Building High-Performance Muscle™
Conditioning
 
Big Deal About CrossFit?
 

OBoile
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Join date: Sep 2006
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Posts: 1128

lanchefan1 wrote:
OBoile wrote:
lanchefan1 wrote:
OBoile wrote:
spk wrote:


crossfits top guys are fit, built, and agile.. like a gymnast.

bodybuilders top guys are built but move like a statue..

just my opinion..

One thing to note: most, if not all, of the top crossfit guys (at least at the crossfit games) don't actually do crossfit.



And this is based on?


Reading how they train and the crossfit.com message boards.


Well we all know how accurate message boards can be LOL.

Just like any athlete at the top level they aren't going to workout like joe blow off the street.

Several either own their own gym or are part owners, so the local affiliate would be theirs.

Having had conversations with one of the top competitors, they stated they still do some kind of a daily WOD. It may not be the same their clientel (SP) is doing for the day but they are doing one just the same.

But one of the things about this board is that most members do not like CF or care for those that have taken in the "kool-aid" so to each his own. But some of these guys and girls are pretty good specimens for physical developement.


Doing "some kind of a daily WOD" does NOT mean you are doing crossfit. I would have thought this should be obvious.

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LikeWater
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Join date: May 2010
Location: Illinois, USA
Posts: 270

question to DeadSquat.... do you think you can make a better cheeseburger than McDonalds's?

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lanchefan1
Level 3

Join date: Feb 2003
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 1185

OBoile wrote:


Doing "some kind of a daily WOD" does NOT mean you are doing crossfit. I would have thought this should be obvious.


You do realize that a lot of the people that go into the affiliates have the workouts "scaled" ot their level right? Some do more, some do lower weights.

Not every local does the WOD directly off the main webisite.

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OBoile
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lanchefan1 wrote:
OBoile wrote:


Doing "some kind of a daily WOD" does NOT mean you are doing crossfit. I would have thought this should be obvious.


You do realize that a lot of the people that go into the affiliates have the workouts "scaled" ot their level right? Some do more, some do lower weights.

Not every local does the WOD directly off the main webisite.


That's great.
What exactly is your point?

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lanchefan1
Level 3

Join date: Feb 2003
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 1185

OBoile wrote:
lanchefan1 wrote:
OBoile wrote:


Doing "some kind of a daily WOD" does NOT mean you are doing crossfit. I would have thought this should be obvious.


You do realize that a lot of the people that go into the affiliates have the workouts "scaled" ot their level right? Some do more, some do lower weights.

Not every local does the WOD directly off the main webisite.


That's great.
What exactly is your point?


I believe I already made it, no need to elaborate.

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OBoile
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Join date: Sep 2006
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Posts: 1128

lanchefan1 wrote:
OBoile wrote:
lanchefan1 wrote:
OBoile wrote:


Doing "some kind of a daily WOD" does NOT mean you are doing crossfit. I would have thought this should be obvious.


You do realize that a lot of the people that go into the affiliates have the workouts "scaled" ot their level right? Some do more, some do lower weights.

Not every local does the WOD directly off the main webisite.


That's great.
What exactly is your point?


I believe I already made it, no need to elaborate.

Please elaborate. I'd love to know what it (your point) is.

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tom63
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Join date: Dec 2004
Location:
Posts: 5083

I invented crossfit . Of course I just called it bring active . Get up and mow a two acre lawn. Then I'd go lift( powerlit) . A few hours later I would play basketball or street hockey. And I stretched every day.

Jim Thorpe did this thing they call the decathlon . Wrestlers do this thing called wrestling training. And football players lift, run hills
, push sleds etc.

Sounds like adult daycare to me. Buy a prowler, a Mt bike, done running shoes and get a lifting gym membership and have at it.

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spook1
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Join date: May 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 211

LikeWater wrote:
question to DeadSquat.... do you think you can make a better cheeseburger than McDonalds's?


^Serious any one can make a better cheese burger at home, McDonalds is complete shit.

