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VTTrainer
Level 0
Join date: Feb 2011
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 332
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kjmont wrote:
I am thinking about either bumping up my squats to twice a week OR switching to sumo deads to work on glutes. I was doing a modified powerlifting program to build more size before my next comp but this is what I was thinking.
Mon - Bench + accessories
Tuesday -
Sumo Deads OR Yoke Bar Squats OR Front Squats
an exercise that hits the hamstrings and erectors hard.
Abs
Wed - Upper Back Work
High Pulls
Heavy DB Rows
Lats
Thurs - OFF (extra abs)
Friday - Shoulders, Some Extra Tris, and some bis
Saturday
Leg Curls
Squats
Lunges
Leg Press or trap Bar deads
RDLs
ABS
And doing mobility work everday.
Aragon summed it up, pretty much. I've never believed that squats and deads hit your core enough, bc the core is always the weaklink in the motion for a lot of people.
Regarding your insulin site. I'm not sure how often you change that spot, if at all, but, you don't need to roll your glutes out right before training, it would help TREMENDOUSLY to do it the morning of or the night before. If you can do that given your situation (bc i have no clue how you deal w those things), then do it.
Same goes for the mobility work too. I know I feel like $1M if I spend some time in the gym doing a moderate warmup for sore areas with ton's of mobility work and painful myofascial work, then lift later in the day. If anything, all I do is thoracic mobility prior to lifting with a good warmup, no other mobility work or stretching needed (for me). Fuck, do it twice a day.
Last thing. DON'T make abs your last thought, like you listed. I'd suggest doing a few moderately hard ab exercises after the warmup, then after your main lift do core work 50% of the rest of the lifts (50% core meaning entire core, not just anterior and obliques, but that's not an excuse to continue abusing your low back).
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Barge
Level 4
Join date: Dec 2009
Location:
Posts: 120
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I'm gonna kinda go against the grain here a little bit with people mentioning all this accessory work.
You need to deadlift a weight that you can do with proper form... which right now for you would be a tight upper back and an arched/neutral lower back. If you do that it will hit all these weak points without doing 26 other exercises.
Sure accessory work has its place but don't keep DL'ing too much weight with crappy for waiting for accessory work to bring up your weak spots.
FYI regarding your back squats. Like a deadlift always lead with your chest out of the bottom. If you lead with your chest your hips won't shoot up. If your chest goes up the rest of your body goes with it.
My lifting cues are:
Deadlift: Lead with my chest, once the bar passes my knees thrust hips forward as hard as I can.
Back Squat: Drive the chest up
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VTTrainer
Level 0
Join date: Feb 2011
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 332
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Barge wrote:
I'm gonna kinda go against the grain here a little bit with people mentioning all this accessory work.
You need to deadlift a weight that you can do with proper form...
He can't do 135 right, but maybe you didnt see the vid of it to post this. so no, going against the grain is stupid to help him do anything but enforce his current, bad form. 45lb bar deadlifts are pretty lame and useless for a guy who has pulled over 450
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Barge
Level 4
Join date: Dec 2009
Location:
Posts: 120
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I guess I just have a hard time believing he can't do 135 with decent form.
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VTTrainer
Level 0
Join date: Feb 2011
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 332
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Barge wrote:
I guess I just have a hard time believing he can't do 135 with decent form.
I would too had I not seen the video, I always learn something new I guess
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kjmont
Level 5
Join date: Feb 2010
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 806
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VTTrainer wrote:
kjmont wrote:
I am thinking about either bumping up my squats to twice a week OR switching to sumo deads to work on glutes. I was doing a modified powerlifting program to build more size before my next comp but this is what I was thinking.
Mon - Bench + accessories
Tuesday -
Sumo Deads OR Yoke Bar Squats OR Front Squats
an exercise that hits the hamstrings and erectors hard.
Abs
Wed - Upper Back Work
High Pulls
Heavy DB Rows
Lats
Thurs - OFF (extra abs)
Friday - Shoulders, Some Extra Tris, and some bis
Saturday
Leg Curls
Squats
Lunges
Leg Press or trap Bar deads
RDLs
ABS
And doing mobility work everday.
