The Intelligent & Relentless Pursuit of Muscle™
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The Perfect Rep
 

Christian Thibaudeau
Contributor

Join date: Feb 2003
Posts: 21216

youngoldguy wrote:I'll join the others and say thank you; I sincerely appreciate the quick response and all the great --free -- information you share with us.


No problem... it's either answering questions or:

a) taking out the garbage
b) shoveling the driveway
c) cleaning the house

Not now honey... I'm working!

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alfalphie2
Level

Join date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3

Christian Thibaudeau wrote:


Maybe the fact that I read the question at 3 in the morning had something to do with it :) Sorry.



I can't tell if you are actually "sorry", or if you're just saying that. In any case, you were up till 5:55am and I'm sure you're not a troll...Why can't it be any different for someone else?

Regardless. I've read and watched all of the IBB videos and articles, and I've been giving it a try for 3 workouts so far. The IBB intro video talks about you guys gaining somewhere around 25-30lbs of muscle in a month or two.

I'm 6'2" 170lbs and about 6% bf. From what the IBB intro video is telling me, I should be at least 190lbs with same bf% in about a month or so. I'm really going to try it. I'm going to follow everything you've suggested and see if it works.

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Christian Thibaudeau
Contributor

Join date: Feb 2003
Posts: 21216

Ksparx wrote:
Hey Coach!

I tried the max force rep with legs today, just to get a feeling of how it works. And i must say i felt pretty darn good with the 2 feel sets 6x3 MFR.. Did some squat and deadlift with the MFR and still felt i could push it!

Now, after the squat and deadlift i wanted to do some leg extenssions and leg curls, but really only could bring a half assed effort 'cause i felt very drained. Don't know why, i even had my pre-workout drinks and some under the workout.. maybe my CNS was banged out after the first two exercises?


You basically did 36 max effort reps! On two of the most demanding lifts on top of that. I'm not surprised that you didn't have anything left for the isolation work.

This is a good example of how powerful a repetition done with this style is. In a regular set, if you are lucky one third of the reps will require a high level of effort. With this style, they all are max efforts.

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BBriere
Level 2

Join date: Dec 2008
Posts: 742

Coach,

Would doing a set of 100+ reps be beneficial with this type of training? I know before you've written about how ultra high-rep sets can help bring nutrients to muscles and tendons, but I didn't know if it would take away from the benefit of max force lifting or not.

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Ksparx
Level

Join date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5

Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Ksparx wrote:
Hey Coach!

I tried the max force rep with legs today, just to get a feeling of how it works. And i must say i felt pretty darn good with the 2 feel sets 6x3 MFR.. Did some squat and deadlift with the MFR and still felt i could push it!

Now, after the squat and deadlift i wanted to do some leg extenssions and leg curls, but really only could bring a half assed effort 'cause i felt very drained. Don't know why, i even had my pre-workout drinks and some under the workout.. maybe my CNS was banged out after the first two exercises?


You basically did 36 max effort reps! On two of the most demanding lifts on top of that. I'm not surprised that you didn't have anything left for the isolation work.

This is a good example of how powerful a repetition done with this style is. In a regular set, if you are lucky one third of the reps will require a high level of effort. With this style, they all are max efforts.


Would you recommend to split Quads and Hams to different workouts on the same day with max effort reps or do them on two separate days just to get the isolation work covered, or just do the compound lifts and leave the isolation exercises?

Also, would the max effort reps still be something you would recommend in a fat loss phase? Or would it be too demanding on the CNS when you don't get your carbs?

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Mutsanah
Level 10

Join date: Jan 2010
Posts: 797

alfalphie2 wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:


Maybe the fact that I read the question at 3 in the morning had something to do with it :) Sorry.



I can't tell if you are actually "sorry", or if you're just saying that. In any case, you were up till 5:55am and I'm sure you're not a troll...Why can't it be any different for someone else?

Regardless. I've read and watched all of the IBB videos and articles, and I've been giving it a try for 3 workouts so far. The IBB intro video talks about you guys gaining somewhere around 25-30lbs of muscle in a month or two.

