Building High-Performance Muscle™
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Natural Lifter: Bulking Diet
 

JBL5
Level 1

Join date: Sep 2011
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 87

ryanbCXG wrote:
I do agree by strict definition that is lean mass. The problem I see with that is most of that water will make you look like shit if you are gaining that fast. The amount of food gaining that fast will make you look bad. The extra fat you put on also looks bad. Most of that extra stuff needs to be peeled away to see what you actually gained.

That is why IMO it's better to look at it as muscle gain and judge that by pictures to determine the leanness at the start and then after gaining and getting back to the original leanness or leaner and comparing weights and pictures. I put on 30lbs over 3 months this spring into summer. Abs were still there but I was so bloated and watery and stomach was full of food cut back a little and dropped 10lbs of water. Cut back further and honestly not much was gained muscle or fat. So sure you put on weight fast but what does weight really mean jack shit. It's about the look and muscle looks much better than all that other stuff.


Yeah I agree with all that. Problem is that for an average gym rat it is so hard to really know how much pure muscle tissue was actually gained. But for aesthetic reasons it is definitely the muscle tissue that counts.

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ryanbCXG
Level 5

Join date: Dec 2010
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 4978

JBL5 wrote:
ryanbCXG wrote:
I do agree by strict definition that is lean mass. The problem I see with that is most of that water will make you look like shit if you are gaining that fast. The amount of food gaining that fast will make you look bad. The extra fat you put on also looks bad. Most of that extra stuff needs to be peeled away to see what you actually gained.

That is why IMO it's better to look at it as muscle gain and judge that by pictures to determine the leanness at the start and then after gaining and getting back to the original leanness or leaner and comparing weights and pictures. I put on 30lbs over 3 months this spring into summer. Abs were still there but I was so bloated and watery and stomach was full of food cut back a little and dropped 10lbs of water. Cut back further and honestly not much was gained muscle or fat. So sure you put on weight fast but what does weight really mean jack shit. It's about the look and muscle looks much better than all that other stuff.


Yeah I agree with all that. Problem is that for an average gym rat it is so hard to really know how much pure muscle tissue was actually gained. But for aesthetic reasons it is definitely the muscle tissue that counts.


Aren't most avg gym rests there for aesthetics? So wouldn't it be everyone's goal to gain the most of what looks the best. Now pling and strongman are different but even those are shifting to getting as lean and strong in a weight class.

Also the reason I bring up such specifics when judging progress is people throw these numbers around what they or friends gained without realizing what it is and how much it actually worked or didn't, without beter judging parameters. Hard to make good adjustments in diet and training to further progress if you think you are gaining great in reality you bloating gaining some fat holding extra digested food and adding a bit of muscle.

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infinite_shore
Level

Join date: Jul 2012
Location:
Posts: 1332

Bauber wrote:
infinite_shore wrote:
Bauber wrote:
infinite_shore wrote:
Bauber wrote:
ryanbCXG wrote:
optheta wrote:
ryanbCXG wrote:
optheta wrote:
Errybody shuold just take roids then maybe they would have a better grasp of body composition, because you would see the changes faster.


But used poorly you see lots blot and water and not too much in true gains lol.


Ehh fuck it, if you have a goal that is similar or surpassed physique contest build your better off being on them then doing it natty, its the truth.


Never said they shouldn't be used. More like research extra before hand so you aren't a fuck tard when you start and can actually get everything out of them. They aren't magic. Not even close


Don't I wish they were magic.


I always find the use of "they aren't magic" in this context a bit misleading. I know that people roughly mean that taking them won't lead to continuous and effortless hypertrophy/fat loss, but surely the things this stuff can do to you when administered properly (+proper training+nutrition) can be considered "magical". Shit doesn't have to be idiot-proof or effortless to be magical.

Back to the thread:
Can we not simply agree here on TN for future threads that the muscle gain limits apply to EVERYONE except PX? After all, we can all agree here that he is a very, very special guy.


Well I guess when I think "magcial", I think no work and just instant progress without changing diet or routine.

So many kids approach me, I mean literally 3-6 a week at the big commercial gym I attend and ask my about PEDs. What they should take, what I take, how much, where do I get them, can you get them for me? Etc. And the biggest common factor is every single one explains how they want to get huge and are lifting hard and eating, but not gaining any size or strength and they think magically without changing anything else tossing PEDs in is going to swolle them out.

Many of them think in 6 months time they are going to be using the same weights I am and be just as heavy.


Sure, I understand all that. But put some of the intermediate natty guys on here on the good stuff and they will have some "magic" going over a good year. But I think we all agree on that.


Very true.


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335i
Level

Join date: Aug 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 42

Airtruth wrote:
The OP should either hire a coach or give up. If you did a "Dirty" bulk to 240, then cut 20% of fat and didn't learn anything that would help you, then you are just wasting your time. Physical training in all sports is a cyclic process where your are constantly assessing and honing your skills to do better next time. Even if it's slowly adjusting your diet so that you eat correct.

All that being said throw out the scale for a year. Concentrate on other core principles of nutrition and training, learn from that.


If I didn't learn anything, I'd be shoveling 5000 Cals down per day and not asking for minor critiques on a drastically different approach to bulking.

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