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How Can I Reach Over 300lb Bench?
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razo530
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Join date: Oct 2012
Posts: 6

I'am 16, 6'1,weight 196lbs,have a 250lb bench press and a 165lb overhead press. Can you guys suggest or give a training program that will take me to a 300lb bench or higher before 2014. I'd be willing to run the training program and\or nutrional program and report progress. Looking for professional help.

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furo
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Join date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1383

Reading the articles is always a good way to start:

http://www.T-Nation.com/...w_i_benched_400

Otherwise you are doing very well for your age, pretty much any good programme should take you to that level in 13 months. I know a lot of people have great success with 5-3-1 so that would be a good choice.

Good luck.

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csulli
Level 1

Join date: May 2012
Posts: 7666

6'1" 196lbs

Honestly the fastest way for you to up your bench would be to gain weight. I know you're only 16, so you're doing well for your age, but if you fill out your frame a bit more, the bench should be there no problem.

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Chicksan
Level 2

Join date: Dec 2011
Posts: 309

csulli wrote:
6'1" 196lbs

Honestly the fastest way for you to up your bench would be to gain weight. I know you're only 16, so you're doing well for your age, but if you fill out your frame a bit more, the bench should be there no problem.



I agree with this. You are 7inches taller than me, yet you only have about 6lbs on me and Im not a big guy at all. So eat

As far as training, I always recommend people use the methods made popular by Westside Barbell, but there is an entire thread dedicated to it.

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Mathew Bertrand
Contributor

Join date: Feb 2005
Posts: 632

hey man, congrats on the 250 bench, at 16 that's very impressive.

I noticed you wanted profesional help, I'm a candian national powerlifting champion, and former professional strongman (meaning I came last at the pro shows, lol), and I'm gunning for a 405 bench right now. I know you may have wanted to hire a coach, you could PM and we could work something out, I've coached tons of kids to tons of titles now.

But in all honesty, here's what you do. put your email address on here, and I'll email you the sheiko programs. Bench was a weakness for me until i began them, and now it's becoming a stregnth. YOu'll bench 3 times a week, with working sets around 80% for verious rep ranges and have a total intensity over all sets of about 70%. Sorry if that's confusing, when you get the program, you just put in your max and it tells you what to do.

Then do 50 chin ups after you bench, with as many sets as it takes you to get there, do face pulls for your upper back, dumbell flyes for the chest mucles and to keep your pecs healthy and maybe some side laterals if you have the energy or care.

Then, put a video up of you benching, and myself and others will help you get the form, which is by far the most important thing you need, to bench 300.

531 is very good if choose to go that route, I did it for almost a year and liked it, but I didn't make crazy gains and I feel there are more optimal ways to train. Westside is really cool, but its a program based around a bench shirt, it works for raw as well, but once again, I feel there are more optimal ways to do it. Gaining weight is always good, as long as it's good weight, but I don't know if it's necessary for you to hit 300, it will definitely help however.

Good luck and feel free to PM any questions you have at all, and don't forget to post your email.

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Chicksan
Level 2

Join date: Dec 2011
Posts: 309

Larry10 wrote:
hey man, congrats on the 250 bench, at 16 that's very impressive.

I noticed you wanted profesional help, I'm a candian national powerlifting champion, and former professional strongman (meaning I came last at the pro shows, lol), and I'm gunning for a 405 bench right now. I know you may have wanted to hire a coach, you could PM and we could work something out, I've coached tons of kids to tons of titles now.

But in all honesty, here's what you do. put your email address on here, and I'll email you the sheiko programs. Bench was a weakness for me until i began them, and now it's becoming a stregnth. YOu'll bench 3 times a week, with working sets around 80% for verious rep ranges and have a total intensity over all sets of about 70%. Sorry if that's confusing, when you get the program, you just put in your max and it tells you what to do.

Then do 50 chin ups after you bench, with as many sets as it takes you to get there, do face pulls for your upper back, dumbell flyes for the chest mucles and to keep your pecs healthy and maybe some side laterals if you have the energy or care.

