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T NATION
Moderator
Join date: May 1998
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Posts: 10297
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I,BODYBUILDER - PHASE 4
by Tim Patterson and Christian Thibaudeau
02/26/10
No hype, no exaggeration, pure and simple, build muscle as fast as humanly possible. More specifically, build muscle as fast as humanly possible — week after week — until you see a body in the mirror that you barely recognize. That's radical hypertrophy, bubba, and that's exactly what this program's all about.
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BigJackedBro
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Join date: Dec 2009
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First
Kevin is looking ripped pre contest! A little bit dazed as well though ;)
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Christian Thibaudeau
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Join date: Feb 2003
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BigJackedBro wrote:
First
To be qualified as ''first post'' there should be something meaningful included in said post :)
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SWAT06
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Join date: Aug 2008
Location: France
Posts: 71
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compared to other muscle groups, labor pecs is less diversified, few different exercises.
it goes straight to the point. excellent
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BigJackedBro
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Join date: Dec 2009
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Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
BigJackedBro wrote:
First
To be qualified as ''first post'' there should be something meaningful included in said post :)
My bad, I just got excited.
What is the difference between floor press and bench press from pins? Aren't they both limited range of motion presses with pauses at the bottom? Or is just the clusters and ratchets that make the difference?
Also, when using capacity ramping, why does it go 3,4,5 are the first 2 sets to prime the body, why not just do 6 straight sets of 5.
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D.Smith
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Join date: Dec 2008
Location: England
Posts: 2
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Coach CT.
I'd just like to reiterate what has been said time and time again; f***in' great programme construction, nice bit of innovation. This programme has produced some great gains and I have no doubts that this phase will continue to do so. However, just a query regarding exercise selction- although the barbell press provides it's inherent ability to develop strength, the dumbbell chest press has been found to be a superior chest stimulation exercise compared to that of the barbell. Is there any reason it's been left out this time round? Thanks again.
Dan.
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Christian Thibaudeau
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Join date: Feb 2003
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Posts: 18073
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BigJackedBro wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
BigJackedBro wrote:
First
To be qualified as ''first post'' there should be something meaningful included in said post :)
My bad, I just got excited.
What is the difference between floor press and bench press from pins? Aren't they both limited range of motion presses with pauses at the bottom? Or is just the clusters and ratchets that make the difference?
Also, when using capacity ramping, why does it go 3,4,5 are the first 2 sets to prime the body, why not just do 6 straight sets of 5.
During the floor press the muscles are still somewhat loade because you are holding the bar. From the pins, the bar rests on the pins and the body is completely unloaded.
Yes, the sets of 3 and 4 are to prime the body and get used to the weight. It also allows you to see if the load you selected is adequate without causing too much fatigue. For example, if you do 3 reps with 40lbs and it feels too easy you can adjust the weight before starting the real work sets.
BTW you do not necessarily do only 3 sets of 5 reps... you continue to perform sets of 5 reps until you can't get 5 anymore.
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Christian Thibaudeau
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D.Smith wrote:
Coach CT.
I'd just like to reiterate what has been said time and time again; f***in' great programme construction, nice bit of innovation. This programme has produced some great gains and I have no doubts that this phase will continue to do so. However, just a query regarding exercise selction- although the barbell press provides it's inherent ability to develop strength, the dumbbell chest press has been found to be a superior chest stimulation exercise compared to that of the barbell. Is there any reason it's been left out this time round? Thanks again.
Dan.
1. I personally am not a dumbbell guy, so I might be biased by not including as much DB press as barbell pressing.
2. A guy who is remotely strong will use 120-150lbs dumbbells when performing sets of 3 reps. I find that when using such load the problem is bringing the DB into position and returning them when the set is over. I have seen a lot of injuries occur this way.
