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Conditioning
 
Best Conditioning While Bulking?
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Vladamir
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What is the conditioning exercises to do when you are trying to add weight?

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justrob
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I'll no doubt get flamed for this around here but stay away from HIIT, complexes, sprints or anything similarly intense.

When you're bulking, low to moderate intensity cardio (whatever you like - jogging, swimming, exercise bike) 30-45 minutes 3 times a week is best.

Nothing that will take away from your recovery from the weights - but enough to keep BF under control and keep your heart and body in general in reasonable shape.

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Alex Good
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Join date: Feb 2011
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justrob wrote:
I'll no doubt get flamed for this around here but stay away from HIIT, complexes, sprints or anything similarly intense.

When you're bulking, low to moderate intensity cardio (whatever you like - jogging, swimming, exercise bike) 30-45 minutes 3 times a week is best.

Nothing that will take away from your recovery from the weights - but enough to keep BF under control and keep your heart and body in general in reasonable shape.



The opposite of what he said.

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PlainPat
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Prowler/Complexes just for recovery. Fuck steady state unless you're a bodybuilder/athlete whos dieting for competition and you really CANT have it take away from what you're already doing.

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666Rich
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Join date: May 2006
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I disagree with all of the above posters.

OP: What are you conditioning FOR? Are you trying to get bigger and also more conditioned for Football? Basketball, fighting? Bigger and less fat? All of these require different methods of "conditioning"

Once you establish that, believe you can be helped further.

and "fuck steady state" as an argument is a pretty debunked and stupid argument.

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chillain
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no matter the goal, steady state generally has its place (only true drawback is that its a timesink)

but from the 'use it or lose it' school of thought, sprints would also be in order

ultimately a personal decision, but I wouldn't consider it a "success" to add 40lbs while losing the ability to sprint (but again, that's just me)

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DarkNinjaa
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Alex Good wrote:
justrob wrote:
I'll no doubt get flamed for this around here but stay away from HIIT, complexes, sprints or anything similarly intense.

When you're bulking, low to moderate intensity cardio (whatever you like - jogging, swimming, exercise bike) 30-45 minutes 3 times a week is best.

Nothing that will take away from your recovery from the weights - but enough to keep BF under control and keep your heart and body in general in reasonable shape.



The opposite of what he said.


x2

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orcrist
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Focus on activities that help you recover from heavy lifting. Simmons and Thibs both advocate eccentric-less training (sleds, dragging, sprints, etc.) I have also seen guys get a lot of recovery benefit from yoga, though this will not get you into great shape on its own.

Its Winter here, so I am doing plate pushes all over my basement. I also have access to some long stair wells. I climb up 200 steps a couple times during the day. Gets the HR up just enough, and doesn't detract from my lifting because I only go up, not down.

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PlainPat
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666Rich wrote:
I disagree with all of the above posters.

OP: What are you conditioning FOR? Are you trying to get bigger and also more conditioned for Football? Basketball, fighting? Bigger and less fat? All of these require different methods of "conditioning"

Once you establish that, believe you can be helped further.

and "fuck steady state" as an argument is a pretty debunked and stupid argument.


Why is that a stupid argument? I don't believe steady state has a place if you are someone whos simply trying to get in better shape. If you were someone who had to specifically drop fat weight then yes it does, because you can't afford to do anything more taxing in a caloric deficit. Hell even then I'd include prowler, sprints, and sleds.

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666Rich
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Without going around and bringing up numerous scientific studies regarding it I will simply explain.

Steady State is long duration moderate intensity cardio with a HR range between 130-150. At around 60 minutes the stroke volume in the left ventricle reaches its maximal capacity. This type of conditioning makes the heart alot more efficient. The general adaptations will be reduced resting heart rate, and better recovery times for people/atheletes. You will also be able to work at higher intensities for longer before tapping into your anaerobic state.

This doesnt have to be something like "jogging"....in fact commonly what is referred to as GPP is pretty similar. plate pushes, shadowboxing, cals, kettlebells...etc done continuously for 60-120minutes.

Someone who is aerobically deconditioned will simply not get the maximal benefits from things like intervals etc...because they simply will not be able to recover completely to gain from repeated efforts.


Once again, referring to my previous analysis.... "better shape for what". Different activities have different energy system demands. Most sports training programs are based around some form of periodization which includes a general conditioning phase, things like "LSD" or GPP...before getting into more interval intensive work.


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justrob
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666Rich wrote:
Steady State is long duration moderate intensity cardio with a HR range between 130-150. At around 60 minutes the stroke volume in the left ventricle reaches its maximal capacity. This type of conditioning makes the heart alot more efficient. The general adaptations will be reduced resting heart rate, and better recovery times for people/atheletes. You will also be able to work at higher intensities for longer before tapping into your anaerobic state.

