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SteelyD
Level 4

Join date: Jun 2007
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 12051

Here's a post of mine from the "Lumbar Stability Thread". Not too much has changed since 08:

You and your doc, PT, etc. must evaluate what load you can place on your body.

I went 3 months before I squatted a 10# dumbbell. I started with BW squats (sloow), BW lunges, BW stepups, BW 1-leg deadlifts, suitcase DB deadlifts (1 and 2 arm), lots of walking, and lots of mobility drills. Then, I progressed to holding a stability ball in front of me and/or over my head and squatting. Then medicine ball. etc.

I can only speak to my personal experience and my condition, but given the angle of the injury (ie posterior compression > anterior compression), the leverage of front and side loaded (ie with dumbbells) loaded squats were more comfortable than backloaded squats. At about 10 months post-recovery, my front squat was greater than my back squat-- perhaps that was more 'mental' than 'phyiscal', but I'm better for it with a stronger core.

I was very clear with my chiro what my goals were for recovery, and that "You'll never squat again" was not an option. I've posted this several times here: Don't be afraid to 'interview' your doctors to find one that understands your healing goals. I talked to several until I found my current one. She was a collegiate and current athelete, and holds a CSCS. She's not thrilled that I want to go as heavy as I do, but she understands and supports the goal.

Some days I wake up and frankly my back feels like shit all day some days not. I've re-trained myself to do things differently: I squat down to tie my shoes and pick things up (like kids do naturally). I lower DBs to the floor like a suitcase DL and pick them up the same. Etc. Sounds like overkill, but my squats have never been deeper and my form never so good.

Sorry for the long post, but it's hard to explain without giving some context because all of our conditions are unique, so there really is no *one* answer-- you MUST listen to your body.

Here's another example: I started a thread in the "Strength Sports" section asking about how to progress from DB rows because I maxed out the weight at my gym. A lot of the answers were "BO BB Rows", which I already do, but probably not as heavy as I could. It just happens that at that angle, I really feel the shear in my back, especially keeping good form.

It's hard to convey the whole history why there's such a disparity between the two rows, but I've accepted for myself that that exercise will increase slower than others-- because my body dictates it.

You *will* heal. But don't *rush* it-- the patience will pay off. It's been over a year, and still continuing for me-- your situation may be different.

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SteelyD
Level 4

Join date: Jun 2007
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 12051

Squats
135x10
225x12
315x8
405x5, x5

Front Squats
135x10
225x7
315x5, x5

Leg Press
3 sets x 10

Leg Ext
5 sets x 12-8

Seated Calves
4 sets x 12-10

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jjackkrash
Level 3

Join date: Apr 2009
Location: Washington, USA
Posts: 6003

Bad-ass squatting SD. That's also a great post on recovery goals. Thanks for the insight.

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cholulalula
Level

Join date: Nov 2010
Location:
Posts: 1217

I was just informed I have the Spondylolisthesis.

...Dirty, dirty word that is.

I've been feeling bummed about it and worried about my future back health, and really appreciate you posting about it. Somehow it makes me feel better to know it doesn't need to put an end to the pursuit of being beastly strong.

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SteelyD
Level 4

Join date: Jun 2007
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 12051

cholulalula wrote:
I was just informed I have the Spondylolisthesis.

...Dirty, dirty word that is.

I've been feeling bummed about it and worried about my future back health, and really appreciate you posting about it. Somehow it makes me feel better to know it doesn't need to put an end to the pursuit of being beastly strong.


Did you just have some xrays done? MD? Chiro? DO?

How does your back feel? Did you just injure it or has it been chronic?

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cholulalula
Level

Join date: Nov 2010
Location:
Posts: 1217

SteelyD wrote:
cholulalula wrote:
I was just informed I have the Spondylolisthesis.

...Dirty, dirty word that is.

I've been feeling bummed about it and worried about my future back health, and really appreciate you posting about it. Somehow it makes me feel better to know it doesn't need to put an end to the pursuit of being beastly strong.


Did you just have some xrays done? MD? Chiro? DO?

How does your back feel? Did you just injure it or has it been chronic?


PT. I had too many x-rays on my low back as a kid that they're hesitant to do more...apparently when I have kids some day they could turn out to be mutants.

My back's been crap for a long time. I was a gymnast growing up so I spent half my life in a back bend, and had a couple stress fractures to show for it. Lately it's been really bothering me and I kind of just pegged lifting heavier for the increased pain. I don't really know where to go from here, I guess just trying to correct my lordosis and work on engaging the lower section of my abs.

How about yours?? Have you found anything to be more helpful in managing the pain?