Aragon summed it up, pretty much. I've never believed that squats and deads hit your core enough, bc the core is always the weaklink in the motion for a lot of people.
Regarding your insulin site. I'm not sure how often you change that spot, if at all, but, you don't need to roll your glutes out right before training, it would help TREMENDOUSLY to do it the morning of or the night before. If you can do that given your situation (bc i have no clue how you deal w those things), then do it.
Same goes for the mobility work too. I know I feel like $1M if I spend some time in the gym doing a moderate warmup for sore areas with ton's of mobility work and painful myofascial work, then lift later in the day. If anything, all I do is thoracic mobility prior to lifting with a good warmup, no other mobility work or stretching needed (for me). Fuck, do it twice a day.
Last thing. DON'T make abs your last thought, like you listed. I'd suggest doing a few moderately hard ab exercises after the warmup, then after your main lift do core work 50% of the rest of the lifts (50% core meaning entire core, not just anterior and obliques, but that's not an excuse to continue abusing your low back).
Ok i'll start doing my core work the way you recommend and I rotate my site every 2-3 days so I'll just roll the opposite until it switches.
And maybe I'll switch my cues and see if I can't atleast pull 135 right!
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scorpionsf
Level 0
Join date: Oct 2012
Location:
Posts: 8
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lol at only squatting once a week
your routine looks like total garbage btw
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kjmont
Level 5
Join date: Feb 2010
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 806
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scorpionsf wrote:
lol at only squatting once a week
your routine looks like total garbage btw
Thanks for that helpful insight.
I only squat once a week because I was pulling heavy the other day and I'm making progress each week and setting PRs each session.
I'm pretty sure thats all that matters as far as that is concerned.
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hungry4more
Level 2
Join date: Nov 2007
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 6297
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asooneyeonig wrote:
scottkoscielniak wrote:
core is definatly not tight. Suck you air into you belly and push out against the belt. It seems like the first thing that moves in your lower back. The lower back should stay rigid. You probably have weak hams and glutes so to compensate you transfer the weight to your lower back instead.
i totaly agree with this post. its like your legs are weak so your body compensates and tries to use the back for the entire lift. this to me is exemplified by your squats.
make your legs stronger. and not just your hammies and glutes but the quads too.
These. If your squat is 275x3 (and that's even assuming you're squatting to depth), and your deadlift is 455 or so, it should be pretty obvious that you need to work on your squat more, and legs/core in general. Your lower back is taking over the whole movement, which in time will kill it.
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dez6485
Level 4
Join date: Sep 2005
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 2115
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Looks like you're doing something that I did for a long time- you're starting with your hips too high, not using leg drive. You're essentially stiff-legging it. I would guess that you aren't pulling the bar up your shins either.
Try setting up with the bar about 4" from your shins while standing. Reach down, get your grip, then drop your hips- at this point your weight should transfer forward and shins should contact the bar. Sack up, and pull that fucking bar up your shins. Your form looks worse than mine did, but it appears to be the same issues- I also wasn't contacting my shins. First couple pulls of the workout kind of suck, but you get used to it and it's no big deal. Once I started doing this, my lower back was no longer trashed the day after deads.
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Aragorn
Level 4
Join date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 7251
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Well, thanks to both Sandos and Consul for the props guys (and girls). I just try to help out. I've done a lot of things wrong in the past so I like to think I've learned a thing or two over the years of screwing up haha.
To the OP--I have no doubt that with your attitude you will eventually come out on top. I think you'll eventually put this all behind you and pull even heavier weights.
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Consul
Level 0
Join date: Feb 2012
Location: England
Posts: 1157
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Aragorn wrote:
Well, thanks to both Sandos and Consul for the props guys (and girls). I just try to help out. I've done a lot of things wrong in the past so I like to think I've learned a thing or two over the years of screwing up haha.