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lanchefan1
Level 3

Join date: Feb 2003
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 1185

OBoile wrote:
lanchefan1 wrote:
OBoile wrote:
lanchefan1 wrote:
OBoile wrote:


Doing "some kind of a daily WOD" does NOT mean you are doing crossfit. I would have thought this should be obvious.


You do realize that a lot of the people that go into the affiliates have the workouts "scaled" ot their level right? Some do more, some do lower weights.

Not every local does the WOD directly off the main webisite.


That's great.
What exactly is your point?


I believe I already made it, no need to elaborate.

Please elaborate. I'd love to know what it (your point) is.


That just like you everybody caters their training to the specific need.

And it would be stupid for a competitor who is going to be doing a series of these workouts to not include them in their training.

Also having known some of these competitors and seen how he and she train, I know they include a daily WOD. So does that make my point? :)

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OBoile
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Join date: Sep 2006
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Posts: 1128

lanchefan1 wrote:
OBoile wrote:
lanchefan1 wrote:
OBoile wrote:
lanchefan1 wrote:
OBoile wrote:


Doing "some kind of a daily WOD" does NOT mean you are doing crossfit. I would have thought this should be obvious.


You do realize that a lot of the people that go into the affiliates have the workouts "scaled" ot their level right? Some do more, some do lower weights.

Not every local does the WOD directly off the main webisite.


That's great.
What exactly is your point?


I believe I already made it, no need to elaborate.

Please elaborate. I'd love to know what it (your point) is.


That just like you everybody caters their training to the specific need.

And it would be stupid for a competitor who is going to be doing a series of these workouts to not include them in their training.

Also having known some of these competitors and seen how he and she train, I know they include a daily WOD. So does that make my point? :)


Once again: just because someone does a "WOD" does NOT mean they are doing crossfit. Those workouts existed before Crossfit did and are not exclusive to Crossfit. This should be obvious.

All people who do Crossfit are training to be successful "accross broad time and modal domains" but not all people who train to be successful "accross broad time and modal domains" are doing Crossfit.

http://library.crossfit.com/...standing_CF.pdf
http://journal.crossfit.com/...programming.tpl

If you are doing any kind of perodization: you're not doing Crossfit. If you are not constantly varying your exercises, you are not doing Crossfit (this applies to MANY Crossfit affiliates). If you are following a routine (something like 5/3/1 plus "mentcon" - what a stupid word) then you are NOT doing Crossfit. If you are intentionally scheduling low intensity exercise either as a deload or to develop specific aerobic qualities, then you are not doing Crossfit.

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Ski_USMC
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Join date: Jul 2008
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Posts: 76

I feel the need to opine on crossfit:

Now I do use the workouts (occasionally) as a conditioning finisher. Many Marines I know who drank the kool-aide are starting to switch away, or periodize their training. Now you'll always have the new guy who are attracted by the effective marketing. Here are a few points I would like to argue against crossfit (or rather balance their marketing campaign with).

1) Crossfit being supreme for military guys:
a)This is a serious problem because many military servicemen are hurt, or at least contraindicated for majority of lifts. Often times they cannot perform proper overhead presses due to a combination of insufficient mobility and poor shoulder strength/balance.
b)It is a lie that in the military that "you need to train for anything at anytime because combat is like that". Most military personnel do not deploy without at least weeks of workups. In addition, based upon your role in the military, you do know the physical demands of you. Going to Afghanistan, I would be load bearing multiple times a day at incredibly slow pace, periodically punctuated by activity of high intensity bursts. I may have to physically restrain a person long enough for a fellow Marine to shoot him in hand to hand combat.
Looking at the list you can begin to set up training to boost performance in those three major physical stressors.
c) Units are beginning to create unit gyms that are crossfit only, placing a seal of endorsement by commanding officers and his staff. This turns something from a individual decision to commanders intent, which will be carried out by his subordinates.

2) Poor instruction/Mass use of difficult exercise:
a) Many military personnel possess insufficient mobility and strength to do proper cleans and presses. I wont delve into the snatch because I am very bad at the skill. Due to this, often times you see poor "catching" of the clean or push press, where a person's body is moving at angles that create sheering forces on the body. This creates unnecessary stress on an already stressed body from labor and military training.
b) Many individuals possess poor core strength to handle repeated bouts of training, let alone sprinting. Crossfit is very intense but the intensity can be very poorly applied.