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SteelyD
Level 4

Join date: Jun 2007
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 12051

Heroin.

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cholulalula
Level

Join date: Nov 2010
Location:
Posts: 1217

SteelyD wrote:
Heroin.


see, now that just doesn't work for me.

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SteelyD
Level 4

Join date: Jun 2007
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 12051

J/K.

Just respecting every rep. Knowing when to quit. Advil, Aspirin, Heat, Ice. Foam Rolling. Mobility. Good relationship with chiro.

Did I mention heroin?

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MattyXL
Level 1

Join date: Jun 2008
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 8922

Dude what a fucking journey, I just went through your old logs.

Awesome squatting, I believe you also use the BB style for your front squats, Im having issues with the bar slipping down my shoulders and thus failing at the 315...

315 for sets of 5 is no joke.

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dday
Level 4

Join date: Jan 2008
Location: Missouri, USA
Posts: 4575

So much truth in your recovery story. Way to be smart and work around it/improve yourself. Good stuff man.

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SteelyD
Level 4

Join date: Jun 2007
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 12051

MattyXL wrote:
Dude what a fucking journey, I just went through your old logs.

Awesome squatting, I believe you also use the BB style for your front squats, Im having issues with the bar slipping down my shoulders and thus failing at the 315...

315 for sets of 5 is no joke.


Thanks man. Yeah, I cross my arms for front squats. I can't bend my wrists back to rack the bar Olympic style.

By "can't" I mean, it's uncomfortable and I'm not flexible enough because I haven't put in the time to work on it ;)

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SteelyD
Level 4

Join date: Jun 2007
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 12051

dday wrote:
So much truth in your recovery story. Way to be smart and work around it/improve yourself. Good stuff man.


Thanks D

I hear people in the gym all the time talk about how they can train because of X, Y or Z injury. Well, if your knee hurts it doesn't mean you can do curls, etc. I think it's about finding your way that works with what you can.

One thing that really improved for me during earlier recovery was my upper back. I dead hang a lot to decompress, so early on I just did a lot of pullups because they didn't hurt. As soon as I put my feet back on the ground-- OWWEEEE!

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SteelyD
Level 4

Join date: Jun 2007
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 12051

Approximate breakdown of "1st Lunch"

Avocado (1 Med): 250 cal, 25g Fat, 15g Carb, 0g Prot
Butter (2T): 200 cal, 11g Fat, 0g Carb, 0g Prot
Coconut (1/8 c): 35 Cal, 4g Fat, 1g Carb, 0g Prot
Mozz Chs (1/3 c): 110 Cal, 8g Fat, 1g Carb, 8g Prot
Eggs (10): 700 cal, 45g Fat, 0g Carb, 60g Prot

Total: 1295 Cal, 93g Fat, 16g Carb, 68g Prot

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FISCHER613
Level

Join date: Sep 2004
Location: Illinois, USA
Posts: 2480

SteelyD wrote:
Approximate breakdown of "1st Lunch"

Avocado (1 Med): 250 cal, 25g Fat, 15g Carb, 0g Prot
Butter (2T): 200 cal, 11g Fat, 0g Carb, 0g Prot
Coconut (1/8 c): 35 Cal, 4g Fat, 1g Carb, 0g Prot
Mozz Chs (1/3 c): 110 Cal, 8g Fat, 1g Carb, 8g Prot
Eggs (10): 700 cal, 45g Fat, 0g Carb, 60g Prot

Total: 1295 Cal, 93g Fat, 16g Carb, 68g Prot



Funny how I want to go eat some eggs or have chips, salsa and gaucomole!!!

food looks good.

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SteelyD
Level 4

Join date: Jun 2007
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 12051

Shoulders

Mil Press*: bar x 15, 95x15,135x10, 185x6, 135x10, 155x7
DB Press: 100x10, 110x9, 120x7
DB side raises: 6 sets x 15-8 reps
DB rear delt raises: 4 sets x 15-10 reps
DB front raises: 4 sets x 10-8 reps
Cable side raises: 3 sets x 12-10 reps

DB Farmer walks: 3 sets x almost 1 lap around track

* First time doing standing militarys in over year, probably 1.5. I'm adding these back in rotation

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MattyXL
Level 1

Join date: Jun 2008
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 8922

SteelyD wrote:
Shoulders

Mil Press*: bar x 15, 95x15,135x10, 185x6, 135x10, 155x7
DB Press: 100x10, 110x9, 120x7
DB side raises: 6 sets x 15-8 reps
DB rear delt raises: 4 sets x 15-10 reps
DB front raises: 4 sets x 10-8 reps
Cable side raises: 3 sets x 12-10 reps

DB Farmer walks: 3 sets x almost 1 lap around track

* First time doing standing militarys in over year, probably 1.5. I'm adding these back in rotation



How did they feel? Are you going with a false grip, thats some pretty good weight for no Millies in a year and a half, talk about muscle memory...