3. On day 1, I wanted to use a partial movement that would directly activate the second and third exercise. So all three movements (or at least the first two) need to use the same training apparatus (a barbell in this case). Doing pin presses with dumbbells is kinda hard to do :)
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CAODEMARTE
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Join date: Oct 2005
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 59
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Since you are using a thick bar throughout is there any reason why you seem to specify a thick bar on (and only on) Wednesday's "Thick-Bar Bench Press" set (rather than just "bench press")?
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Christian Thibaudeau
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CAODEMARTE wrote:
Since you are using a thick bar throughout is there any reason why you seem to specify a thick bar on (and only on) Wednesday's "Thick-Bar Bench Press" set (rather than just "bench press")?
I'm not the one who does the software programming.
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Shlllink
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Join date: Apr 2009
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Why is there only 1 incline exercise in a week with 3 chest days? For people with poor upper chest development (like myself), I feel like having so many flat exercises and only one incline exercise would cause such an imbalance to either remain the same or possibly get worse.
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Efuchs7
Level 4
Join date: Jan 2009
Location: California, USA
Posts: 512
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awesome videos again you guys delivered. There were also some artsy shots like with Kevin's eyes and the weird one with the window where it appears yellow... Enjoyed hearing his breathing on the step ups. Thanks again and I can't wait to see the transition...
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florelius
Level 0
Join date: Jan 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 2069
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great videos Thib and rest of the guys behind I,BODYBUILDER. I am not following the program, but I find the videos very motivating before a session. thanks for all this great info :)
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Christian Thibaudeau
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Shlllink wrote:
Why is there only 1 incline exercise in a week with 3 chest days? For people with poor upper chest development (like myself), I feel like having so many flat exercises and only one incline exercise would cause such an imbalance to either remain the same or possibly get worse.
From experience, incline pressing work doesn't really increase upper (clavicular) chest activation. It simply switches more stress to the shoulders.
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pumped340
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Join date: Jul 2008
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Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Shlllink wrote:
Why is there only 1 incline exercise in a week with 3 chest days? For people with poor upper chest development (like myself), I feel like having so many flat exercises and only one incline exercise would cause such an imbalance to either remain the same or possibly get worse.
From experience, incline pressing work doesn't really increase upper (clavicular) chest activation. It simply switches more stress to the shoulders.
Wow really? Any way you know of to hit the upper chest more effectively than just traditional flat bench exercises? And given what you said is there any point in incline flies since it will just result in lower poundages and apparently no more chest stimulation (or apparently less)?
The chest specialization looks like an awesome set up, I'm definitely looking forward to giving the entire program a run through after I reach my current goals
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Christian Thibaudeau
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pumped340 wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Shlllink wrote:
Why is there only 1 incline exercise in a week with 3 chest days? For people with poor upper chest development (like myself), I feel like having so many flat exercises and only one incline exercise would cause such an imbalance to either remain the same or possibly get worse.
From experience, incline pressing work doesn't really increase upper (clavicular) chest activation. It simply switches more stress to the shoulders.
Wow really? Any way you know of to hit the upper chest more effectively than just traditional flat bench exercises? And given what you said is there any point in incline flies since it will just result in lower poundages and apparently no more chest stimulation (or apparently less)?
The chest specialization looks like an awesome set up, I'm definitely looking forward to giving the entire program a run through after I reach my current goals
I said that incline PRESSING simply activate more deltoid without working the clavicular portion of the chest more. With flies it's not the same thing.
I found the best upper chest exercises to be the wide grip bench press to the neck (guillotine press)
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Roygion
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Join date: Dec 2009
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When I studied under Gironda (circa 1980), he also used the Neck Press ("guillotine press" with a wide grip) for clavicular chest. His version employed a 10-degree incline and was taken to the clavicles on the lowering. Was a bit rough on my shoulders (and others with long limbs) though some did OK with it. The Incline Fly, as done in this series, seems ideal for the purpose.
The IBB series is the best info I've ever seen on the net or in personal paid tutorials. The Perfect Rep concept alone is invaluable. Terrific work, from Thibs teaching, to the varied camera angles, down to the great page layout and text descriptions. Congrats to all who produced this.