3) Lack of a preparatory phase:
a) Because of the poor postural strength and and insufficient mobility, proper preparatory phase should be implemented to prevent injury allow for rapid acclimation to the crossfit workouts.

Solutions:
I use to tell people not to do crossfit. I have realized that people will crossfit regardless of what you say. Now if a Marine approached me about learning crossfit I will teach him/her how to perform the lifts correctly. In addition, I give them preparatory phase where there is a heavy emphasis on core training and loaded carries. In addition, unilateral work is also emphasized.

I think, for those of you who are in-charge of implementing or coaching crossfit, people should be tested for core strength and mobility prior to training, as well as loaded carries be part of regular programming.

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gregron
Level 4

Join date: Oct 2009
Location: California, USA
Posts: 13342

OBoile wrote:
...plus "mentcon" - what a stupid word...


that is a stupid word... is it like a metcon?

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ironcross
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Join date: Mar 2011
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This thread is hilarious. I especially loved the guy overhead squatting on the tire. It would only be better if there was a video of him failing.

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OBoile
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Join date: Sep 2006
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Posts: 1128

gregron wrote:
OBoile wrote:
...plus "mentcon" - what a stupid word...


that is a stupid word... is it like a metcon?


Why yes... yes it is. You win this round gregron.

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spk
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Join date: Mar 2010
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Posts: 545

gregron

you ever win anything other than a spelling bee? ever win any sports compititions??

lol!!!

just kidding brother..

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heavythrower
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2002
Location:
Posts: 5423

MikeTheBear wrote:
redrum wrote:
Your physical assessments are fair, but they only apply to those who embrace crossfit as their sole training platform. I would argue that if used wisely, crossfit can yield positive results for strength and "conditioning" (the title of this forum).


I agree with the above. If you look at the program as a whole, some workouts look like circuit training, but the whole program involves more than that. And each affiliate puts its own spin on things, which is good. For instance, my Olympic weightlifting club is based at a CF gym because the own is very big on the Olympic lifts and building strength in general. He's even posted on his WOD blog that if you want to get better at Crossfit (yes, they do have their own competitions) you should gain a solid base of strength. That's a lot different than the typical CF mantra of just do CF and get great at everything.

CF is popular among the military and I can see why. Most military tasks, and I would argue that mosts tasks involving life in general, don't require the endurance of a marathoner or the strength of a power lifter. They require some of both. And CF tries to do that. It does a decent job overall. Could it be better? Sure, and a smart CF trainer (I know there aren't that many but there are a few) will figure out a way to make it better, whether it's bringing up strength or endurance.

I've done CF WODs. They are challenging. No, they are not my only workout program, but a good add on to existing workouts.


THIS

Mike, you need to start your own blog, I would read it.

I am, for those who do not know, a former college shot-put and hammer thrower, A-class highland games thrower, competitive Olympic lifter and Powerlifter.

I also trained at a crossfitt for a year or so. here is my log from those days:

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...71&pageNo=0

this is a log of my "tweaked" crossfit training. I felt they neglected max strength too much, and at 5' 6" and over 250lbs, all the running and body weight stuff was much tougher on me than on the "skinny guys" but I enjoyed my training with Robb Wolfe training me.

"everything works, nothing works forever" : somebody smarter than me

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heavythrower
Level 3

Join date: Nov 2002
Location:
Posts: 5423

milktruck wrote:
also thrilled I could finally have access to a prowler and tire


if you are ever in northern cali, I train with me in my garage, I have both a prowler, tire, and med balls up to 100lbs.


funny, how some people who bitch about not having access to very important and useful equipent that, if they are serious about improving their physical abilities) say is cost restrictive,

these same people have a 5000$ jet ski in there garage, a 1500$ 60" plasma TV, a 200$ month cable TV subscription and a 50-100$/ month gym membership.

