Building High-Performance Muscle™
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My Deadlift is a Disaster
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kjmont
Level 100

Join date: Feb 2010
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 1086

As much as I hate to do one of those critique my form threads but....


Just look at my dead, its a mess! No matter how hard I arch or feel my stomach with air, try to use leg drive and keep my bacl tight I round over like a scared cat! This isn't even a maximal set. Right now I can pull 405 x 5, 455 for a single on anyday. For the record i squat 275 x 3 to give an idea of leg strength. I have tried goodmornings, RDLs and upper back work and nothing fixes the round over. I even round over on strictly.hamstring.and lower back work.(goodmornings and rdls).

Any help is much appreciated.

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tyler90
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Join date: Dec 2012
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 1

How much are you pulling there?

Easiest solution would be to drop weight and work your way back up, focusing solely on form.
Also keeping your back tight is one thing, however I find keeping your abs tight (while ensuring chest up to keep back straight) helps a lot in order to keep pressure off the back.

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kjmont
Level 100

Join date: Feb 2010
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 1086

Thats 405 right there. And I try to keep form but I start to lose it even on light sets. I try to keep my chest up but maybe I am not driving my chest up hard enough.

For the record heres and older video, 3 or so months old of some light pulls. Been trying to fix this problem for ages.

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scottkoscielniak
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Join date: Oct 2011
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 500

core is definatly not tight. Suck you air into you belly and push out against the belt. It seems like the first thing that moves in your lower back. The lower back should stay rigid. You probably have weak hams and glutes so to compensate you transfer the weight to your lower back instead.

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scottkoscielniak
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Join date: Oct 2011
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 500

and to bring those areas up use Glute Ham Raises, RDL's, glute bridges, and a healthy dose of legs curls although the lifts before are better than the leg curls.

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kjmont
Level 100

Join date: Feb 2010
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 1086

scottkoscielniak wrote:
core is definatly not tight. Suck you air into you belly and push out against the belt. It seems like the first thing that moves in your lower back. The lower back should stay rigid. You probably have weak hams and glutes so to compensate you transfer the weight to your lower back instead.


Can a small waist be part of the problem on keeping the core tight? I have had a very narrow frame and bone structure and my waist only measures a 31/32. I have been trying to fill it out quite a bit though. Up from a 28 when I started lifting. Still ways to go though.

What is some glute/ham work that I can do to prevent my lower back trying to do the work? I don't have access to a ghr.

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kjmont
Level 100

Join date: Feb 2010
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 1086

Ah beat me to my question, but it still stands, and for the record I never feel glute bridges in my glutes, I feel like my hips lock up before I can get a contraction. All I ever feel it in is my hams.

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mkral55
Level 2

Join date: May 2010
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 818

You are reinforcing that form every time you do it that way, and you reinforce it further if you round on other movements. You basically need to stop doing that. If that means dropping the weight down drastically, that's what I would do. Keep in mind any time you make a significant improvement to your form, it results in a rather quick and significant increase in numbers. So, you will get back in weight fast, and will jump past where you are quite a bit.

For specific advice, since no one else has mentioned it yet, I would recommend more upper back work, too.

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rehanb_bl
Level 1

Join date: Dec 2009
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 1208

poor hip capsule mobility and weak glutes, fix those

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csulli
Level 1

Join date: May 2012
Location: Tennessee, USA
Posts: 6145

Is your deadlift continuing to improve at an acceptable rate? Do you experience any pain or discomfort during or after deadlifts?

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Mathew Bertrand
Contributor

Join date: Feb 2005
Location:
Posts: 630

first, break the weight off the floor slowly and under control, grind it off the floor. One of the main reasons this is happening is because you're trying to explode into it from the start. Grind it off the floor, then accellerate to lockout.

Second, most back rounding problems can be attributed to tight hams... I'd like to see a side profile picture of you in tight underwear standing totally relaxed.

either way, start this warm up immediately:



Also look up sheiko #29, find one in english, if you can't find it, pm your email, but you need to work on some deadlift to knees, that should help a lot, as well the sheiko program is light enough that you should be able to use good form, but high enough volume you'll feel like you trained.

Best of luck man

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kjmont
Level 100

Join date: Feb 2010
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 1086

csuli yes it is still moving up despite it moving slowly but my lower back does get beat up from it and I am thinking long term PRs rather than right now PRs since I don't have another strongman show or a possible PL meet in atleast 6 more months.

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kjmont
Level 100

Join date: Feb 2010
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 1086

at Larry heres the photo.

And I have found an english version of sheiko and I am sure I can find it again. Just to be clear the deadlift to knees means you pause at the knees than lockout correct?

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Mathew Bertrand
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Join date: Feb 2005
Location:
Posts: 630

nope, you just pull it to the knees pause, then back down. Doesn't sound like much fun, but it will go a long way to teaching you how to begin your pull, trust me.

Your posture looks relatively fine to me, shoulders are good... no pelvic tilt, but I've also seen guys with such tight hamstrings that it balances them out even with tight hips... so I'd advise daily use of the above video, as well as some static stretching for the hams.

