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Question About Pre-Fatiguing
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ironmanzvw
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Join date: Jul 2012
Posts: 734

Ok. So I want to start pre-fatiguing my pecs on chest day.

Do you perform the fatiguing exercises like a normal set, then move on to your primary lifts? Or do you treat it more like a reverse superset with longer breaks between exercises?

For instance, if using db flies to pre-fatigue...do I complete 3-4 sets of db flies then move onto my primary lift (flat bench, incline bench, machine press, etc.)? Or do I do a set of db flies, wait a minute or two then do a set of bench, and repeat?

Thanks!

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The Mighty Stu
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Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 9849

You can approach it in both manners. Which one would work for you will depend on how quickly your pre-fatigued muscles recover before the next set, or portion of a superset.

S

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BlueCollarTr8n
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Join date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2913

I like to move from the fly/peck-deck directly to the pressing motion without rest...superset style. Fly in the 15-20 rep range...presses in the 8-12 rep range.

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ironmanzvw
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Join date: Jul 2012
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The Mighty Stu wrote:
You can approach it in both manners. Which one would work for you will depend on how quickly your pre-fatigued muscles recover before the next set, or portion of a superset.

S



Thanks man.

I don't know if this affects the way I would approach this, but my one and only goal is hypertrophy.

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Mike T.
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Join date: Jan 2005
Posts: 705

So you're using pre-fatigue as like a warm-up it seems like. Personal opinion, but with pre-fatigue you only need like 1 -2 sets before you hit your "main" lift.
Rep range for the pre- fatigue should be double the reps of your "main" lift. Once again, personal experience.

So first pre-fatigue could be 16 reps with a considerable weight and usually slow tempo, rest the duration of your rest period and hit the flats. If you don't feel a pump coming on as you mount your "main" lift, hit a second set of your pre- fatigue.

Just an idea.

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PimpBot5000
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Join date: May 2008
Posts: 3639

Just to throw my hat in here, the best pre-fatigue sequence for chest that I have tried is 1 and 1/4 incline chest flyes (eccentric all the way to bottom, concentric one quarter of the way up, eccentric to bottom, concentric all the way up) followed by incline dumbbell presses. I use a very low incline for this.

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LankyMofo
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Join date: Nov 2007
Posts: 7694

I like using the pec deck for pre exhaust. I'll typically do 3 or so sets on the pec deck, then move onto my main lifts.

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Professor X
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Join date: Oct 2002
Posts: 51898

Why would I want to "pre-fatigue" my chest on CHEST DAY???

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flipcollar
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Join date: Feb 2010
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Professor X wrote:
Why would I want to "pre-fatigue" my chest on CHEST DAY???


Because we all know that every day is really about working arms.

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Professor X
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I guess that explains why mine keeps growing.

I'm doing it wrong.

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The3Commandments
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Professor X wrote:
I guess that explains why mine keeps growing.

I'm doing it wrong.


I think that "pre-fatiguing" wasn't the word the OP was looking for.

What Stu and BlueCollar described is really more about establishing the MMC and ensuring that the pressing movement will focus on the contraction. For me, at least, if I start out with a pressing motion my shoulders and tris will tend to get more involved if I haven't already warmed up with something that's a more "strictly chest" movement, like a fly.

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Professor X
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Join date: Oct 2002
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The3Commandments wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I guess that explains why mine keeps growing.

I'm doing it wrong.


I think that "pre-fatiguing" wasn't the word the OP was looking for.

What Stu and BlueCollar described is really more about establishing the MMC and ensuring that the pressing movement will focus on the contraction. For me, at least, if I start out with a pressing motion my shoulders and tris will tend to get more involved if I haven't already warmed up with something that's a more "strictly chest" movement, like a fly.



Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't.

I'm not sure...but warming up is on a different planet than "pre-fatigue". You usually only pre-fatigue a muscle if it is interfering or becoming the optimal mover in an exercise when the goal is another muscle group.

I don't "pre-fatigue" anything.

I warm up like crazy though now.

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Professor X
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Wait..I take that back...I do pre-fatigue my forearms because of the pain I get when curling. That is all I use it for. My forearms fire first (one reason I never had to train them directly) so fatiguing them means they fire less later in the workout when I go heavier on biceps.

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LankyMofo
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Join date: Nov 2007
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Professor X wrote:
The3Commandments wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I guess that explains why mine keeps growing.

I'm doing it wrong.


I think that "pre-fatiguing" wasn't the word the OP was looking for.

What Stu and BlueCollar described is really more about establishing the MMC and ensuring that the pressing movement will focus on the contraction. For me, at least, if I start out with a pressing motion my shoulders and tris will tend to get more involved if I haven't already warmed up with something that's a more "strictly chest" movement, like a fly.



Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't.

I'm not sure...but warming up is on a different planet than "pre-fatigue". You usually only pre-fatigue a muscle if it is interfering or becoming the optimal mover in an exercise when the goal is another muscle group.

I don't "pre-fatigue" anything.