My prowler cost 400$

my ghr cost 700$

my bumper plates and olympic quality barbell cost about 2000$

do the math.

BTW, this is NOT a personal attack on you BTW, if the shoe does not fit, do not wear it.

I apologize in advance if it seemed like such( a personal attack)

michael

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lanchefan1
Level 3

Join date: Feb 2003
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 1185

OBoile wrote:

Once again: just because someone does a "WOD" does NOT mean they are doing crossfit. Those workouts existed before Crossfit did and are not exclusive to Crossfit. This should be obvious.

All people who do Crossfit are training to be successful "accross broad time and modal domains" but not all people who train to be successful "accross broad time and modal domains" are doing Crossfit.

http://library.crossfit.com/...standing_CF.pdf
http://journal.crossfit.com/...programming.tpl

If you are doing any kind of perodization: you're not doing Crossfit. If you are not constantly varying your exercises, you are not doing Crossfit (this applies to MANY Crossfit affiliates). If you are following a routine (something like 5/3/1 plus "mentcon" - what a stupid word) then you are NOT doing Crossfit. If you are intentionally scheduling low intensity exercise either as a deload or to develop specific aerobic qualities, then you are not doing Crossfit.


So by your definition and understanding of what you have read if you don't do just strictly the daily crossfit workout then your not doing crossfit?

Well by that standard I guess I'm not doing 5/3/1 since I've had to vary the workout due to my age and injury recovery. And I would say that there are a ton of people out there that really aren't following any kind of program because they don't follow it to the letter.

I have stated several times that the people I know participate in the daily workout they post for their clients, but they also add in a strength component. But hey they only own a successfull crossft gym and have trained with and learned from some of the top in the country so what would they know right?

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OBoile
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Join date: Sep 2006
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Posts: 1128

lanchefan1 wrote:
OBoile wrote:

Once again: just because someone does a "WOD" does NOT mean they are doing crossfit. Those workouts existed before Crossfit did and are not exclusive to Crossfit. This should be obvious.

All people who do Crossfit are training to be successful "accross broad time and modal domains" but not all people who train to be successful "accross broad time and modal domains" are doing Crossfit.

http://library.crossfit.com/...standing_CF.pdf
http://journal.crossfit.com/...programming.tpl

If you are doing any kind of perodization: you're not doing Crossfit. If you are not constantly varying your exercises, you are not doing Crossfit (this applies to MANY Crossfit affiliates). If you are following a routine (something like 5/3/1 plus "mentcon" - what a stupid word) then you are NOT doing Crossfit. If you are intentionally scheduling low intensity exercise either as a deload or to develop specific aerobic qualities, then you are not doing Crossfit.


So by your definition and understanding of what you have read if you don't do just strictly the daily crossfit workout then your not doing crossfit?

Well by that standard I guess I'm not doing 5/3/1 since I've had to vary the workout due to my age and injury recovery. And I would say that there are a ton of people out there that really aren't following any kind of program because they don't follow it to the letter.

I have stated several times that the people I know participate in the daily workout they post for their clients, but they also add in a strength component. But hey they only own a successfull crossft gym and have trained with and learned from some of the top in the country so what would they know right?

You just don't get it do you? I NEVER said you had to follow the main page to be doing Crossfit.
Did you read the links I posted?
To be doing Crossfit, you must follow its prinicpals. This is MORE than just training to be able to produce a high power output "accross broad time and modal domains".
constantly varied, highintensity,
functional movement.


We believe that preparation for random physical challengesâ??i.e., unknown and unknowable eventsâ??is at odds with fixed, predictable, and routine regimens.


If you are squatting every week (or every 10 days or whatever) you are not doing constantly varied exercises. Ditto for someone who follows a routine like Westside or 5/3/1.
Are you taking deloads? Doing regular long slow distance work? Then what you are doing isn't high intensity.
I won't touch "functional movement" since that could mean anything.
Perodization, peaking for an event etc. are all at odds with Crossfit's stated philosophy.

If you are doing something that is directly contrary to a system's philosophy, you are not doing the system. Drop one of the core lifts, or refuse to use the 90% rule and you aren't doing 5/3/1.