Keep in mind you have a long torso now that I see it. stop trying to arch, keep your back flat, or slightly rounded, then get that very tight, and begin the pulls to your knees.

just keep squatting and you won't get weaker at all, you'll likely get much stronger because of your form man...

best of luck and let me know if you have any questions

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Barge
Level 5

Join date: Dec 2009
Location:
Posts: 121

First of all... stop deadlifting like that.

Rounding your upper back is OK. Rounding your lower back like that is not nearly so OK.

Since you're talking about your hamstrings I would recommend getting some. The back of your legs is totally flat.

Also getting to your actual deadlift form. You're leading with your hips... your shoulders should be the first thing to move along with the bar. If you want to lift with your hips that high then start with them that high with your low back arched.

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Fletch1986
Level 3

Join date: Aug 2007
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 4676

Larry10 wrote:
nope, you just pull it to the knees pause, then back down. Doesn't sound like much fun, but it will go a long way to teaching you how to begin your pull, trust me.

Your posture looks relatively fine to me, shoulders are good... no pelvic tilt, but I've also seen guys with such tight hamstrings that it balances them out even with tight hips... so I'd advise daily use of the above video, as well as some static stretching for the hams.

Keep in mind you have a long torso now that I see it. stop trying to arch, keep your back flat, or slightly rounded, then get that very tight, and begin the pulls to your knees.

just keep squatting and you won't get weaker at all, you'll likely get much stronger because of your form man...

best of luck and let me know if you have any questions


I hope I'm not derailing, but what's your suggestion for anterior pevlic tilt?

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Mathew Bertrand
Contributor

Join date: Feb 2005
Location:
Posts: 630

basically stretch the hips aggresively, strengthen hamstrings and glutes.

as well, stretch the pecs and lats and shoulders, strengthen the upper back, as most pelvic tilt also accompanies kyphosis, ie shoulders rolled forward posture.

in a nutshell anyways.

and not derailing at all, I welcome all questions on any topics, and I doubt the OP minds much

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Fletch1986
Level 3

Join date: Aug 2007
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 4676

I can avoid APT while lifting just by staying really tight, but when passively standing I've got it pretty bad.

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theuofh
Level 4

Join date: Feb 2008
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 3289

Try stretching your ankles (knees out over toes), setting up with the bar a bit more forward and closer to toes, and back more horizontal. I think your setting up way too upright with your hips too far back, and unable to properly break the bar off the floor.

This is technique issue, and has little to do with stretching, mobility or any of that crap. If anything is tight, its your ankles and you can't get your knees forward enough.



Try pendlay rows to see how it should feel.

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asooneyeonig
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Join date: Jun 2011
Location: Nebraska, USA
Posts: 612

scottkoscielniak wrote:
core is definatly not tight. Suck you air into you belly and push out against the belt. It seems like the first thing that moves in your lower back. The lower back should stay rigid. You probably have weak hams and glutes so to compensate you transfer the weight to your lower back instead.


i totaly agree with this post. its like your legs are weak so your body compensates and tries to use the back for the entire lift. this to me is exemplified by your squats.

make your legs stronger. and not just your hammies and glutes but the quads too.

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Mathew Bertrand
Contributor

Join date: Feb 2005
Location:
Posts: 630

Fletch1986 wrote:
I can avoid APT while lifting just by staying really tight, but when passively standing I've got it pretty bad.


hey man, if you could start a thread with a side profile pic of you in tight underwear, as well as a vid of your squat, and I could come up with a routine that would seriously help, I had some bigtime posture problems from hockey and fixed them all up.

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Mathew Bertrand
Contributor

Join date: Feb 2005
Location:
Posts: 630

theuofh wrote:
Try stretching your ankles (knees out over toes), setting up with the bar a bit more forward and closer to toes, and back more horizontal. I think your setting up way too upright with your hips too far back, and unable to properly break the bar off the floor.

This is technique issue, and has little to do with stretching, mobility or any of that crap. If anything is tight, its your ankles and you can't get your knees forward enough.



Try pendlay rows to see how it should feel.



Hey man, I really like your idea of pendlay rows.

but, why would u think it has nothing to do with mobility?

I personally went with mobility as even at light weights he rounds... just made sense to me. But I also did think it was a technique issue as well, I see both of them being an issue.

what do you think?

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Deadsion
Level 1

Join date: May 2007
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 400

Your upper back could also be weak and unable to hold the proper position. Anytime my form starts to slip in the upper back area, I just head over to the local rack and do heavy rack deadlifts for reps, racked at or slightly above the knees, focusing especially on keeping the back arched and pulling backwards. If you do it right, it should improve your glute strength.

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black_angus1
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Join date: May 2009
Location: Iowa, USA
Posts: 836

Larry10 wrote:
hey man, if you could start a thread with a side profile pic of you in tight underwear


no hetero

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kgildner
Level

Join date: Sep 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 735

I find you're bending your neck a great deal and cocking your head upwards while you're lifting. Have a look again at your videos, it's even apparent in the light sets. Not sure if this will have a major impact on your lumbar issues, but, in addition to the advice given by the posters above, I'd recommend trying to tuck your chin in order to encourage an overall more neutral spinal alignment.

If you're training with a mirror, try to face in the other direction. This worked well for me; I stopped "initiating" the movement with my head and hyperextending my back too much at lockout. Narcissus syndrome. ;-)

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