I'm 6'2" 170lbs and about 6% bf. From what the IBB intro video is telling me, I should be at least 190lbs with same bf% in about a month or so. I'm really going to try it. I'm going to follow everything you've suggested and see if it works.


------------------

Have you ever been 190 lbs. lean before? I wouldn't set yourself up for the disappointment of not getting a 20lb gain in 30 days. Remember, the boys in IBB video have highly trained CNS and muscle memory + extreme intensity, genetics superior protocols and the list goes on... Gaining 20 lbs. lean mass with no BF gain in 30 days - sounds like a commercial.

P.S. When someone says they're sorry, rejecting their apology really doesn't gain you any respect.

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Christian Thibaudeau
Contributor

Join date: Feb 2003
Posts: 21216

BBriere wrote:
Coach,

Would doing a set of 100+ reps be beneficial with this type of training? I know before you've written about how ultra high-rep sets can help bring nutrients to muscles and tendons, but I didn't know if it would take away from the benefit of max force lifting or not.


As an ACTIVE RECOVERY method, sure, it can have it's place. I already answered a similar question in my forum.

Basically make those 100 reps as low-stress as possible... not anywhere near muscle failure... minimize accumulation of lactate (take short breaks every 10 or so reps if needed) try to do the reps with as little force as possible, just enough to get the job done (basically the exact opposite of the perfect rep).

It WILL NOT improve growth, but it can improve recovery.

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Christian Thibaudeau
Contributor

Join date: Feb 2003
Posts: 21216

Ksparx wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Ksparx wrote:
Hey Coach!

I tried the max force rep with legs today, just to get a feeling of how it works. And i must say i felt pretty darn good with the 2 feel sets 6x3 MFR.. Did some squat and deadlift with the MFR and still felt i could push it!

Now, after the squat and deadlift i wanted to do some leg extenssions and leg curls, but really only could bring a half assed effort 'cause i felt very drained. Don't know why, i even had my pre-workout drinks and some under the workout.. maybe my CNS was banged out after the first two exercises?


You basically did 36 max effort reps! On two of the most demanding lifts on top of that. I'm not surprised that you didn't have anything left for the isolation work.

This is a good example of how powerful a repetition done with this style is. In a regular set, if you are lucky one third of the reps will require a high level of effort. With this style, they all are max efforts.


Would you recommend to split Quads and Hams to different workouts on the same day with max effort reps or do them on two separate days just to get the isolation work covered, or just do the compound lifts and leave the isolation exercises?



Both options can be done. Isolation for legs is rarely needed (only for those with very long legs); at least it is much less often needed than upper body isolation.

I personally don't like to do deadlifts and squats on the same day, takes too much out of me and hard to perform optimally on both. But Tate is now doing both a max effort deadlift and max effort squat exercise on the same day... that workouts lasts over 3 hours though (lots of rest).

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Christian Thibaudeau
Contributor

Join date: Feb 2003
Posts: 21216

alfalphie2 wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:


Maybe the fact that I read the question at 3 in the morning had something to do with it :) Sorry.



I can't tell if you are actually "sorry", or if you're just saying that. In any case, you were up till 5:55am and I'm sure you're not a troll...Why can't it be any different for someone else?

Regardless. I've read and watched all of the IBB videos and articles, and I've been giving it a try for 3 workouts so far. The IBB intro video talks about you guys gaining somewhere around 25-30lbs of muscle in a month or two.

I'm 6'2" 170lbs and about 6% bf. From what the IBB intro video is telling me, I should be at least 190lbs with same bf% in about a month or so. I'm really going to try it. I'm going to follow everything you've suggested and see if it works.


I talked about the weight gain issue in the past. I was coming off of a diet and the two other guys were just starting contest prep after a few months of easier training. We all gained faster than ever before, but it would be unfair to say that those gains are typical. Actually in the first article (that came out at the same time as the video) it is mentioned that a gain of 20lbs in THREE months is a target to shoot for, not in one month!!!

