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531 Doesnt Add Up
 

bulldog9899
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bigmac73nh wrote:

Apparently OP's BW is 285... it's not that hard to get to a 1.25-1.5xBW bench while doing things wrong, in my experience.

And you've done how many Meets and in which Fed? obviously you have since your posting your opinion in the PL section. Obviously your doing over 380 on the bench which gives you the right to down play someones else accomplishment and hard work.

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bulldog9899
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MrEdofCourse wrote:
been on the 531 for 2 years now, problem is on bench I can always do the 3rd week easy but the 1st is always hard.. Im not gaining strength anymore.. Ex. i set my maxes higher bc after completing the 3rd week I always hit the last set for 3. if I set my max to that , i can not complete the last set of the 1st week.. anyone have this problem?

I need to get on something for bench strength and for what ever reason this isnt working anymore, for example, today on my 3rd week it called for the last set of 1 rep at 330, i did 335(dont like 2.5's) and then went to 365, and to 385 for 1... What routine can I do just for bench to go up.. my last max was 380 before i got the flu in december..

ideas or welcome

First , what is your current training Max on Bench. Second you cant expect regular gains at your current level. The only people whom get big gain regularly are beginners and intermediates levels

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bigmac73nh
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VTBalla34 wrote:
bigmac73nh wrote:
GruntOrama wrote:
How does one get that strong without understanding basic programming or knowing what makes them stronger in the first place?


Apparently OP's BW is 285... it's not that hard to get to a 1.25-1.5xBW bench while doing things wrong, in my experience.


lol 6'4 285 is quite a bit different than 5'9 285. Not even talking arm length here, which is tough for guys our height, but that weight alone is more spread out such that 285 really isn't even taht "hyoooge". A 385 bench is not unimpressive no matter who you are, IMO.


Ah shit I meant to say while doing SOME things wrong. I understand that arm length and the distribution of mass throughout the larger frame make serious bench numbers for extremely tall dudes more impressive.

385 is not unimpressive by any means, I was just suggesting that it isn't unbelievable for someone to achieve bench numbers around 1.25-1.5xBW without doing everything right. Could have been way clearer about that lol, but if anyone still thinks that's an absurd statement then I guess agree to disagree.

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StrengthDawg
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DoubleDuce wrote:
StrengthDawg wrote:
I'm sure I'll get flamed for this but IDC... I bought Wendler's book and did it verbatim. I was coming of of a "West-Side" routine so I knew my actual 1 rms. I dropped a little weight off of those and calculated 90% of that so I'd have room to grow. Well, I got good a repping light shit. When I tried to "Max" to see if I had improved, I got stapled with a weight I used to be able to do for an somewhat easy triple. Thinking that I had fucked up somewhere I "reset" and started over. A few cycles later same shit... weaker. Went back to a congugate system and haven't looked back.

"Wendler" works well for a lot of people but I didn't enjoy it and it didn't seem to work for me for the 8 months that I did it. If I ever get into Crossfit or some shit where I need to rep the shit out of light weights this may work great for me.


So you were maxing out repeatedly after doing your regular 5/3/1 sets?

If you were doing it after your 5/3/1 sets, no-shit you'd be weaker, you should be tired. If you were doing it some other time, you weren�¢??t doing 5/3/1.



Yeah no shit DD lol fuck bro give a guy SOME credit..., let me clarify. I'd did 5-3-1 for 3-4 cycles. Then I would intentionally go for a MAX to see where I was at. This wasn't some snap decision in the middle of a training session. I started out to set a PR on each exercise. Here's my numbers. Feel free to pick at it and tell me where I fucked up. ha

I had bench 395 when I started this BUT I used 385 as my max and calculated 90% of that as a starting point. That puts my training max at 335#. My "5" week got me 285#, my "3" week got me 300# and my "1" week was 320. After a few cycles I worked up to getting 320 x 8. I plug my numbers into the 1 rm estimater and it reads that my max is around 410. So I decide to see if that was accurate.I set out to max after a deload week to ensure I was fresh. Well I ended up getting stapled with 365 I believe. So yeah I don't know how the fuck I could press 320 for 8 but fail at 365. So I chalked it up to a bad day. Ran a few more cycles and did it again. Some shit only this time I bombed out with 355 if I remember correctly. Shit just didn't groove well for me. I got a buddy who kicking ass with it..