I warm up like crazy though now.


I personally find the opposite. I find that if I pre exhaust my triceps before working my shoulders, my triceps end up failing before my shoulders and I get a less than stellar shoulder workout.

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Professor X
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Join date: Oct 2002
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LankyMofo wrote:
Professor X wrote:
The3Commandments wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I guess that explains why mine keeps growing.

I'm doing it wrong.


I think that "pre-fatiguing" wasn't the word the OP was looking for.

What Stu and BlueCollar described is really more about establishing the MMC and ensuring that the pressing movement will focus on the contraction. For me, at least, if I start out with a pressing motion my shoulders and tris will tend to get more involved if I haven't already warmed up with something that's a more "strictly chest" movement, like a fly.



Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't.

I'm not sure...but warming up is on a different planet than "pre-fatigue". You usually only pre-fatigue a muscle if it is interfering or becoming the optimal mover in an exercise when the goal is another muscle group.

I don't "pre-fatigue" anything.

I warm up like crazy though now.


I personally find the opposite. I find that if I pre exhaust my triceps before working my shoulders, my triceps end up failing before my shoulders and I get a less than stellar shoulder workout.



But...the whole goal of pre-exhausting them is so they fail first.

You are mad because it did what it was supposed to do?

That is WHY you pre-exhaust a muscle group...so it fails first and doesn't interfere with the TARGET muscle group.

That is why pre-exhausting chest on CHEST DAY makes little sense.

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The Mighty Stu
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^Not the explanation most people I've known would use.

As multiple muscles work in conjunction on a compound lift, the one that is naturally stronger (larger?) would require more stress (reps? weight? TUT?) to stimulate a response before the smaller ones.

So in the case of chest pressing, an isolation movement such as DB flyes would target specifically the pecs, creating an already weakened starting point when they are called into play during the subsequent pressing motion. Essentially lowering the threshold of the strongest muscle (pecs) to a more level playing field with the others (delts and triceps).

This is a very useful approach when the target muscle (pecs in this case) cannot be adequatelty stimulated due to the limited strength levels of the secondary muscles (tris and delts)

S

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DSSG
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But if a muscle fails... How do you continue? Since if your triceps are no longer able to lock a weight out for you, would a different muscle take over?

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Professor X
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The Mighty Stu wrote:
^Not the explanation most people I've known would use.

As multiple muscles work in conjunction on a compound lift, the one that is naturally stronger (larger?) would require more stress (reps? weight? TUT?) to stimulate a response before the smaller ones.



? If I am training chest, THAT is my goal. Why would I care about the triceps?




So in the case of chest pressing, an isolation movement such as DB flyes would target specifically the pecs, creating an already weakened starting point when they are called into play during the subsequent pressing motion. Essentially lowering the threshold of the strongest muscle (pecs) to a more level playing field with the others (delts and triceps).

S


Why would I want to weaken my chest WHEN TRAINING MY CHEST IN PRIORITY??

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Professor X
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DSSG wrote:
But if a muscle fails... How do you continue? Since if your triceps are no longer able to lock a weight out for you, would a different muscle take over?



It would require your shoulders to handle the load with even less help from the triceps. Get it?

That is why you PRE-FATIGUE it.

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Professor X
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If MY goal is chest...and my triceps interfere and always take more of the load, I PRE-FATIGUE the triceps so they are more out of the picture when I train chest...so my chest gets more of the load.

That means more chest growth.

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The Mighty Stu
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Because developing size and strength are two different things. If developing your chest is your priority, and your body naturally shifts the stress to tris and delts for whatever reason, you may never fully reach the point of fatigue with your pecs enough to cause optimal stimulus.

S

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Professor X
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It seems that "compound movements" have taken the term from "bodybuilding" and switched it a little.

In bodybuilding, many people trained muscle groups. If I want a huge ass chest and my shoulders always fire first and keep that from happening, I PRE-FATIGUE my shoulders.

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Professor X
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The Mighty Stu wrote:
Because developing size and strength are two different things. If developing your chest is your priority, and your body naturally shifts the stress to tris and delts for whatever reason, you may never fully reach the point of fatigue with your pecs enough to cause optimal stimulus.

S



Which is why in that case you would PRE-FATIGUE your tris and delts so you CAN get a huge chest.

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The Mighty Stu
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Professor X wrote:
The Mighty Stu wrote:
Because developing size and strength are two different things. If developing your chest is your priority, and your body naturally shifts the stress to tris and delts for whatever reason, you may never fully reach the point of fatigue with your pecs enough to cause optimal stimulus.

S



Which is why in that case you would PRE-FATIGUE your tris and delts so you CAN get a huge chest.


Well then by your own logic, I must be doing it wrong -lol.

I'm out.

S

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Professor X
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I am laughing at how the definition got switched.


I PRE-FATIGUE my forearms before training biceps because my forearms fire first.

That has now led to more biceps growth.

The way you guy are doing it, I would train biceps first...which would suck because my forearms would still fire first.

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