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Dips vs Bench
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rich44
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Join date: Nov 2002
Location: New Mexico, USA
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brads1111 wrote:
Hello all,

I'm sure that most of you will say that bench is key. What about the shoulder pain to be had. Also, if one is to add their bodyweight to the weight hanging from them is that equal to the weight that they would then be able to bench?

Personally I just do dips.

Pzz


One can get shoulder pain from dips too. Personally I feel it is easier to hurt one's shoulder from dips than bench. Also the answer to your question is No. Example: I weigh 220 Lbs and I can do a set of 8 reps with 115 Lbs strapped to me but I can not even bench 335 once. If you care about how much you can bench then bench.

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john-lennon
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you are using many more muscles to assist with your dip then a bench, thats why you can do more on a dip

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Synthesize
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Join date: Feb 2005
Location: Texas, USA
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Actually if you dip and neglect bench you WILL lose bench strength even if you gain on dips. A year back, I didn't bench for 2-3 months when I was doing o-lifting, and I thought I could depend on dips to keep my strength up, but when I went back to benching, I was shaking like a leaf just trying to bench 135. I had maxed 255 before.

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jlesk68
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Synthesize wrote:
Actually if you dip and neglect bench you WILL lose bench strength even if you gain on dips. A year back, I didn't bench for 2-3 months when I was doing o-lifting, and I thought I could depend on dips to keep my strength up, but when I went back to benching, I was shaking like a leaf just trying to bench 135. I had maxed 255 before.


Nobody asks, "Hey, how much can you dip?"

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jsbrook
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Join date: Mar 2005
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 9714

jlesk68 wrote:
Synthesize wrote:
Actually if you dip and neglect bench you WILL lose bench strength even if you gain on dips. A year back, I didn't bench for 2-3 months when I was doing o-lifting, and I thought I could depend on dips to keep my strength up, but when I went back to benching, I was shaking like a leaf just trying to bench 135. I had maxed 255 before.

Nobody asks, "Hey, how much can you dip?"


One good enough reason to do dips.

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TDog305
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I have much more pronounced shoulder pain doing dips than benching.

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beebuddy
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Three solutions for benching shoulder pain.

1. Use dumbells instead.

2. Use power-lifting form (elblows pointed towards knees) as opposed to body-builder form (elbows flared out to the sides.)

3. Use a Smith machine.

Dips are a different beast altogether, do both.

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jcharles
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In an effort to correct the shoulder pain during bench you should clean up your form. there was a recent article on this subject.

Next, dips and chin-ups are the upper body equivalent of squats and deadlfits.

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GDollars37
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TDog305 wrote:
I have much more pronounced shoulder pain doing dips than benching.


Likewise.

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jlesk68
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brads1111 wrote:
It's true that no one asks how much ya dip but I feel like the numbers are similar. In terms of building the upper body I feel the dip is equal and if ya fail ya can just bail. Ya can just let go or put your feet down. With the bench ya end up having to get a good spotter. A good spotter is hard to find.

Thanks for your two cents.

P.S. It really is true that no one asks "How much ya dip?" People ask me how much I bench and I have to explain that I only do dips and just say that it's somewhere over 320 lbs. I honestly get more growth out of the weighted dips. Additionally, I can do negative dips and with the bench that just isn't the most safe thing.


I hear you, then you may want to hit the bench not going over 90% of your max, and then kill it with the dips.

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eisenaffe
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Don't want to open another thread, so I ask it here.

Is it necessary to do bb-bentover rows to balance out the pressing movement of the benchpress or would pullups/chinups suffice?

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beebuddy
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You can do seated rows.

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Antman517
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brads1111 wrote:
It's true that no one asks how much ya dip but I feel like the numbers are similar. In terms of building the upper body I feel the dip is equal and if ya fail ya can just bail.
People ask me how much I bench and I have to explain that I only do dips and just say that it's somewhere over 320 lbs.


Dips and bench are not even close to being the same thing. Dips are primarily a tricep movement (with minimal pec/shoulder assistance) whereas benching heaviliy involves the chest, triceps shoulder, lats, back, traps, and even legs...if you are doing it right. For you to tell people that you can do about 320 benching based on dipping your bwt plus hanging weight is simply inflating your real bench number greatly. You'd probably get stapled to the bench if you put that weight on the bar.

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Antman517
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john-lennon wrote:
you are using many more muscles to assist with your dip then a bench, thats why you can do more on a dip


Are you frikkin' kidding me? Check your physiology again...

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terribleivan
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Join date: Nov 2005
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beebuddy wrote:
Three solutions for benching shoulder pain.

1. Use dumbells instead.

2. Use power-lifting form (elblows pointed towards knees) as opposed to body-builder form (elbows flared out to the sides.)

3. Use a Smith machine.

Dips are a different beast altogether, do both.


4. Do close-grips instead

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beebuddy
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"Close grips"

Havn't tried those recently. I had shoulder pain, but Robertson's articles led me to the 'powerlifter' form which has helped.

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AJL-1240
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Join date: May 2005
Location: New York, USA
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brads1111 wrote:
Antman517 wrote:
brads1111 wrote:
It's true that no one asks how much ya dip but I feel like the numbers are similar. In terms of building the upper body I feel the dip is equal and if ya fail ya can just bail.
People ask me how much I bench and I have to explain that I only do dips and just say that it's somewhere over 320 lbs.