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Ivanko10
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What different effect do you get from doing Top Half, Close-Grip Bench Press from Pins, compared with regular Glose-Grip Bench Press?
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liffy
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With the top-half you are able to load the bar heavier, as well as not being able to "bounce" the bar up from the bottom position, because the bar is resting on the pins.
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Thy.
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Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
During the floor press the muscles are still somewhat loade because you are holding the bar. From the pins, the bar rests on the pins and the body is completely unloaded.
Do you think the involvement of other muscles (legs, back) is also minimized in floor press making it more of a purely upper body push lift ?
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Eazy
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Join date: Jun 2006
Location: Ohio, USA
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Coach, First, how would you re-order the workout days in each phase if you couldn't train on Tuesday's but could on Sunday? Or in other words I have Mon/Wed/Fri/Sat/Sun available.
Secondly, I have a home set-up not that far from what I believe you have, i've got a rack w/Pull-up/Chin-up bar, 2-olympic bars, dumbbells, bands, 6lb, 10lb med balls. So i'm curious, in your opinion, how workable the entire program could be if you don't have access to the various machines used here and there throughout the program? Or would that be bastardizing it too much?
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BantamRunner
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Join date: Mar 2009
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Any reason why you included tricep work on Wednesday, a chest specialization day? I find this odd because in all of the other phases the specialization days deal only with that week's "muscle".
The machine press you're using I'm guessing is a hammer strength or another unilateral machine. What do you think about those doing the program who lack any sort of unilateral bench subbing in a DB Bench....that would also quell any reservations people have about the lack of DB pressing in the program.
Alan
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Christian Thibaudeau
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BantamRunner wrote:
Any reason why you included tricep work on Wednesday, a chest specialization day? I find this odd because in all of the other phases the specialization days deal only with that week's "muscle".
The machine press you're using I'm guessing is a hammer strength or another unilateral machine. What do you think about those doing the program who lack any sort of unilateral bench subbing in a DB Bench....that would also quell any reservations people have about the lack of DB pressing in the program.
Alan
When planning a spec phase I like to spec on one big muscle an one small synergistic muscle. For example, shoulders & traps, chest & triceps, quads, hams & some calves. I also often include biceps in a back phase. In fact, the back phase is the only phase where there is not a secondary muscle being trained. The reason is that the back is more complex structure, requiring more exercises.
As I mentioned earlier, I'm not a DB guy. If you want to do them, do them. The program is not set in stone. You can adapt it within reason as long as you maintain the basic principles and idea of the program.
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Vnation
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Join date: Jun 2008
Location: Illinois, USA
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Coach
I feel as if I most definatly am getting more of a powerlifting benefit form I, BodyBuilder than a hypertrophy one, meaning that the lifts are going up yet size is not.
I am predominatly slower twitch muscle and am wondering if that has any effect on a program specifically targeted for fast twitch fibers. basically what I am asking is beign slower twitch, would it be wise to make adaptations to the program or continue as perscribed.
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Christian Thibaudeau
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Vnation wrote:
coach
I feel as if I most definatly am getting more of a powerlifting benefit form I, bodybuilder than a hypertrophy one, meaning that the lifts are going up yet size is not. I am predominatly slower twitch muscle and am wondering if that has any effect on a program specifically targeted for fast twitch fibers. basically what I am asking is beign slower twitch, would it be wise to make adaptations to the program or continue as perscribed.
What is happening to you is typical of slow twitch individuals. The initial reaction would be to increase the reps to work more in a zone where your body is more efficient in.
Actually the correct approach is the opposite: stick to low reps, heavy and explosive work. Fast twitch fibers have the greater growth potential. While you cannot change your fiber dominance, with the proper training performed over long enough time, your slow and intermediate fibers can take on fast-twitch like properties and thus will have a greater growth potential.
So my recommendation is to stick with this form of training to ''reprogram'' your body. The hypertrophy benefits will eventually follow. Actually it will increase your potential to respond positively to any kinda of program in the future.
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