Then, put a video up of you benching, and myself and others will help you get the form, which is by far the most important thing you need, to bench 300.

531 is very good if choose to go that route, I did it for almost a year and liked it, but I didn't make crazy gains and I feel there are more optimal ways to train. Westside is really cool, but its a program based around a bench shirt, it works for raw as well, but once again, I feel there are more optimal ways to do it. Gaining weight is always good, as long as it's good weight, but I don't know if it's necessary for you to hit 300, it will definitely help however.

Good luck and feel free to PM any questions you have at all, and don't forget to post your email.




Yes, Westside works well for raw guys, this is true.

It is not based around a bench shirt, that is a false statement.

You are a national powerlifting champion and a former strongman competitor but you are just now gunning for a 405lb bench? What weight class?

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Mathew Bertrand
Contributor

Join date: Feb 2005
Posts: 632

Chicksan wrote:
Larry10 wrote:
hey man, congrats on the 250 bench, at 16 that's very impressive.

I noticed you wanted profesional help, I'm a candian national powerlifting champion, and former professional strongman (meaning I came last at the pro shows, lol), and I'm gunning for a 405 bench right now. I know you may have wanted to hire a coach, you could PM and we could work something out, I've coached tons of kids to tons of titles now.

But in all honesty, here's what you do. put your email address on here, and I'll email you the sheiko programs. Bench was a weakness for me until i began them, and now it's becoming a stregnth. YOu'll bench 3 times a week, with working sets around 80% for verious rep ranges and have a total intensity over all sets of about 70%. Sorry if that's confusing, when you get the program, you just put in your max and it tells you what to do.

Then do 50 chin ups after you bench, with as many sets as it takes you to get there, do face pulls for your upper back, dumbell flyes for the chest mucles and to keep your pecs healthy and maybe some side laterals if you have the energy or care.

Then, put a video up of you benching, and myself and others will help you get the form, which is by far the most important thing you need, to bench 300.

531 is very good if choose to go that route, I did it for almost a year and liked it, but I didn't make crazy gains and I feel there are more optimal ways to train. Westside is really cool, but its a program based around a bench shirt, it works for raw as well, but once again, I feel there are more optimal ways to do it. Gaining weight is always good, as long as it's good weight, but I don't know if it's necessary for you to hit 300, it will definitely help however.

Good luck and feel free to PM any questions you have at all, and don't forget to post your email.




Yes, Westside works well for raw guys, this is true.

It is not based around a bench shirt, that is a false statement.

You are a national powerlifting champion and a former strongman competitor but you are just now gunning for a 405lb bench? What weight class?


lol, are you really trying to pick a fight with a guy who's trying to help a kid out?

I usually compete in the 198 or 220 class, like I said bench was a weakness until recently and honestly I didn't care about anything but my squat. What's yours?

Westside is based around a bench shirt, the guys who actually train Westside are the guys at westside, end of story, and all of those guys train to get their competition bench up. Anyone else who claims to train westside is just being silly, it's better to say they use the max effort method and dynamic method.

Now does it make sense to use a training template that doesn't even focus on what you want to do? ie, the raw bench? does it make sense for this kid to rotate his ME movements weekly and bench against bands? No, it's not optimal, he's training by himself in a commercial gym and still needs to learn how to bench. Does it make sense to follow a template that's made for a raw lifter? Forget what the russians can do, it's a raw bench program, and it's excellent. I'd say that makes sense.

Is the conjugate system extremely good at producing strength gains? absolutely, no doubt about it. But are these strength gains specific? I feel that westside lacks one extremely important factor : SKILL. It takes something like a million reps to become an expert, how often does westside perform the competition lifts? Almost never, is that really a good way for a kid to get better at benching?I've been raw squatting for 14 years, with the last 7 being more serious, and the last 5 being extremely seriously and I learn something every time. Now when I competed in multi ply, my first time wearing a double ply suit, I had a single ply best of 600, and I squatted 617.

