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105kg Lifter Power Jerks 220kg
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heavythrower
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at the 2011 world championships. check out the 18:50 mark. I thought this was insane.

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PB Andy
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yeah that guys a beast.

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heavythrower
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was that guy injured? i wonder if he always power jerks, or was an injury causing him to do it, or perhaps he was trying to psych out his opponents, showing them he could power jerk, making them wonder how much heavier he could go once he starts full jerking the weight?

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TheJonty
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heavythrower wrote:
was that guy injured? i wonder if he always power jerks, or was an injury causing him to do it, or perhaps he was trying to psych out his opponents, showing them he could power jerk, making them wonder how much heavier he could go once he starts full jerking the weight?


Don't think he was injured. If you check out the 39:00 mark, he hits 229 with a sort of splot jerk to take the overall bronze. Impressive stuff.

Heavy, have you seen the thread we had a couple months back on David Bedzhanyan? Guy set a new world record clean and jerk in the 105s with a power jerk. I'll see if I can find it.

EDIT: Here it is http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...avid_bedzhanian

Some good videos in that thread.

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heavythrower
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yes, saw him hit that 229. i was watching the vid as i posted it, and had not seen that yet. thanks for the link, that was a SICK lift. almost as impressive as the power jerk, did you notice how easy that clean was?

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TheJonty
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heavythrower wrote:
yes, saw him hit that 229. i was watching the vid as i posted it, and had not seen that yet. thanks for the link, that was a SICK lift. almost as impressive as the power jerk, did you notice how easy that clean was?


Oh, I noticed. That man will be a force to be reckoned with during the next Olympic cycle, or as soon as one of Klokov/Akkaev retire/get injured/test positive.

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heavythrower
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haha, ur prolly right.

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Weighty1
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TheJonty wrote:
heavythrower wrote:
yes, saw him hit that 229. i was watching the vid as i posted it, and had not seen that yet. thanks for the link, that was a SICK lift. almost as impressive as the power jerk, did you notice how easy that clean was?


Oh, I noticed. That man will be a force to be reckoned with during the next Olympic cycle, or as soon as one of Klokov/Akkaev retire/get injured/test positive.


Isn't Bedzhanyan a good 20kg behind Klokov and Akkaev on the snatch though? I'll more interesting to see if he can replicate his C&J figures on the international stage. Look at Salimi, he snatched 220kg in an Iranian comp prior to Worlds (not that he was a million miles off at the worlds, but at the end of the day he still didn't match it).

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hatesmiles
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Bezhanyan did 190+240 at Russian cup last november.

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Weighty1
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hatesmiles wrote:
Bezhanyan did 190+240 at Russian cup last november.


not a million miles behind then, but has he competed in any international comps? I'd take that as a more realistic idea of whether he is ever likely to replace Klokov or Akkaev in the near future

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hatesmiles
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He won the under-23 europeans and won the president cup last december. He lifts in the europeans next month. Rigert is going to have a headache if he pulls out a monster total at Antalya...!?!

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TheJonty
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From www.iwf.net, the 2011 Annual World Ranking for the Senior Men 105kg:

1. Akkaev, Khadzhimurat RUS 198-232-430
2. Klokov, Dmitry RUS 196-232-428
3. Bejanyan, David RUS 183-238-421

Now, Marcin Dolega didn't compete at all in 2011 due to that shoulder, but that should still be some evidence that the only thing keeping Bejanyan (or Bedzhanyan, however you want to spell it) from international competition success is his two countrymen.

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TheJonty
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hatesmiles wrote:
He won the under-23 europeans and won the president cup last december. He lifts in the europeans next month. Rigert is going to have a headache if he pulls out a monster total at Antalya...!?!


Naw, I think even if Bedzhanyan pops a huge total, they send Akkaev/Klokov to London. Those two are very consistent and proven competitors on the world stage, I'm not sure Bedzhanyan has even competed in a Worlds yet. I think we start seeing him at world championships in 2013 as he becomes the go-to guy for the Russians at 105 for the next cycle. The Russians may also have some precedent for this, as I believe going into Beijing Dmitry Berestov was their highest ranked 105 lifter, but he had a history of being less consistent in international competition and so was scrubbed in favour of Klokov/Lapikov.

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Bigchrome
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Pretty Insane lift alright! The clean was impressive in its own right, extremely powerful and tidy looking.
The intensity of the 229 attempt was something else aswell! Promising lifter!

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rehanb_bl
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not in the 105s yet but doing good is the young evgeny kolomiets. He was at the junior worlds in the 94s. Fast as LIGHTNING. just didn't manage to stand up with a 215 c&j, he looks rather tall so might be moving up soon.

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caveman101
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Well, now I just feel bad about my latest deadlift pr. what a beast

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alexus
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why would he be stronger doing that? some kind of injury or something?

how come kendrick farris (sp?) does his weird looking jerk, too? and dimias? i mean, i guess they are strongest that way or they wouldn't do it, but really, what is up with that??