Dips and bench are not even close to being the same thing. Dips are primarily a tricep movement (with minimal pec/shoulder assistance) whereas benching heaviliy involves the chest, triceps shoulder, lats, back, traps, and even legs...if you are doing it right. For you to tell people that you can do about 320 benching based on dipping your bwt plus hanging weight is simply inflating your real bench number greatly. You'd probably get stapled to the bench if you put that weight on the bar.



Yo,

I'm an adult fitness major. Dips and bench are similar. Why do people have to be insulting? You're calling me a liar and saying I'm weak. You have never seen me and have no idea what I can put up. I tell them it is somewhere over 320 because I know I can easily do that. I am being a bit modest but, I really don't know how much as I don't max out nor do I care. Three hundred and fifteen lbs would not "staple" me to the bench.

I have never seen the staple machine at my gym. Maybe it's at the hardware store across the street...Hmm, I'll look into it. Maybe if I staple myself to the bench I can be big and strong enough to be an internet tough guy like you when I grow up. At a bodyweight of 260 lbs I was hanging 45 lbs from me on the dip and using a 4 second up, 4 second down cadence.

When I went with more of a 2/2 I was attaching 90 lbs. Clearly I am an awesome internet tough guy although maybe now as much as you. Excuse me now I have some 8-year-olds to push into the mud hopefully none of them have coodies.


Well, you can always prove him wrong by trying to see where your max might be (or even what it might be close to if you don't want to try a 1RM) take a video of it and post it.

Otherwise, anyone can say they can do any amount of weight with any exercise on the internet, you know what I mean?

I'm not saying you can't, but at the same time I have no reason to believe that you can either.

I used to guess my deadlift max by comparing it to my squat. I guessed my dl to be about 75lbs heavier than it actually was.

Personally, improving in dips never translated very well into improving bench for me.

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iksrtfo28
Level 4

Join date: Aug 2005
Location: Ontario, CAN
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I always noticed more gains in size, and strength from dips, rather then bench. I found my tris, shoulders and chest all took a beating.

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rg73
Level 3

Join date: Jul 2004
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 148

Antman517 wrote:
Dips and bench are not even close to being the same thing.


Uh yeah, they are.

Dips are primarily a tricep movement (with minimal pec/shoulder assistance) whereas benching heaviliy involves the chest, triceps shoulder, lats, back, traps, and even legs...if you are doing it right.


Uh, dips are always compound movements. Whether it is triceps dominant or pec dominant depends on hand placement, doesn't it? There are tricep dips and chest dips. It also depends on the depth of your dip, doesn't it? You can involve more shoulder if you go lower. But dips, regardless, are compound movements.

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john-lennon
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exactly antman dips are big compound movements which work more muscles then just benching alone

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Magarhe
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If you are a fitness major then you should be well aware that no two movements have a ~direct~ correlation. And if you are studying a scientific field then you should be using scientific method - hypothesis, experiment, observable and reproducible results. So get in the frikkin' gym and see what your bench is and tell us the comparison to your dip.

[turns off angry lecturer mode]

I think dips AND bench are both good. However if you are experiencing shoulder pain / damage (or any pain / damage) doing either then you need to change what you are doing, whether that be change the movement, do another movement, take a rest from the movement. That is the fundamental law of working out.

The fundamental law is NOT "it hurt once therefore it is crap for everybody and must be avoided".


And similarly, applying the "it is a crap movement" law and coming up with the "this different movement is therefore just as good" idea is just nuts.

Having said all that I like dips and also, mantle-shelf dips, which is a climbing move where your hands are in front of you, bringing you up over the edge of a cliff, sort of a "frontal dip", it is a natural movement - we are designed to do it as opposed to a normal dip, where in nature do you find two parallel objects to dip up on, rarely even in the trees.

The mantle shelf is kind of between a dip and a decline bench press, and a pushup. In my opinion it is exactly what our muscles are designed for, based on our apelike arboreal heritage. For climbing up rocky mountains or getting to the top of a branch it is essential. I find it hard to imagine ancestors ever needing to bench press or in fact do dips (as opposed to frontal dips, or mantle shelf).




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chicanerous
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Join date: Jun 2005
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It's likely you're going to be able to dip more than you bench. In terms of total weight used:

Dips > Decline Bench > Flat Bench > Incline Bench > Overhead Press

I could see things possibly being different with a well developed powerlifter, however.

Training dips is not necessarily going to preclude you from shoulder pain, but it's worth a shot.

I've found I can nearly maintain my bench press strength for long periods of time (6+ months) by only training dips (allowing a short 2-3 week phase to reacclimate myself to the bench press movement neurally).

If you specialize on overhead pressing, it's a good idea to replace the majority of your bench pressing with dips.

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limericklummox
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Join date: Dec 2004
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i used to dip not now. long head bicep tendon gets f***ed from them esp. weighted. 5 yrs ago i benched 120kg and dipped 4reps w/80kg attached on! now i can bench 190kg and am way bigger and stronger. that doesn't just go for me. many many lifters i know are fine till they start getting strong at dips then shoulder trouble starts. usually rotator cuff/bicep tendon.(w/ all RoMs not just deep) bench is great once technique is powerlifter style w/ arch/tuck etc
board presses are a galiziollion times better tricep builder than dips.

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Ryu13
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Do both.

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Hawkson101
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I got huge from German Volume Training 10x10 dip routine when I did it last year. But, now I have a hsoulder problem. So, whats the verdict-whats less detrimental-dips or dumbell correct form bench?

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