And that is some stout DB presses!

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SteelyD
Level 4

Join date: Jun 2007
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 12051

MattyXL wrote:
SteelyD wrote:
Shoulders

Mil Press*: bar x 15, 95x15,135x10, 185x6, 135x10, 155x7
DB Press: 100x10, 110x9, 120x7
DB side raises: 6 sets x 15-8 reps
DB rear delt raises: 4 sets x 15-10 reps
DB front raises: 4 sets x 10-8 reps
Cable side raises: 3 sets x 12-10 reps

DB Farmer walks: 3 sets x almost 1 lap around track

* First time doing standing militarys in over year, probably 1.5. I'm adding these back in rotation



How did they feel? Are you going with a false grip, thats some pretty good weight for no Millies in a year and a half, talk about muscle memory...

And that is some stout DB presses!


THANKS!

They felt good. False grip- yep. Wrist wraps. Starting at or a little below chin, head forward through the motion.

I stopped doing them way back because I thought they were contributing to a nagging shoulder. We shall see how that progresses.

You (and Wendler) inspired me to add these back in.

QUESTION for all: In a competition , like an APA/WPA meet, what is the full ROM for a strict press. Is it at chin, at chest, at nose, etc? Is there some standard?

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MattyXL
Level 1

Join date: Jun 2008
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 8922

from the apa rulebook

Overhead Press:
The bar is placed on squat racks set at lower frontal deltoid height. The lifter takes the bar out from this position (can walk back or remain in place) and establishes a starting position with knees locked and standing erect.
When the lifter is in the apparent starting position the center referee will say press and give an upward motion of the hand to indicate the lift has commenced.
The lifter presses the weight to straight arms length, locks the elbows and waits for the down command which is given when the lifter is in the apparent finished position. Down command is given by the center referee And will be a verbal command ?down? and a downward motion of the hand.
The lifter may not lean back or change the position of the back, not may he bend the knees during the performance of the lift, or do any other movement to help ?thrust? the weight upward.
When the down command is given the lifter lowers the weight to his shoulders and racks the bar.
Causes for disqualification of the Overhead Press:
Leaning back when performing the lift to make the lift easier and arm stroke shorter.
Bending the knees during the lift.
Pressing the weight before the press command is given, racking the weight before the rack command is given.
Downward movement during the uplifting phase of the lift.
Those who wish to obtain a referee shirt can order one online at the APA products store

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SteelyD
Level 4

Join date: Jun 2007
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 12051

MattyXL wrote:
from the apa rulebook

RTFM!!!!!


lol.. thx dude!

So, I guess that's got to be my starting point. I'll be lowering the weight on the bar for the time being.

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DBasler
Level 3

Join date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 2067

Lots of passengers on the SteelyD bus but I had to check in to say that is some Monster dumbbell pressing. Do you have help getting them into position or do you have to clean them to shoulder level?

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SteelyD
Level 4

Join date: Jun 2007
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 12051

DBasler wrote:
Lots of passengers on the SteelyD bus but I had to check in to say that is some Monster dumbbell pressing. Do you have help getting them into position or do you have to clean them to shoulder level?


HA! Thanks man.

I can clean the 110's but don't like to. If I'm lifting with someone, I will grab a db and hand it to them (they hold both ends). I throw up the on db and sit, then they just hand it off on my shoulder, then I start pressing.

By the time I get to the 120s (I can do more, but that's the highest db at this one gym), I usually get an assist on the first couple inches, then do the set.

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SteelyD
Level 4

Join date: Jun 2007
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 12051

DBasler wrote:
Lots of passengers on the SteelyD bus but I had to check in to say that is some Monster dumbbell pressing. Do you have help getting them into position or do you have to clean them to shoulder level?


Hey, just noticed you're in Ohio. Where abouts? What do you know about "greater Dayton"?

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DBasler
Level 3

Join date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 2067

I hear you on the not liking to clean them. I have done up to 105's cleaning them but getting them in position seemed to take more out of me than the pressing did.

I'm in Columbus but have some friends and people I do business with in the Dayton area which is about an hour southwest of me.

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Brother Chris
Level 2

Join date: May 2005
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 16910

SteelyD wrote:
Squats
135x10
225x12
315x8
405x5, x5


When I grow up, I want to be just like you.

Good luck on the progress stuff.

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