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Weighty1
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alexus wrote:
why would he be stronger doing that? some kind of injury or something?

how come kendrick farris (sp?) does his weird looking jerk, too? and dimias? i mean, i guess they are strongest that way or they wouldn't do it, but really, what is up with that??

Out of the 3 you mention I'd say only Farris does an unusual jerk. Torokhity and Dimas just do standard power jerks.

I'm fairly certain that Dimas started doing them following an injury but some lifters just find them easier, especially if they have a monster jerk in comparison to their clean.

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bcingu
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alexus wrote:
why would he be stronger doing that? some kind of injury or something?

how come kendrick farris (sp?) does his weird looking jerk, too? and dimias? i mean, i guess they are strongest that way or they wouldn't do it, but really, what is up with that??


Farris's jerk has been pretty ugly at times, but what strikes you as being weird about Dimas's?

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alexus
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my sentence was awkward. didn't meant to imply that dimas had a weird or ugly looking jerk - his jerk looks awesome to me. just meant to express surprise that he was stronger that way.

makes sense about it being fine for someone who is massively strong on the jerk (compared to clean) to do -- but is that often the case? i thought the jerk tended to be limiting. i mean i guess that technically proficient lifters simply are stronger with the power versions... but i'm really surprised. i don't understand why on earth. but then i think i've been surprised at how little technically proficient lifters get out of full cleans / snatches compared to power versions, too.

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PB Andy
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alexus wrote:
my sentence was awkward. didn't meant to imply that dimas had a weird or ugly looking jerk - his jerk looks awesome to me. just meant to express surprise that he was stronger that way.

makes sense about it being fine for someone who is massively strong on the jerk (compared to clean) to do -- but is that often the case? i thought the jerk tended to be limiting. i mean i guess that technically proficient lifters simply are stronger with the power versions... but i'm really surprised. i don't understand why on earth. but then i think i've been surprised at how little technically proficient lifters get out of full cleans / snatches compared to power versions, too.


well if you think about it, it's still a jerk... just a power jerk, lol. He's still using a crazy amount of power, and he'll duck under it as far as he needs to. Same power, same distance. Just need to be solid on your technique because it's harder to save a power jerk. No prob for Dimas though since he was taught as a kid.

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alexus
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he'll duck under it as far as he needs to...

yeah. so if you can powerjerk x amount of weight... you should be able to split or squat jerk x + a whole heap more amount of weight.

ASSUMING technical proficiency.

uh. that was why the split jerk was an 'advancement' in technique over the powerjerk, i thought. and the full (squat) versions of the clean and snatch too

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Weighty1
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alexus wrote:
he'll duck under it as far as he needs to...

yeah. so if you can powerjerk x amount of weight... you should be able to split or squat jerk x + a whole heap more amount of weight.

ASSUMING technical proficiency.

uh. that was why the split jerk was an 'advancement' in technique over the powerjerk, i thought. and the full (squat) versions of the clean and snatch too


You're equating the power jerk as being a "power" movement in the same way as a power clean & snatch and looking at a split jerk as equivalent to a squat clean/snatch. In my eyes the argument would be better looked at in comparison with lifters being able to squat clean and snatch a whole load more than the can split clean and snatch because it allows then to get lower.

I think the term power jerk is almost a misnomer. Yeah, the angle in the thighs has to be more than 90o or it's a squat jerk, however, in a split jerk the front leg never gets anywhere near that 90o angle so as long as the lifter has the shoulder flexibility then they technically "should" be able to power jerk as much as they split jerk. The main issue is that there is less room for error on the power jerk.

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alexus
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my understanding is that...

given the potential size / potential strength of the muscles of the legs...

then given technical proficiency (some lifters train for long hours for a number of years from a very young age)...

you should always be able to stand up (with your legs) more weight than you could pull (power) to the same height.
so a split should (theoretically) be stronger than a power because the split positions the lifters torso lower under the bar so the bar doesn't need to be pulled as high...
so a squat should (theoretically) be stronger than a power and a split because the full squat positions the lifters torso lower under the bar so the bar doesn't need to be pulled as high.

at least... that is what i read about the evolution of weightlifting technique with respect to power, splot, split, squat cleans and snatches.

________________

so... GIVEN THAT (for the sake of argument) that is the case for cleans and snatches...

what the hell is going on with jerks? same thing? in which case we should expect to see ultimate convergence on the squat jerk... or something different? which might explain why the hell we haven't seen ultimate convergence on the squat jerk.

i'm upset because theoretically jerks should be the same.

but the data seems to say that they aren't the same.

so why the hell aren't they the same?

what is going on?

is the analysis of 'lower under the bar = more weight lifted' for cleans and snatches wrong, somehow?? or what??


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alexus
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i really am in earnest about this btw. it does keep me awake at nights...

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