On a side note a week ago Wednesday I benched 365 for a quick double. ( I quit there because I have a torn Labrum and I'm a bit worried about fucking it up more, so I don't go "all out" much)

And don't let my experience discourage anyone from doing 5-3-1 it's a great program all I'm saying is that it didn't work for me.

DoubleDuce wrote:If you were doing it some other time, you weren�¢??t doing 5/3/1.


So what about the guy who does 5-3-1 and then does a meet where he or she "maxes" are they not doing 5-3-1 either. So you mean to tell me that if a guy trys to max every now and then to see if they have made gains they have sunk the program? Sure if one maxes every 3 weeks then I'd agree with you but maxing once evry 4-5 months? come on....

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bigmac73nh
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bulldog9899 wrote:
bigmac73nh wrote:

Apparently OP's BW is 285... it's not that hard to get to a 1.25-1.5xBW bench while doing things wrong, in my experience.

And you've done how many Meets and in which Fed? obviously you have since your posting your opinion in the PL section. Obviously your doing over 380 on the bench which gives you the right to down play someones else accomplishment and hard work.


I just clarified my statement in the other post. I never claimed to bench over 380 and I never claimed to have competed, but in fairness OP didn't specify that he was talking about competition numbers and from the context it seems that he was in fact talking about training numbers.

I wasn't advising OP on meets because I have no clue where to even begin on that front. My benching isn't seriously impressive or anything, but I've hit 350 in training at a BW of ~205 so I like to think I'm not completely clueless either.

I didn't mean to be condescending, and I'm sorry if it came out that way. I was responding to a statement that actually seems more condescending than what I posted.

EDIT: And I'll gladly stop posting in the PL forum. Peace.

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mkral55
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Why hasnt the OP responded yet?

There's been a few valid points brought up, but no additional info given. Makes it tough to give good advice.

Anyways, my two cents (My bench is right about where yours is, so I dunno if its worth too much, but why not):
If you are "easily" getting 3 on your 1+ set every cycle, there's no damn way you aren't getting stronger. It might be as little as a couple pounds per month, is all.

Also, I would highly recommend you use the 2.5s. IMO this is a huge facet of 5/3/1, to target a wide range of weights and hit PR's. A 5 pound PR is a PR.

And lastly, I have the same issue with the 5's set. I'm almost certain it's mental. It's a weight that is heavy enough to be somewhere around an 8-10RM, but it's light weight compared to your max, so it gets in your head. Also I feel weaker coming off a deload.

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gorangers0525
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As much as I love 5/3/1..saying it's the program of all programs is stupid. Do what makes you stronger.

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TigerTime
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You've done 5/3/1 for 2 years straight? Maybe it's time to try a new program.

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VTBalla34
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It sounds like your CNS just isn't accustomed to the heavy loads anymore. That is why I prefer the 5-3-1 for Powerlifting setup (which is basically 3-5-1). You can do some heavy singles in your new 1st and 3rd weeks, with a "medium" weight (no extra reps) in your 2nd week to keep you fresh.

I use this for two months leading up to a meet and it worked pretty well last time. Starting my second run at it next week for my June meet.

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kpsnap
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VTBalla34 wrote:
It sounds like your CNS just isn't accustomed to the heavy loads anymore. That is why I prefer the 5-3-1 for Powerlifting setup (which is basically 3-5-1). You can do some heavy singles in your new 1st and 3rd weeks, with a "medium" weight (no extra reps) in your 2nd week to keep you fresh.