3 weeks later I competed and squatted 700. Before I squatted 800 I didn't even put a suit or briefs on... I just raw squatted, shoulder width and below parallel. There's a reason this worked, and it's the same reason you can teach someone to box squat in 5 mminutes, but a full range squat can take a couple weeks... It's because, besides the weight a wide squat is easy.

The bench shirt is a diff sotry, and now those guy are in them every 3-4 weeks, and it would be more often if they could handle the stress I bet.

My last point, a good friend trained at westside for 6 months and came back weaker... He's squatted 1000 now... so it's not for everyone.

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Chicksan
Level 2

Join date: Dec 2011
Posts: 309

Am I trying to pick a fight with someone who is trying to help a kid out? Not in the least bit.

You made a statement that I belive is false, so I should have put, "in my honest opinion." For that, I am sorry. We can go back and forth on what programs work the best for each type of lifting and I dont really want to waste the forum space, so I will concede now. To the OP, Larry10 has given you sound advice and offered his knowledge to you for free, which is rare for an individual to do nowadays, so I would listen to him.

I didnt mean to sound like a dick, thats my bad, my apologies

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Mathew Bertrand
Contributor

Join date: Feb 2005
Posts: 632

I was really looking forward to what you had to say man, I enjoy a good spirited debate here and there. I probably got a bit touchy when you asked about my bench, lol. Take care man.

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razo530
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Join date: Oct 2012
Posts: 6

here is a video of 235.

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Mathew Bertrand
Contributor

Join date: Feb 2005
Posts: 632

hey man, nice bench, and I really like how you unracked the bar yourself, that's badass.

Your form is definitely not bad, but the good news is that you've got a ton of room for improvement despite that.

I honestly found it really hard to get a sense of your bench from that angle, but what I noticed right away is that you weren't arching nor was your upper back very tight, this will help you a ton right away and save your shoulders as well as increase your press right away. I'm going to attach a really good video that you need to watch that will explain all of this a lot better than I can.

Your wrists were rolled back quite a bit as well, this puts the bar behind your forearms and can lead to a tougher lockout, you want to keep them as straight as possible without dumping the bar.

your bar path was tough to see, but it looked like it went forward as you pressed it up, optimally the bar should be straight up and down, or even a bit towards the face at lockout.

I couldn't see much else, but here's the "So you think you can bench" video series by Dave Tate who does an amazing job covering all aspect of benching, I think simply watching this will help a ton. Make sure to watch them all.

If you could attach a few more vids from various angles getting your whole body in the vid.



Let me know if you have any questions

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LittleThuggie
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Join date: Aug 2009
Posts: 40

This is sad. What happened to young guys just going to the gym and lifting and eating a shit load? When I started in middle school, it wasn't "well, 5/3/1" or "Westside is the best side" or "5x5" or any other bull shit. I was taught (like most guys, pre-internet) to train heavy, train often, perfect technique, and eat big. That is seriously all you need to worry about for the first five years (at least)...you'll learn and pick up things along the way on your own for sure. E

very 5 seconds there is a guy on Tnation, or EliteFTS, or bbcom, and every other forum basically asking for other guys to do as much of the work for them as they possibly can. Using the internet to bat around ideas, opinions, check form, get TIPS, etc. is great...but when people say "can someone write me a complete routine to bench 300" or "I am 16, 20% body fat - can someone write me out a complete diet plan," it's fucking ridiculous.

Go do what most of us did - read books; read articles; learn through trial and error; shit like that. If you are 16, weigh damn near 200 pounds, and only bench 250, you're not even close to having exhausted your natural resources (like I stated - train hard, consistently, etc.) There are a billion articles by Louie Simmons, Dave Tate, Jim Wendler, etc. etc. etc. that you can go read. All you people do by asking questions like this online, is ask people to do all the work for you. I'm done now.

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StrengthDawg
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Join date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1555

LittleThuggie wrote:
This is sad. What happened to young guys just going to the gym and lifting and eating a shit load?