This doesnt have to be something like "jogging"....in fact commonly what is referred to as GPP is pretty similar. plate pushes, shadowboxing, cals, kettlebells...etc done continuously for 60-120minutes.

Someone who is aerobically deconditioned will simply not get the maximal benefits from things like intervals etc...because they simply will not be able to recover completely to gain from repeated efforts.

Once again, referring to my previous analysis.... "better shape for what". Different activities have different energy system demands. Most sports training programs are based around some form of periodization which includes a general conditioning phase, things like "LSD" or GPP...before getting into more interval intensive work.


Great post, and spells out part of the rationale for my unpopular response (at least unpopular around these forums).

There is a place for all types of conditioning, but what you choose should depend on your goals.

We're talking about bulking here. We're not talking about training to become an athlete, for football, martial arts etc.

The goal with bulking is not to have any type of other activity that substantially drains your recovery outside of the weights. Particularly one that uses predominantly the same energy substrates.

I've done all types of conditioning and so have my athletes, including while trying to gain mass and strength.

Sure you CAN do intense conditioning while trying to bulk up and still gain - your gains in the gym will just be slower. You find yourself having to deload more often, having to introduce variety into your programs more often (every 6 weeks or so, instead of every 3-6 months). All because your body is trying to serve 2 demanding masters.

Steady state is not as sexy nowadays as HIIT/intervals/sprints etc, but it gets the job done when you're bulking.

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PlainPat
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666Rich wrote:
Without going around and bringing up numerous scientific studies regarding it I will simply explain.

Steady State is long duration moderate intensity cardio with a HR range between 130-150. At around 60 minutes the stroke volume in the left ventricle reaches its maximal capacity. This type of conditioning makes the heart alot more efficient. The general adaptations will be reduced resting heart rate, and better recovery times for people/atheletes. You will also be able to work at higher intensities for longer before tapping into your anaerobic state.

This doesnt have to be something like "jogging"....in fact commonly what is referred to as GPP is pretty similar. plate pushes, shadowboxing, cals, kettlebells...etc done continuously for 60-120minutes.

Someone who is aerobically deconditioned will simply not get the maximal benefits from things like intervals etc...because they simply will not be able to recover completely to gain from repeated efforts.


Once again, referring to my previous analysis.... "better shape for what". Different activities have different energy system demands. Most sports training programs are based around some form of periodization which includes a general conditioning phase, things like "LSD" or GPP...before getting into more interval intensive work.




Whatever honestly my experience as a wrestler was that steady state didn't do shit for me ever. All it ever did was drain me even more. Prowler work and hill sprints worked and allowed me to keep getting stronger while I lost weight in prep for the season.

So do whatever honestly OP, this is my personal experience and thats all I have to say.

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Spidey22
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justrob wrote:

The goal with bulking is not to have any type of other activity that substantially drains your recovery outside of the weights.


I don't agree with this at all. The goal for MOST when bulking, is to put on as much muscle mass as possible. So if someone can do something like sled pulls or Prowler sprints, and not only be able get conditioning in, while getting the added benefit of a bit more potential leg hypertrophy, wouldn't that be the best option?? At least for bulking?

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justrob
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Spidey22 wrote:

I don't agree with this at all. The goal for MOST when bulking, is to put on as much muscle mass as possible. So if someone can do something like sled pulls or Prowler sprints, and not only be able get conditioning in, while getting the added benefit of a bit more potential leg hypertrophy, wouldn't that be the best option?? At least for bulking?


Personally if I had extra recovery ability, I'd rather do more leg work in the gym instead of upping my intensity on the cardio.

But as Pat said above, whatever works for you.

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SKELAC
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Vladamir wrote:
What is the conditioning exercises to do when you are trying to add weight?


chewing all the food should be plenty.

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justrob
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SKELAC wrote:
Vladamir wrote:
What is the conditioning exercises to do when you are trying to add weight?


chewing all the food should be plenty.


Or as the fatass powerlifter said when asked about his cardio, "Weeell, sometimes I do sets of 5."

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SKELAC
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justrob wrote:
SKELAC wrote:
Vladamir wrote:
What is the conditioning exercises to do when you are trying to add weight?


chewing all the food should be plenty.


Or as the fatass powerlifter said when asked about his cardio, "Weeell, sometimes I do sets of 5."


hahahahaaha!!! or anything more than 2 reps is body building! :))

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PlainPat
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justrob wrote:
Spidey22 wrote:

I don't agree with this at all. The goal for MOST when bulking, is to put on as much muscle mass as possible. So if someone can do something like sled pulls or Prowler sprints, and not only be able get conditioning in, while getting the added benefit of a bit more potential leg hypertrophy, wouldn't that be the best option?? At least for bulking?