This does seem like a better program for those who want to step on the platform. I know from my own training experience that submaximal training for reps does not always boost my 1 RM. But the PLing version does add in the heavy singles that keep the body, and mind, in the groove to handle the heavier weights.

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VTBalla34
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kpsnap wrote:
VTBalla34 wrote:
It sounds like your CNS just isn't accustomed to the heavy loads anymore. That is why I prefer the 5-3-1 for Powerlifting setup (which is basically 3-5-1). You can do some heavy singles in your new 1st and 3rd weeks, with a "medium" weight (no extra reps) in your 2nd week to keep you fresh.


This does seem like a better program for those who want to step on the platform. I know from my own training experience that submaximal training for reps does not always boost my 1 RM. But the PLing version does add in the heavy singles that keep the body, and mind, in the groove to handle the heavier weights.


Yeah for sure. I feel like I'm at point in my development where I am still getting the benefit of multiple, higher reps a la 5-3-1 prescription. This definitely helps my 1RM, but that gain is not realized until I actually practice 1RM's, if that makes sense.

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Sutebun
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TigerTime wrote:
You've done 5/3/1 for 2 years straight? Maybe it's time to try a new program.


Can't believe it took until the second page for someone to say it.

Dude...go and experiment with different lifting styles/programs.

Seriously. You need to push your body and test it in different ways, find out what works for you.

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Boffin
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If I were the OP I would:
Reset training max
Examine recovery, including ensuring the deload week is really a deload
make sure I hadn't added a ton of extra shit
THEN
consider moving to the 3/5/1 variant, with added singles (get back in touch with heavier weights) after the work sets on 3+ and 1+ days.
Consider adding one or two 'volume sets after the work sets. (see second edition)

Try something else completly different then come back to 5/3/1 or 3/5/1.

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T11
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I wouldn't do 5/3/1 for a while if I were you. I tried it out for a month and my bench dropped 10 pounds. That was very frustrating for me after having great increases in the previous 3 months. Ever consider doing 5x5 with a pyramid effect. Make the third set the hardest, the second and 4th should be right around the same weight and the 5th can be as heavy as the third or slightly less. I increased my bench 30 pounds in 6 weeks doing that, just a suggestion.

I really don't understand deloading, that doesn't mean I don't see people's reasoning behind it or the science, I just believe you can push your body harder than most people believe. I don't know your age but while your young you can push your body harder. I am 21 years old why would I deload? If your body can take it switch to a harder program where you can keep pushing yourself. Maybe 6 days a week, do 3 speeds days and 3 power days.

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DoubleDuce
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StrengthDawg wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
StrengthDawg wrote:
I'm sure I'll get flamed for this but IDC... I bought Wendler's book and did it verbatim. I was coming of of a "West-Side" routine so I knew my actual 1 rms. I dropped a little weight off of those and calculated 90% of that so I'd have room to grow. Well, I got good a repping light shit. When I tried to "Max" to see if I had improved, I got stapled with a weight I used to be able to do for an somewhat easy triple. Thinking that I had fucked up somewhere I "reset" and started over. A few cycles later same shit... weaker. Went back to a congugate system and haven't looked back.

"Wendler" works well for a lot of people but I didn't enjoy it and it didn't seem to work for me for the 8 months that I did it. If I ever get into Crossfit or some shit where I need to rep the shit out of light weights this may work great for me.


So you were maxing out repeatedly after doing your regular 5/3/1 sets?

If you were doing it after your 5/3/1 sets, no-shit you'd be weaker, you should be tired. If you were doing it some other time, you weren�??�?�¢??t doing 5/3/1.



Yeah no shit DD lol fuck bro give a guy SOME credit..., let me clarify. I'd did 5-3-1 for 3-4 cycles. Then I would intentionally go for a MAX to see where I was at. This wasn't some snap decision in the middle of a training session. I started out to set a PR on each exercise. Here's my numbers. Feel free to pick at it and tell me where I fucked up. ha

I had bench 395 when I started this BUT I used 385 as my max and calculated 90% of that as a starting point. That puts my training max at 335#.


