Donnie Thompson is obviously pathetically weak raw!

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elano
Level 1

Join date: May 2008
Posts: 2981

PublickStews wrote:
Why does walking out a squat make it more legitimate? I don't hear anyone complaining about having a liftoff man for the bench press. Nor do I recall any federations stipulating that you have to take a few steps after locking out a deadlift.

We're testing the ability to lift weight, and the invention of the monolift gets rid of a stupid phase of a movement which is irrelevant to true limit strength.



Donnie Thompson is obviously pathetically weak raw!


That lift looked like legit depth to me, whats the deal?

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skidmark
Level 1

Join date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3894

PublickStews wrote:
Why does walking out a squat make it more legitimate? I don't hear anyone complaining about having a liftoff man for the bench press. Nor do I recall any federations stipulating that you have to take a few steps after locking out a deadlift.

We're testing the ability to lift weight, and the invention of the monolift gets rid of a stupid phase of a movement which is irrelevant to true limit strength.



Donnie Thompson is obviously pathetically weak raw!


he was robbed!

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FightingScott
Level 1

Join date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3323

Dominator wrote:

Why is it always the Rah guys always bring up these Raw vs Gear debates???



How come there aren't any STRONG Raw guys who bring up the Raw vs Gear Debates?

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