Because we live in a "everyone gets a f*cking trophy" world and there's too many people looking for the "easy path".

you mentioned reading stuff... one can't even read most training magazines now a days due to all the freaking supplement ads lol.

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dayoff
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Join date: Feb 2012
Posts: 44

Westside is based around a bench shirt, the guys who actually train Westside are the guys at westside, end of story, and all of those guys train to get their competition bench up. Anyone else who claims to train westside is just being silly, it's better to say they use the max effort method and dynamic method.

Now does it make sense to use a training template that doesn't even focus on what you want to do? ie, the raw bench? does it make sense for this kid to rotate his ME movements weekly and bench against bands? No, it's not optimal, he's training by himself in a commercial gym and still needs to learn how to bench. Does it make sense to follow a template that's made for a raw lifter? Forget what the russians can do, it's a raw bench program, and it's excellent. I'd say that makes sense.Westside is based around a bench shirt, the guys who actually train Westside are the guys at westside, end of story, and all of those guys train to get their competition bench up. Anyone else who claims to train westside is just being silly, it's better to say they use the max effort method and dynamic method.

I know your a professional and all Larry, but I feel you may be mistaken.

Travis Bell increased his raw bench from 365 to 565, while at the same time increased his shirted bench from 405 to 805. He did this in a 2 1/2 year period and he trains at Westside

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budreiser
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Join date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1522

dayoff wrote:
Westside is based around a bench shirt, the guys who actually train Westside are the guys at westside, end of story, and all of those guys train to get their competition bench up. Anyone else who claims to train westside is just being silly, it's better to say they use the max effort method and dynamic method.

Now does it make sense to use a training template that doesn't even focus on what you want to do? ie, the raw bench? does it make sense for this kid to rotate his ME movements weekly and bench against bands? No, it's not optimal, he's training by himself in a commercial gym and still needs to learn how to bench. Does it make sense to follow a template that's made for a raw lifter? Forget what the russians can do, it's a raw bench program, and it's excellent. I'd say that makes sense.Westside is based around a bench shirt, the guys who actually train Westside are the guys at westside, end of story, and all of those guys train to get their competition bench up. Anyone else who claims to train westside is just being silly, it's better to say they use the max effort method and dynamic method.

I know your a professional and all Larry, but I feel you may be mistaken.

Travis Bell increased his raw bench from 365 to 565, while at the same time increased his shirted bench from 405 to 805. He did this in a 2 1/2 year period and he trains at Westside


i train using the conjugate method and my raw bench has shot up over the past month from 265x1 to 265x5.

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Fletch1986
Level 3

Join date: Aug 2007
Posts: 4882

You should post more Larry. I did Westside style training for a couple of years and my gains were extremely sporadic. Now that I'm doing just the main lifts, I'm making a lot of progress. How often do you squat, bench, and deadlift in the off season?

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dayoff
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Join date: Feb 2012
Posts: 44

You should post more Larry. I did Westside style training for a couple of years and my gains were extremely sporadic. Now that I'm doing just the main lifts, I'm making a lot of progress. How often do you squat, bench, and deadlift in the off season?

Fletch1986. If your gains were sporadic. There were times when you made gains. It would have been in your best interests to find out what made you make the gains you did and use whatever was working more and not use the things that weren't working,at that time.

That's one of the basics of the conjugate systems. Take what is usefull and use it until it's not working anymore. Then identify your weaknesses at that time and find exercises to build your weakpoints.

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VTTrainer
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Join date: Feb 2011
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Speed work on the bench, between 50% to 75% trying to perfect my form helped a TON for me. Actually more than max effort over 90% did (missed max bench sets by bad scheduling and missed those days, just did a ton of DE work)
Also, I was my heaviest then, 198. my best press was 275, which is great for me bc I've always had shoulder problems, so take all that for what it's worth.
Perfect your technique so that you can recover better, and not end up with crappy shoulders. Good luck man

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black_angus1
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Join date: May 2009
Posts: 836

Why wasn't the first answer "get stronger"?