Many affiliates don't actually do Crossfit, even though they they are affiliated.

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spook1
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Join date: May 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 211

^ I think crossfit can be different things to different people.
Some people just do wod's to increase general fitness, it gives them the tools lose some fat and live a healthier life style. It?s varied and they learn and try things they never would in the local leisure centre.

Some people understand that to get better at wod's they need to practice those skills, increase metabolic conditioning and get stronger. Wod's generally take care of the first two with the skill practice before workout then strength training is needed outside of this. Is the strength training called crossfit? No, its strength training, so now your training to help do crossfit wod's.

I think the brand of crossfit gets tagged with similar types of training even if its not crossfit, e.g here in Oz if I want a cooler bin to put ice and beer in just about everyone would go into the shop and ask for an Esky. An Esky is a brand of cooler bin (fuck cooler bin sounds weird we just call it an Esky)

Does the bodybuilder who does not train legs and looks funny cause his legs are skinny is he a body builder?
The people who say they eat 90% paleo are they on the paleo diet?
It doesn't matter really.

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viper0213
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Join date: Dec 2008
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 114

OBoile wrote:
lanchefan1 wrote:
OBoile wrote:

Once again: just because someone does a "WOD" does NOT mean they are doing crossfit. Those workouts existed before Crossfit did and are not exclusive to Crossfit. This should be obvious.

All people who do Crossfit are training to be successful "accross broad time and modal domains" but not all people who train to be successful "accross broad time and modal domains" are doing Crossfit.

http://library.crossfit.com/...standing_CF.pdf
http://journal.crossfit.com/...programming.tpl

If you are doing any kind of perodization: you're not doing Crossfit. If you are not constantly varying your exercises, you are not doing Crossfit (this applies to MANY Crossfit affiliates). If you are following a routine (something like 5/3/1 plus "mentcon" - what a stupid word) then you are NOT doing Crossfit. If you are intentionally scheduling low intensity exercise either as a deload or to develop specific aerobic qualities, then you are not doing Crossfit.


So by your definition and understanding of what you have read if you don't do just strictly the daily crossfit workout then your not doing crossfit?

Well by that standard I guess I'm not doing 5/3/1 since I've had to vary the workout due to my age and injury recovery. And I would say that there are a ton of people out there that really aren't following any kind of program because they don't follow it to the letter.

I have stated several times that the people I know participate in the daily workout they post for their clients, but they also add in a strength component. But hey they only own a successfull crossft gym and have trained with and learned from some of the top in the country so what would they know right?

You just don't get it do you? I NEVER said you had to follow the main page to be doing Crossfit.
Did you read the links I posted?
To be doing Crossfit, you must follow its prinicpals. This is MORE than just training to be able to produce a high power output "accross broad time and modal domains".
constantly varied, highintensity,
functional movement.


We believe that preparation for random physical challengesâ??i.e., unknown and unknowable eventsâ??is at odds with fixed, predictable, and routine regimens.


If you are squatting every week (or every 10 days or whatever) you are not doing constantly varied exercises. Ditto for someone who follows a routine like Westside or 5/3/1.
Are you taking deloads? Doing regular long slow distance work? Then what you are doing isn't high intensity.
I won't touch "functional movement" since that could mean anything.
Perodization, peaking for an event etc. are all at odds with Crossfit's stated philosophy.

If you are doing something that is directly contrary to a system's philosophy, you are not doing the system. Drop one of the core lifts, or refuse to use the 90% rule and you aren't doing 5/3/1.

Many affiliates don't actually do Crossfit, even though they they are affiliated.


Damn, so I guess according to this arguement I'm not a powerlifter since I don't follow 5/3/1 top the letter, or a bodybuilder for that matter. Well hell what am I? Anyone? Especially since I improved my bench from 405-425, Dead 405-565, Squat 450-525 in a years time by reading, studying multiple programs and logs. Guess I better stop attending powerlifting events too.