But it also depends on your genetic potential. I've seen an average gain of 15lbs in 10 weeks with guys I worked directly with, some gained more, some less.

The lowest gainer was around 9lbs in 10 weeks. But we're talking about a 60 years old firefighter competing in the Firefit games (won 4 medals, 3 golds at the World Police and Firemen Games); for his training he had to do tons of interval and GPP work with little actual hypertrophy training (compared to a bodybuilder or strength athlete).

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Ksparx
Level

Join date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5

Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Ksparx wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Ksparx wrote:
Hey Coach!

I tried the max force rep with legs today, just to get a feeling of how it works. And i must say i felt pretty darn good with the 2 feel sets 6x3 MFR.. Did some squat and deadlift with the MFR and still felt i could push it!

Now, after the squat and deadlift i wanted to do some leg extenssions and leg curls, but really only could bring a half assed effort 'cause i felt very drained. Don't know why, i even had my pre-workout drinks and some under the workout.. maybe my CNS was banged out after the first two exercises?


You basically did 36 max effort reps! On two of the most demanding lifts on top of that. I'm not surprised that you didn't have anything left for the isolation work.

This is a good example of how powerful a repetition done with this style is. In a regular set, if you are lucky one third of the reps will require a high level of effort. With this style, they all are max efforts.


Would you recommend to split Quads and Hams to different workouts on the same day with max effort reps or do them on two separate days just to get the isolation work covered, or just do the compound lifts and leave the isolation exercises?



Both options can be done. Isolation for legs is rarely needed (only for those with very long legs); at least it is much less often needed than upper body isolation.

I personally don't like to do deadlifts and squats on the same day, takes too much out of me and hard to perform optimally on both. But Tate is now doing both a max effort deadlift and max effort squat exercise on the same day... that workouts lasts over 3 hours though (lots of rest).


So you wouldn't train quads/hams and chest/back on the same day with the max effort rep?

Don't really get why Tate's workout lasts over 3 hours, cause as i recall you said to use a brisk workout pace with little rest periods?

BTW i'm 6'1, so maybe i do need isolation workouts for my legs? :)

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Christian Thibaudeau
Contributor

Join date: Feb 2003
Posts: 21216

Ksparx wrote:
So you wouldn't train quads/hams and chest/back on the same day with the max effort rep?

Don't really get why Tate's workout lasts over 3 hours, cause as i recall you said to use a brisk workout pace with little rest periods?

BTW i'm 6'1, so maybe i do need isolation workouts for my legs? :)


1. It's not that I would do that, I simply can't max out on two big movements like the full squat and the deadlift from the floor. With lifts with a less complex structure, or a lesser effect on the nervous system, sure. The following for the lower body would probably be possible:

- Back squat and pin pull from above the knees
- Deadlift and leg press
- Front squat and romanian deadlift

I personally have one main squat workout and one main deadlift workout. I feel that I get give a better effort to both movements this way. But there is more than one way to skin a cat.

2. They warm-up for about 30-45 minutes doing lots of foam rolling, myofascial release, general activation stuff.

They also lift huge weights. If you are gonna squat 900lbs in a workout you needs lots of set to ramp up to your top sets. They actually start lighter than 50%, they often start with just the bar and gradually work up... this is basically an extension of their general warm-up, to grease the groove sorta speak.

They have around 20 guys training at the same time, in groups of 5-7 guys. So they have at least 7 minutes between attemps, often more (when they get to the bigger weights).

There is a lot of coaching and technical work being done. Understand that their weekend sessions are the only ones where the whole crew gets together. These sessions are the occasion for them to ger coaching on their technique. In a sense, these weekend sessions are kinda like any sports practice.

Yes I'm for a brisk workout pace. But there is also the specificity factor to consider. In powerlifting meets you often have 10 minutes or more between attempts. A full meet often lasts 10+ hours. They actually have to get use to long waits between attempts to perform optimally under contest conditions.

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