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Fletch1986
Level 3

Join date: Aug 2007
Posts: 4882

dayoff wrote:
You should post more Larry. I did Westside style training for a couple of years and my gains were extremely sporadic. Now that I'm doing just the main lifts, I'm making a lot of progress. How often do you squat, bench, and deadlift in the off season?

Fletch1986. If your gains were sporadic. There were times when you made gains. It would have been in your best interests to find out what made you make the gains you did and use whatever was working more and not use the things that weren't working,at that time.

That's one of the basics of the conjugate systems. Take what is usefull and use it until it's not working anymore. Then identify your weaknesses at that time and find exercises to build your weakpoints.


Of course, I recognize that's the philosophy of the system and that's what I tried, but as soon as I found out what worked, it didn't work again when I replicated it again and I was back to square one in figuring what worked or didn't.

I gave it a good two years and it wasn't my thing. I'm having much better luck doing the RE work with the main lifts with a little speed work too than with the Westside style of training so I'm sticking with it.

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Mathew Bertrand
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Join date: Feb 2005
Posts: 632

dayoff wrote:
Westside is based around a bench shirt, the guys who actually train Westside are the guys at westside, end of story, and all of those guys train to get their competition bench up. Anyone else who claims to train westside is just being silly, it's better to say they use the max effort method and dynamic method.

Now does it make sense to use a training template that doesn't even focus on what you want to do? ie, the raw bench? does it make sense for this kid to rotate his ME movements weekly and bench against bands? No, it's not optimal, he's training by himself in a commercial gym and still needs to learn how to bench. Does it make sense to follow a template that's made for a raw lifter? Forget what the russians can do, it's a raw bench program, and it's excellent. I'd say that makes sense.Westside is based around a bench shirt, the guys who actually train Westside are the guys at westside, end of story, and all of those guys train to get their competition bench up. Anyone else who claims to train westside is just being silly, it's better to say they use the max effort method and dynamic method.

I know your a professional and all Larry, but I feel you may be mistaken.

Travis Bell increased his raw bench from 365 to 565, while at the same time increased his shirted bench from 405 to 805. He did this in a 2 1/2 year period and he trains at Westside


Hey man, I agree, Travis Bell is an awesome lifter... but he's also an EXPERIENCED lifter... a new kid has no business training westside. Travis got simply stronger, he has shirt and raw form. this kid has no shirt.

I guess I should have made it clearer that newbies have no business doing anything but the basics.

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Mathew Bertrand
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Join date: Feb 2005
Posts: 632

Fletch1986 wrote:
You should post more Larry. I did Westside style training for a couple of years and my gains were extremely sporadic. Now that I'm doing just the main lifts, I'm making a lot of progress. How often do you squat, bench, and deadlift in the off season?



Hey man, I follow the sheiko programs right now, so squat 2x, deadlift 1x bench 3x... I also do a ton of upper back and glute/ham work... I don't really pay attention to sets and reps for those, I just treat them like an arm workout and pump the shit out of them.

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Mathew Bertrand
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Join date: Feb 2005
Posts: 632

black_angus1 wrote:
Why wasn't the first answer "get stronger"?


because there's more to it than simply getting stronger

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razo530
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Join date: Oct 2012
Posts: 6

I decided to do smolov jr. I will post results in a month from monday .Until then no more posting
and more eating.

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animus
Level 2

Join date: Jun 2009
Posts: 348

razo530 wrote:
here is a video of 235.


1) Wrists are too far back, so the bar isn't directly over your forearms / not a direct line of power / loss of mechanical efficiency

2) Get on your upper back

3) Arch tighter

4) Need more leg drive

5) Can't tell exactly from that angle, but it doesn't look like you go all the way down. Even if that was a touch-and-go, it's too light of a touch

6) Doesn't look like you're "tearing the bar apart" or "bending it backwards" / tightness across the bar doesn't seem to be there

It's a good bench, but there's a lot of technique work to be fixed. Once you dial your technique in, you'll be hitting some pretty major PRs.

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