345 but thatâ??s fine.



My "5" week got me 285#, my "3" week got me 300# and my "1" week was 320. After a few cycles I worked up to getting 320 x 8.


If my math is right, if your initial max was 385, after 2 cycles, you should have been using 340 on your 1 week, but it sounds like you were using 20 pounds less than you were supposed to. Were you not adding weight each cycle? This is what I was getting at, your math doesn't seem right. If youâ??d done the straight math from the book, using your known 395, you'd have been at 345.



I plug my numbers into the 1 rm estimater and it reads that my max is around 410. So I decide to see if that was accurate.I set out to max after a deload week to ensure I was fresh. Well I ended up getting stapled with 365 I believe. So yeah I don't know how the fuck I could press 320 for 8 but fail at 365. So I chalked it up to a bad day. Ran a few more cycles and did it again. Some shit only this time I bombed out with 355 if I remember correctly. Shit just didn't groove well for me. I got a buddy who kicking ass with it..

On a side note a week ago Wednesday I benched 365 for a quick double. ( I quit there because I have a torn Labrum and I'm a bit worried about fucking it up more, so I don't go "all out" much)

And don't let my experience discourage anyone from doing 5-3-1 it's a great program all I'm saying is that it didn't work for me.

DoubleDuce wrote:If you were doing it some other time, you weren�??�?�¢??t doing 5/3/1.


So what about the guy who does 5-3-1 and then does a meet where he or she "maxes" are they not doing 5-3-1 either. So you mean to tell me that if a guy trys to max every now and then to see if they have made gains they have sunk the program? Sure if one maxes every 3 weeks then I'd agree with you but maxing once evry 4-5 months? come on....


Not when you're doing the meet. You're doing a meet, not 5/3/1. It sounding like you were maxing out every cycle or something, just needed clarification.

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Teledin
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kpsnap wrote:
I don't understand why some people believe that there's a one-size-fits-all program out there that everyone will have success with. If that were the case, every damn powerlifter would follow it. I know a number of people who have followed 531 and not made gains. To the OP, maybe it's time to shake up your programming with something new. You can always return to 531.


Agree with you but from I have seen the vast majority of people who complain about any program not working generally haven't adapted their assistance work according to what they need to focus on. For example; focusing on lockout strength (because they can't lockout the weight) when the real problem is their lower torso just not being able to handle the load - usually attributable to the kind of lower torso training (or lack thereof) past and present.

No program is one size fits all, but the overwhelming majority should make progress on any program with sensible programming, which 5/3/1 very much is.

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Caltene
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531 is massively overrated.

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MrEdofCourse
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Sorry guys been away for a week.. Everyone has made valid points. I think I will mix it up after this cycle. Teledin no harm man. Your 1st post did piss me off though but its all good man, glad you clarified it. Anyways I posted another new thread today about 531, i think its come down to like a few have said, change it up a while, Im the type that likes to follow a book etc, 531 did that for me. I went up 40 pounds in my bench in 2 yrs and 50 in my squat, so it does work, Ive just gotta search a new routine, so recommendations are welcome.

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The-German
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State some maxes and what you feel are your weak points and/or what you simply want to be stronger in. It would be best to find a program built toward your needs.

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scj119
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MrEdofCourse wrote: today on my 3rd week it called for the last set of 1 rep at 330, i did 335(dont like 2.5's) and then went to 365, and to 385 for 1


That is not 5/3/1. Why are you complaining about 5/3/1?

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MrEdofCourse
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scj119 wrote:
MrEdofCourse wrote: today on my 3rd week it called for the last set of 1 rep at 330, i did 335(dont like 2.5's) and then went to 365, and to 385 for 1


That is not 5/3/1. Why are you complaining about 5/3/1?


