I'd like to point out the when you are doing an upright row, your shoulder is nearly maximally internally rotated. This alters which part of the Deltoid is put under stress.
Lateral raises are done with a neutral rotation, which shifts more stress onto the lateral portions of the shoulder. Please remember that the isn't a lateral head, the Deltoid is made up of 7 separately innervated muscle groups.
Neutral rotation puts stress right through the central heads of the Deltoid, with no rotational stress through the shoulder joint. And I don't care that you've already stated your theory if for fully healthy people, If you continuously preform any movement at high angles of internal or external rotation, you won't stay healthy for long.
That's why I do them with dumbells/Cables and role the shoulder forward slightly. It will involve slightly more rear deltoid than laterals, but is a solid compound movement for the lateral deltoid. I will often perform the machine laterals with the weight centered on the elbows, this is my favorite exercise, but nt many gyms have this machine so i didn't mention it. one of the major points of this thread was to help people (mainly beginners) realize how unnecessary movements with the arms straight are. I would agree that over time, if perform as they are traditionally, upright rows can cause issues....but so can alot of
Mate, no one is saying that upright rows aren't a solid move, people have been preforming them for years. But it can cause shoulder issues, and the deltoids will not be fully worked, as the deloid isn't the weakest link. I'm sure that to use enough weight with a dumbell for example, your grip would struggle.
Would you not recommend that newer guys preform both. There are benefits to both exercises, but if you only preform one, then you would be missing out on some stimulus.
I didn't say anyone said it wasn't a solid move. I simply said it was a better exercise than lateral raises because of ease of progression. You cannot possibly argue that it isn't superior in that sense. As far as its potential to cause injury, guaranteed more people have ruined their shoulder doing bench presses through a full range of motion than doing an upright row, yet if I said you should press through a half range of motion people would look at me crazy. There is always going to be an argument as too whether an exercise "works better for me" so there is no point in continuing this thread. All I wanted people to take away from this is to realize there are better exercises for the rear and lateral delts than rear fly an lateral raises.
i agree with what you wrote: " so there is no point in continuing this thread "
but after your post about BB simplicity i suggest you start an other thread. I injured myself in my first month because learning from books we have no clue wich author is worth it who is filling space books/articles.
Out of respect for BigBen0331 i do not feel comfortable going over his head asking questions to you on a tread he started.
You might expand on :
"Most of this is far from the truth. Especially when it comes to natural bb. Its not that hard to eat slightly above your maintenence calories(which is all that's required to build maximal muscle) .its not to hard to spark a growth stimulus in the muscle(doesn't take multiple sets of 10 different exercises). You certainly don't have to change your life to put on some muscle and supplements are .....well.........a waste of money (cept a good whey protein) I ...."
Stuff like what is enough stimulus... how to best invest 40 or 60 minutes 6 times weekly, etc..
All i read about train 1 time weekly split 4-5 ways is just irrelevant to me with very small muscles.
On the other end at 55 my goals are modest and doing under 5 reps is really not what i choose to do. Like you i believe in no bulk, no supplements for recreational trainers.