Personally if I had extra recovery ability, I'd rather do more leg work in the gym instead of upping my intensity on the cardio.

But as Pat said above, whatever works for you.


Prowler is harder leg work as far as I'm concerned. Depending on how you push/pull.

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Ayliffe
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Join date: May 2011
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It comes down to this:

Are you a pussy? Go walk or jog then.

or are you willing to bust your fucking ass to reach your goals? Then go sprint a hill till you puke, or push a prowler till you cant anymore. Then do it again.

This isnt some macho bullshit, its the truth. Hard work pays off. End of story.

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SKELAC
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Ayliffe wrote:
It comes down to this:

Are you a pussy? Go walk or jog then.

or are you willing to bust your fucking ass to reach your goals? Then go sprint a hill till you puke, or push a prowler till you cant anymore. Then do it again.

This isnt some macho bullshit, its the truth. Hard work pays off. End of story.


Wendler-wannabe,eh? theres more to conditioning than hill sprints,Prowler pushing

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FightinIrish26
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PlainPat wrote:
Fuck steady state unless you're a bodybuilder/athlete whos dieting for competition and you really CANT have it take away from what you're already doing.


"Fuck steady state" = internet guru bullshit.

Running a few miles at a time at a solid pace is one of the best things you can do for yourself, regardless of what you're trying to accomplish.

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PlainPat
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FightinIrish26 wrote:
PlainPat wrote:
Fuck steady state unless you're a bodybuilder/athlete whos dieting for competition and you really CANT have it take away from what you're already doing.


"Fuck steady state" = internet guru bullshit.

Running a few miles at a time at a solid pace is one of the best things you can do for yourself, regardless of what you're trying to accomplish.


Like I previously stated, everything is from my experience as an athlete and nothing else. I have never found in my athletic career that long, steady state jogging/running/walking has helped my performance.

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whatever2k
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FightinIrish26 wrote:
PlainPat wrote:
Fuck steady state unless you're a bodybuilder/athlete whos dieting for competition and you really CANT have it take away from what you're already doing.


"Fuck steady state" = internet guru bullshit.

Running a few miles at a time at a solid pace is one of the best things you can do for yourself, regardless of what you're trying to accomplish.


Agreed. I found I got better at my 400m intervals after adding in longer duration runs anywhere from 3-8 km.

People who knock traditional roadwork usually are the same people who dont bother going at it intense. Offcourse its ineffective if you traul away at the treadmill at 6kmh without breaking a sweat.

A hard 3-5k uphill run leaves me gasping for air and has improved my cardio tremendously in a short period of time.

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Ayliffe
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Join date: May 2011
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SKELAC wrote:
Ayliffe wrote:
It comes down to this:

Are you a pussy? Go walk or jog then.

or are you willing to bust your fucking ass to reach your goals? Then go sprint a hill till you puke, or push a prowler till you cant anymore. Then do it again.

This isnt some macho bullshit, its the truth. Hard work pays off. End of story.


Wendler-wannabe,eh? theres more to conditioning than hill sprints,Prowler pushing


The point wasnt to say those are the only two ways anyone should condition, obviously there are other ways to do it. The point, sir, is that working hard to achieve something will work better 100% of the time. Walking or jogging is not working hard, it is pretending to work hard. Prowler pushes for example, will do nothing bad for someone bulking, sure they burn some calories, but they should be eating enough, to only make them stronger and faster. Walking on a tread mill will do none of that.

Wendler isnt the only person with common sense.

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SKELAC
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Ayliffe wrote:
SKELAC wrote:
Ayliffe wrote:
It comes down to this:

Are you a pussy? Go walk or jog then.

or are you willing to bust your fucking ass to reach your goals? Then go sprint a hill till you puke, or push a prowler till you cant anymore. Then do it again.

This isnt some macho bullshit, its the truth. Hard work pays off. End of story.


Wendler-wannabe,eh? theres more to conditioning than hill sprints,Prowler pushing


The point wasnt to say those are the only two ways anyone should condition, obviously there are other ways to do it. The point, sir, is that working hard to achieve something will work better 100% of the time. Walking or jogging is not working hard, it is pretending to work hard. Prowler pushes for example, will do nothing bad for someone bulking, sure they burn some calories, but they should be eating enough, to only make them stronger and faster. Walking on a tread mill will do none of that.

Wendler isnt the only person with common sense.


there are always trends and majority are trend -followers.I did hill sprints 15 years ago,still do them occasionaly among other things.A sound non-specific conditioning plan is put together based on why,at what cost,when,how often,how intense.Many methods are used as any serious athlete knows and practises.
A prowler is a fucking gimmick made to make money.Its product of insane powerlifting minds who decided that to condition to lift more weight they should push some weight.

And,by the way,that the hell happened to sled dragging? :))

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