Why would someone want to do the last set of the program if its not challenging? You would think that if you was going to accurately gauge your progress your last single set would be difficult so the next cycle that would go up.. SO i basically did go by the 5/3/1 i just tried to find a challenging weight that I can shoot for the next cycle. Is the 3rd week of the cycle not suppose to be challenging? Is it weird my body thinks the 1st week is harder than the 3rd? Obviously not since Im not the only one who feels this way.. Maybe your body is different, i just stated my problems with the system man.

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VTBalla34
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MrEdofCourse wrote:
scj119 wrote:
MrEdofCourse wrote: today on my 3rd week it called for the last set of 1 rep at 330, i did 335(dont like 2.5's) and then went to 365, and to 385 for 1


That is not 5/3/1. Why are you complaining about 5/3/1?


Why would someone want to do the last set of the program if its not challenging? You would think that if you was going to accurately gauge your progress your last single set would be difficult so the next cycle that would go up.. SO i basically did go by the 5/3/1 i just tried to find a challenging weight that I can shoot for the next cycle. Is the 3rd week of the cycle not suppose to be challenging? Is it weird my body thinks the 1st week is harder than the 3rd? Obviously not since Im not the only one who feels this way.. Maybe your body is different, i just stated my problems with the system man.



You do know that you're supposed to do one OR MORE reps, right? Basically, as many as you can. it can be as challenging as you want to make it.

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MrEdofCourse
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VTBalla34 wrote:
MrEdofCourse wrote:
scj119 wrote:
MrEdofCourse wrote: today on my 3rd week it called for the last set of 1 rep at 330, i did 335(dont like 2.5's) and then went to 365, and to 385 for 1


That is not 5/3/1. Why are you complaining about 5/3/1?


Why would someone want to do the last set of the program if its not challenging? You would think that if you was going to accurately gauge your progress your last single set would be difficult so the next cycle that would go up.. SO i basically did go by the 5/3/1 i just tried to find a challenging weight that I can shoot for the next cycle. Is the 3rd week of the cycle not suppose to be challenging? Is it weird my body thinks the 1st week is harder than the 3rd? Obviously not since Im not the only one who feels this way.. Maybe your body is different, i just stated my problems with the system man.



You do know that you're supposed to do one OR MORE reps, right? Basically, as many as you can. it can be as challenging as you want to make it.

Yea I know but in my mind this is suppose to be a single set of a new PR..

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scj119
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MrEdofCourse wrote:
VTBalla34 wrote:
MrEdofCourse wrote:
scj119 wrote:
MrEdofCourse wrote: today on my 3rd week it called for the last set of 1 rep at 330, i did 335(dont like 2.5's) and then went to 365, and to 385 for 1


That is not 5/3/1. Why are you complaining about 5/3/1?


Why would someone want to do the last set of the program if its not challenging? You would think that if you was going to accurately gauge your progress your last single set would be difficult so the next cycle that would go up.. SO i basically did go by the 5/3/1 i just tried to find a challenging weight that I can shoot for the next cycle. Is the 3rd week of the cycle not suppose to be challenging? Is it weird my body thinks the 1st week is harder than the 3rd? Obviously not since Im not the only one who feels this way.. Maybe your body is different, i just stated my problems with the system man.



You do know that you're supposed to do one OR MORE reps, right? Basically, as many as you can. it can be as challenging as you want to make it.

Yea I know but in my mind this is suppose to be a single set of a new PR..



OK, so you changed the program and it didn't work. If you aren't doing it as written then it isn't the program's fault.

I have no particular love for 5/3/1 I just hate when people tweak a program to make it more like how they want to work out, then blame lack of success on the program. If you aren't doing the program, it isn't the programs fault.

Trying to hit a new 1RM every time you hit 1's week is the EXACT OPPOSITE of Wendler's philosophy.

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StrengthDawg
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.

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