To the OP--I have no doubt that with your attitude you will eventually come out on top. I think you'll eventually put this all behind you and pull even heavier weights.
You're welcome, man. Learning from the screw-ups seems to be the important factor in determining success.
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HPLouis
Level 0
Join date: Nov 2012
Location:
Posts: 13
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This is a great thread, I'm glad I saw it this morning. Thanks OP for posting and thanks to everyone else giving such great advice.
I'm a new lifter also, I've been doing this for 6 months now and the advice on this board, and especially this thread is great.
Henry
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kjmont
Level 5
Join date: Feb 2010
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 806
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dez6485 wrote:
Looks like you're doing something that I did for a long time- you're starting with your hips too high, not using leg drive. You're essentially stiff-legging it. I would guess that you aren't pulling the bar up your shins either.
Try setting up with the bar about 4" from your shins while standing. Reach down, get your grip, then drop your hips- at this point your weight should transfer forward and shins should contact the bar. Sack up, and pull that fucking bar up your shins. Your form looks worse than mine did, but it appears to be the same issues- I also wasn't contacting my shins. First couple pulls of the workout kind of suck, but you get used to it and it's no big deal. Once I started doing this, my lower back was no longer trashed the day after deads.
I'll give that a go when I hit up some speed deads tonight. But for the most part I am taking a break from heavy deads for awhile to bring up my weak points on it.
For anyone who is having similar issues I found this another older post on weak abs and stormthebeach dishes out some great info that is to fix a guy having similar rounding problems as me.
deathtofitness.blogspot.com/2011/02/six-pack-abs-how-to-get-them-and-why_22.html
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Barge
Level 4
Join date: Dec 2009
Location:
Posts: 120
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You might want to not worry about the speed on your speed deads either. Do them correctly or don't do them at all (I vote for the doing them correctly option).
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tedro
Level 1
Join date: Jan 2005
Location: Kansas, USA
Posts: 2040
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Pretty much what Aragorn said, but at the risk of giving you some information overload I have an additional suggestion.
Do your front squats as he described 1x a week.
On your second leg day, again start with front squats as Aragorn said, and then switch to back squats working up to one near max effort set of 5 reps. Then take about 50-60% of that 5 rep weight and do pause squats to the pins for 3 sets of 5.
Ideally you will set the pins just below parallel. For me, it usually works out that I bring them up one hole higher from where they were set for back squats as safety pins. Go down under control until the bar hits the pins, pause for about a second but DO NOT relax, and then explode up concentrating mainly on two things: 1) Lead with your chest 2) keep your knees out.
Ideally you should be able to work up to the point where you are doing 70-75% of your 5RM.
This will really help reenforce the correct movement pattern coming out of the hole. By pausing, the whole movement slows way down and you'll really be able to concentrate on getting your chest up. As long as you keep your chest up, your back should stay flat. Not only will both the front and pause squats really help your leg strength, but I've also found they help with hip/groin/back flexibility as much as anything.
I'm also in the camp that you should not deadlift at all for a while. Ideally, you would completely forgot how to deadlift and rewrite that motor pattern in a few months after your squat intensive cycle. If you feel like you must deadlift, I'd suggest giving sumo a shot for a while.
As for your assistance work I really don't think it matters much. Go for a GHR or reverse hyper if you have access, otherwise just make sure you are squatting with enough intensity that you don't even need it. Personally, split squats and lunges are favorites of mine, but I definitely wouldn't recommend you do the split squats. It's just too easy to bend forward at the hips and you'll end up rounding your back again. Lunges may be worth a shot. I'd cut out anything and everything that causes you to round your back, though, including good mornings. Again, we need your body to forget that movement and that won't happen if you keep doing exercises that reenforce it.
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Fletch1986
Level 3
Join date: Aug 2007
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 3974
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As far as the pin squats go, if they jar your shoulder and elbows too much, you can use chains to catch the bar. Just set the pins fairly high and close the chains around them so the bar catches on the chains at or a little below parallel.
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