Wow, I watched a young lady drop 20lbs in a month by following WOD, crossbrandX style, scaled workouts. I guess I better tell her that what she is doing is basically exercising and nothing more. Also, stop telling me she is doing crossfit since she isn't following the principles to the letter. Man, she is really going to be dissappointed.

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dynamicfitness
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Join date: Jan 2007
Location: California, USA
Posts: 90

CrossFit NEVER claimed to get anyone to elite level at anything but general across-the-board fitness. It won't get someone to a 700 pound deadlift or a blinding-fast 5K. Founder Glassman has explicitly said as much numerous times. But it can get someone to a RESPECTABLE level at both challenges--and more.

CrossFit's strength is its lack of specialization: it improves your adaptability and your GPP without overtaxing any single metabolic pathway or group of muscles. But for someone who wants to excel in one activity--a specialist--that's also its weakness.

It's worth noting that the vast majority of people aren't in fact seeking huge muscles, elite-level powerlifting totals, OR fast marathon times. They want to be generally fit. And for them, it works great--a thousand times better than the machine- and treadmill-based workouts that most people do at corporate gyms.

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anthropocentric
Level 1

Join date: May 2007
Location: Washington, USA
Posts: 547

I'm not really for what CrossFit represents, but we've already framed this discussion at the level of conditioning -- not marketing.

For someone who owns a CF gym, they may be able to do some strength work in the morning and then the WOD later in the day. These gyms also tend to have a decent array of conditioning equipment.

Pros of crossfit:
-Be well conditioned
-Access to a certain type of community
-Opportunities to learn many skills
-Many training apparatus

Cons:
-Instructor quality varies
-Expensive
-Potentially dangerous
-Lack of short and long term goals (periodization)

In reality, CF has already arrived. And it means different things to different people. The main consistencies are circuit training, posted scores, and paying dues to CF HQ.

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themumbler
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Join date: Oct 2009
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 188

viper0213 wrote:
Damn, so I guess according to this arguement I'm not a powerlifter since I don't follow 5/3/1 top the letter, or a bodybuilder for that matter. Well hell what am I? Anyone? Especially since I improved my bench from 405-425, Dead 405-565, Squat 450-525 in a years time by reading, studying multiple programs and logs. Guess I better stop attending powerlifting events too.


No, you're just not doing 5/3/1. No one said that powerlifting is 5/3/1. There are many different powerlifting programs and systems.



Wow, I watched a young lady drop 20lbs in a month by following WOD, crossbrandX style, scaled workouts. I guess I better tell her that what she is doing is basically exercising and nothing more. Also, stop telling me she is doing crossfit since she isn't following the principles to the letter. Man, she is really going to be dissappointed.


Scaling down is part of Crossfit's philosophy. So she is doing Crosshit, which is exercising and nothing more. But why would she be disappointed?

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themumbler
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Join date: Oct 2009
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 188

dynamicfitness wrote:
CrossFit NEVER claimed to get anyone to elite level at anything but general across-the-board fitness. It won't get someone to a 700 pound deadlift or a blinding-fast 5K. Founder Glassman has explicitly said as much numerous times. But it can get someone to a RESPECTABLE level at both challenges--and more.


Actually, Glassman has claimed that doing just the WOD, and pulling heavy 3-4 times per year will get you to a 500-750 lb. deadlift


CrossFit's strength is its lack of specialization: it improves your adaptability and your GPP without overtaxing any single metabolic pathway or group of muscles. But for someone who wants to excel in one activity--a specialist--that's also its weakness.


Even if you're not after a specific goal, you're still better off focusing on 1-2 qualities at a time, and rotating them in blocks. This doesn't mean if your focus is strength you can't do any Met-Con, just that trying to get good at everything at once only makes you mediocre at everything and good at nothing. Also, focusing on strength is almost always a good idea, because strength has a carry over effect to so many different qualities.


It's worth noting that the vast majority of people aren't in fact seeking huge muscles, elite-level powerlifting totals, OR fast marathon times. They want to be generally fit. And for them, it works great--a thousand times better than the machine- and treadmill-based workouts that most people do at corporate gyms.


I'll give you this one, with one qualifier:
High-rep weightlifting (O-lifting) is retarded.

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