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Clean more than Front Squat
 

Koing
Level 4

Join date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3694

I see what your saying Alexus. You have over come many problems and you are working hard.

Dave284 wrote:
Speaking as a beginner, training more often made me do the lifts worse - poor technique and very inconsistent. Almost as soon as I began lifting x 3 a week, I've hit a PR every session.


This is what I am elaborating to. Less IS MORE.

Go in on your off days to stretch, Do nothing else but stretch. Then just go back home. DO NOT TRAIN ON YOUR OFF DAYS.

Being FRESH FOR TRAINING CAN NOT BE UNDERESTIMATED. I go in training now a days feeling much fresher. I don't do any BS stuff that I use to do. It's stripped down and bare bones.

By all mean do all the bar work and mobility work you need to do but don't do too much stuff. It isn't needed imo.

Dave knows the score.

I'm beginning to change my view on the RSR. It's good but it hammers the lifts so badly for most people it isn't nearly worth doing imo. When I was younger I was fine lifting and doing the RSR. I was younger and I was sleeping a tonne. But after 12yrs I can't do both properly due to work and sleep. The FS to Max single and 2 drop down sets and just lifting to max is helping me realise this is the way forwards. I can get my gains on the FS and get gains on my OLifts.

Koing

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Dave284
Level 2

Join date: May 2007
Posts: 510

To be fair Pendlay does say exactly this in his beginners\intermediate programming articles. Basically be very careful in adding in sessions and only to do so when you stop improving on x 3 a week. John Broz says similar from what I've seen - it takes a long time to get used to adding in more volume and you need to adapt the rest of your life to it.

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alexus
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Join date: Feb 2010
Posts: 4751

yeah. if i recovered more the weights would feel lighter and move faster. and some of my technique issues might simply sort themselves out. i think i hear you.

6x6 day yesterday. i just wanna eat and sleep. not going in to the gym today...

last week i started feeling like not training on a couple days... maybe my body is trying to tell me something after all...

i'll go a lot easier on myself for everything aside from my programmed squats for now.

figure out something more realistic once i'm done with the RSR.

i am really glad i decided to do it, though. was basically bashing my head against a brick wall trying to progress with 5x5 / 8x3 / max day.
have lighter days then heavier than you have ever done before days are made possible. hmm.

writing up my dissertation at the moment. i feel a lot better about hitting the gym (10 minutes walk away) than i do about crying under the covers 'i don't wanna write my thesis!!!' i know i won't be able to train like this indefinitely (ie when i get a real job). but looks like i need to reassess training like this now...

i just feel pretty demoralized that things like push-ups, chin-ups, inverted rows etc are still so freaking hard for me when they should be easy endurance work. but... well... how well is my strategy serving me with respect to making gains? not so much. time to try something new...

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Koing
Level 4

Join date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3694

alexus wrote:
yeah. if i recovered more the weights would feel lighter and move faster. and some of my technique issues might simply sort themselves out. i think i hear you.

6x6 day yesterday. i just wanna eat and sleep. not going in to the gym today...

last week i started feeling like not training on a couple days... maybe my body is trying to tell me something after all...

i'll go a lot easier on myself for everything aside from my programmed squats for now.

figure out something more realistic once i'm done with the RSR.

i am really glad i decided to do it, though. was basically bashing my head against a brick wall trying to progress with 5x5 / 8x3 / max day.
have lighter days then heavier than you have ever done before days are made possible. hmm.

writing up my dissertation at the moment. i feel a lot better about hitting the gym (10 minutes walk away) than i do about crying under the covers 'i don't wanna write my thesis!!!' i know i won't be able to train like this indefinitely (ie when i get a real job). but looks like i need to reassess training like this now...

i just feel pretty demoralized that things like push-ups, chin-ups, inverted rows etc are still so freaking hard for me when they should be easy endurance work. but... well... how well is my strategy serving me with respect to making gains? not so much. time to try something new...


This is thing, if you want to be good at push ups, chins ups etc you'll have to train them and they will take away from the olifts. Do them after the OLifts but they will get easier in time. I could barely do 8 pushs ups when I was 15. I can rattle off 55 at any given time now, it's no biggie. It just takes time in training but I can't run for sh!t. My mile time is about 9mins?! I have no running endurance what so ever LOL.

Koing

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clean and squat
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Join date: May 2011
Posts: 99

When I first started I had the problem of a low front squat compared to my clean.

I just have a quick question. Are there any benefits of doing deadlifts over clean pulls. Or are clean pulls just the better exercise? What are the reasons?

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alexus
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I answered your question over on the beginners forum. Will be interested to hear what people say here.

Basically...

Depends on your goals.

Are you wanting to train Olympic Lifting?

Are you wanting to train strength?

Clean pulls are an assistance exercise for the clean. I've never heard of anyone doing them for general strength training.

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Koing
Level 4

Join date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3694

alexus wrote:
I answered your question over on the beginners forum. Will be interested to hear what people say here.

Basically...

Depends on your goals.

Are you wanting to train Olympic Lifting?

Are you wanting to train strength?

Clean pulls are an assistance exercise for the clean. I've never heard of anyone doing them for general strength training.


Clean pulls for general strength would be an amazing exercise for people who can't Clean. You get the explosiveness that most people lack in the DL. But the DL done correctly should be explosive also. But most people slow down towards the end of the exercise instead of speed up like the Clean pull. Not the exercises fault but the people that do them.

Like Alexus has said it depends on your goal. Why not do both for Strength? But I'd ditch both once your beyond a beginner and just focus on the full lifts if you want to shift big weights in the full lifts imo.

Most people also don't DL like they do the first 2 pulls in the Cleans. The Clean pull is suppose to have the same position as the Clean, back bolt straight, not rounded at all, chest up, hips and shoulders rising about the same rate.

Koing

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jeckjeck
Level 1

Join date: Jan 2012
Posts: 12

Just so you know Christian Olsson swedish triple jumper, he weights about 73-80kg, PC 145kg FS 120-125kg BS 152.5kg

How is that possible to powerclean that much more than he FS?

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alexus
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Join date: Feb 2010
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his front squat must not be very practiced compared to his powerclean.

if he is a triple jumper... he probably has very long legs that aren't really built for squatting.

he probably does a lot of powercleaning to bring up his jump (explosive hip drive) and not nearly as much squatting.

would be my guess anyway.

so:

practice.
athropomentry.

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Swolegasm
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Join date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1312

jeckjeck wrote:
Just so you know Christian Olsson swedish triple jumper, he weights about 73-80kg, PC 145kg FS 120-125kg BS 152.5kg

How is that possible to powerclean that much more than he FS?


He has a very strong pull. Theirs no squatting involved, just pull high and pop under.

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debraD
Level 1

Join date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7318

Swolegasm wrote:
jeckjeck wrote:
Just so you know Christian Olsson swedish triple jumper, he weights about 73-80kg, PC 145kg FS 120-125kg BS 152.5kg

How is that possible to powerclean that much more than he FS?


He has a very strong pull. Theirs no squatting involved, just pull high and pop under.


Strong back squat = strong pull? Is that true?

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Swolegasm
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Join date: Dec 2010
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debraD wrote:
Swolegasm wrote:
jeckjeck wrote:
Just so you know Christian Olsson swedish triple jumper, he weights about 73-80kg, PC 145kg FS 120-125kg BS 152.5kg

How is that possible to powerclean that much more than he FS?


He has a very strong pull. Theirs no squatting involved, just pull high and pop under.


Strong back squat = strong pull? Is that true?


Mmmm not for me. Strong pull = strong pull. My Bs sucks but I have a good pull. I'm sure it would help but I think the FS would help more and block work for strong pull. Plus below the knee and hang variations.

Edit: I'm sure jonty or koing could answer this better than me.

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debraD
Level 1

Join date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7318

Swolegasm wrote:
debraD wrote:
Swolegasm wrote:
jeckjeck wrote:
Just so you know Christian Olsson swedish triple jumper, he weights about 73-80kg, PC 145kg FS 120-125kg BS 152.5kg

How is that possible to powerclean that much more than he FS?


He has a very strong pull. Theirs no squatting involved, just pull high and pop under.


Strong back squat = strong pull? Is that true?


Mmmm not for me. Strong pull = strong pull. My Bs sucks but I have a good pull. I'm sure it would help but I think the FS would help more and block work for strong pull. Plus below the knee and hang variations.

Edit: I'm sure jonty or koing could answer this better than me.


I saw that somewhere recently but I didn't really understand the relationship. I have a strong pull (I was told - I don't really know what that means with respect to) but my back squat and deadlift are pretty close. My snatch high pull (to my chest) is almost 20kg over my best snatch though, but I'm sure that's a technique thing.

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Swolegasm
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Join date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1312

debraD wrote:
Swolegasm wrote:
debraD wrote:
Swolegasm wrote:
jeckjeck wrote:
Just so you know Christian Olsson swedish triple jumper, he weights about 73-80kg, PC 145kg FS 120-125kg BS 152.5kg

How is that possible to powerclean that much more than he FS?


He has a very strong pull. Theirs no squatting involved, just pull high and pop under.


Strong back squat = strong pull? Is that true?


Mmmm not for me. Strong pull = strong pull. My Bs sucks but I have a good pull. I'm sure it would help but I think the FS would help more and block work for strong pull. Plus below the knee and hang variations.

Edit: I'm sure jonty or koing could answer this better than me.


I saw that somewhere recently but I didn't really understand the relationship. I have a strong pull (I was told - I don't really know what that means with respect to) but my back squat and deadlift are pretty close. My snatch high pull (to my chest) is almost 20kg over my best snatch though, but I'm sure that's a technique thing.


Well do you get buried under cleans? If you do then your pull probably is stronger than your legs i.e. you have a strong pull or crappy legs. A weak pull also means technique, like your 2nd pull may be crap or your transition from below to above knee is crap.

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debraD
Level 1

Join date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7318

Swolegasm wrote:
debraD wrote:
Swolegasm wrote:
debraD wrote:
Swolegasm wrote:
jeckjeck wrote:
Just so you know Christian Olsson swedish triple jumper, he weights about 73-80kg, PC 145kg FS 120-125kg BS 152.5kg

How is that possible to powerclean that much more than he FS?


He has a very strong pull. Theirs no squatting involved, just pull high and pop under.


Strong back squat = strong pull? Is that true?


Mmmm not for me. Strong pull = strong pull. My Bs sucks but I have a good pull. I'm sure it would help but I think the FS would help more and block work for strong pull. Plus below the knee and hang variations.

Edit: I'm sure jonty or koing could answer this better than me.


I saw that somewhere recently but I didn't really understand the relationship. I have a strong pull (I was told - I don't really know what that means with respect to) but my back squat and deadlift are pretty close. My snatch high pull (to my chest) is almost 20kg over my best snatch though, but I'm sure that's a technique thing.


Well do you get buried under cleans? If you do then your pull probably is stronger than your legs i.e. you have a strong pull or crappy legs. A weak pull also means technique, like your 2nd pull may be crap or your transition from below to above knee is crap.


No, so I guess maybe I don't have a strong pull relative to my squat. It was just something I was told that I didn't really get. But then my limits are all technique related anyhow so it doesn't matter.

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Swolegasm
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Join date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1312

debraD wrote:
Swolegasm wrote:
debraD wrote:
Swolegasm wrote:
debraD wrote:
Swolegasm wrote:
jeckjeck wrote:
Just so you know Christian Olsson swedish triple jumper, he weights about 73-80kg, PC 145kg FS 120-125kg BS 152.5kg

How is that possible to powerclean that much more than he FS?


He has a very strong pull. Theirs no squatting involved, just pull high and pop under.


Strong back squat = strong pull? Is that true?


Mmmm not for me. Strong pull = strong pull. My Bs sucks but I have a good pull. I'm sure it would help but I think the FS would help more and block work for strong pull. Plus below the knee and hang variations.

Edit: I'm sure jonty or koing could answer this better than me.


I saw that somewhere recently but I didn't really understand the relationship. I have a strong pull (I was told - I don't really know what that means with respect to) but my back squat and deadlift are pretty close. My snatch high pull (to my chest) is almost 20kg over my best snatch though, but I'm sure that's a technique thing.


Well do you get buried under cleans? If you do then your pull probably is stronger than your legs i.e. you have a strong pull or crappy legs. A weak pull also means technique, like your 2nd pull may be crap or your transition from below to above knee is crap.


No, so I guess maybe I don't have a strong pull relative to my squat. It was just something I was told that I didn't really get. But then my limits are all technique related anyhow so it doesn't matter.


Well you dont have to get buried, but the standing up part might be the hardest. Does cleaning more increase your clean or does an increase in FS increase your clean?

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debraD
Level 1

Join date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7318

Swolegasm wrote:
Well you dont have to get buried, but the standing up part might be the hardest. Does cleaning more increase your clean or does an increase in FS increase your clean?


Neither. I clark the bar when it gets heavy rather than miss for any sensible reason. I've never had trouble standing up from a clean. But I have caused some pain by over pulling and having the bar crash down on me. I just need more guts =) But my jerk is limiting me anyhow.

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gymratjames
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Join date: Jun 2009
Posts: 9

Hey alexus

Where abouts in NZ are you? I train with a coach in Auckland as part of a weightlifting club. Started about a month and a half ago and it was the best decision I have made. Getting all my bad habits corrected and going to start competing this year too.

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alexus
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Join date: Feb 2010
Posts: 4751

hi.

not in Auckland. you with the millennium institute or someplace else?

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gymratjames
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Join date: Jun 2009
Posts: 9

Na, Netfit. It's a good setup there. MISH has a mean setup too but would be quite far to travel

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