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bignate
Level 1

Join date: Jun 2008
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 3501

neck harness the shit out of your neck

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waylanderxx
Level 3

Join date: Mar 2008
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Posts: 8965

Of all the times I've seen people do shrugs in the gym I've never seen any of them with good trap development. I feel like any row, deadlift and power cleans are much more effective.

Not saying shrugs don't work, I'm just not a fan.

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Professor X
Level 5

Join date: Oct 2002
Location:
Posts: 51898

waylanderxx wrote:
Of all the times I've seen people do shrugs in the gym I've never seen any of them with good trap development. I feel like any row, deadlift and power cleans are much more effective.

Not saying shrugs don't work, I'm just not a fan.



How many people do you see with good traps period? Hell, even on this site how many people here really have stand out trap development that really looks like they pout some time into it?

Really. How many?

Let's post pics for confirmation.

Most of the people I see doing shrugs aren't going that heavy..or they cheat too much...or they haven't even been lifting that long.

While we're at it, I don't see anyone with huge traps who focuses intently on deadlifts and rack pulls either.

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austin_bicep
Level 1

Join date: Sep 2007
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 5149

Professor X wrote:
While we're at it, I don't see anyone with huge traps who focuses intently on deadlifts and rack pulls either.


Strongmen...All of them have huge Yokes, and I don't see any of them doing much if any shrugging and deadlifts/rack pulls and just lifting heavy compound movements in general is what they focus on.

At the end of the day, I think lift heavy on everything, eat correctly and you'll build up your yoke.

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Professor X
Level 5

Join date: Oct 2002
Location:
Posts: 51898

austin_bicep wrote:
Professor X wrote:
While we're at it, I don't see anyone with huge traps who focuses intently on deadlifts and rack pulls either.


Strongmen...All of them have huge Yokes, and I don't see any of them doing much if any shrugging and deadlifts/rack pulls and just lifting heavy compound movements in general is what they focus on.

At the end of the day, I think lift heavy on everything, eat correctly and you'll build up your yoke.



Meanwhile, out of the hundreds of people on this site training like "strongmen", how many have developed HUGE traps?


Yes, lift heavy is the answer and training them directly is as well. Nothing hits them DIRECTLY more than shrugs and how many people shrugging over 500lbs without complete reliance on straps have small traps?

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SteelyD
Level 4

Join date: Jun 2007
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 12050

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austin_bicep
Level 1

Join date: Sep 2007
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 5149

[quote]SteelyD wrote:


I swear to God, I saw you posted a video on my iphone but I can't view them on there, anyone who posts a video I get just a blank comment box for their post. Anyways, I knew you posted this before I saw it. Haha

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SteelyD
Level 4

Join date: Jun 2007
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 12050

austin_bicep wrote:

I swear to God, I saw you posted a video on my iphone but I can't view them on there, anyone who posts a video I get just a blank comment box for their post. Anyways, I knew you posted this before I saw it. Haha


Get off my wavelength!!! ;)

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PB Andy
Level 100

Join date: Mar 2006
Location: Illinois, USA
Posts: 9473

Professor X wrote:
PB Andy wrote:
1. Deadlift

2. Power cleans

3. BB or DB rows

4. Neck Harness

5. Shoulder girdle stuff: Face pulls, rear laterals, Joe DeFranco scarecrow, etc

6. Optional: shrugs.

Credit to Jim Wendler on these suggestions. He has one big fucking yoke.



I don't do half that shit and have traps about that size.

That's good, I am glad for you (truly). Some may not have that luxury of getting big traps from just shrugs, though.

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PB Andy
Level 100

Join date: Mar 2006
Location: Illinois, USA
Posts: 9473

Professor X wrote:
ag918w35 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
PB Andy wrote:
1. Deadlift

2. Power cleans

3. BB or DB rows

4. Neck Harness

5. Shoulder girdle stuff: Face pulls, rear laterals, Joe DeFranco scarecrow, etc

6. Optional: shrugs.

Credit to Jim Wendler on these suggestions. He has one big fucking yoke.



I don't do half that shit and have traps about that size.


I thought your advice was to watch what the guys with big traps do and follow that, rather than listen to some random guy spouting what he read on another site. So, the poster put up a program recommended by a guy with big traps and now you're saying it doesn't count because he doesn't train to be a body-builder?

Would any advice that differed from what works for you be acceptable to you? Just because your program has clearly worked for you doesn't mean that 1) it will work for everybody and 2) no other program will work.



Wait, are you really asking why would you listen to someone who is big and trains like you will train? That needs an explanation?

I am also commenting on SOMEONE ELSE writing what SOMEONE ELSE does WHO ISN'T THEM when that very person may not even recommend doing the same if they were here themselves.

Ask Jim Wendler if he thinks you should do all of that just for direct trap growth. Don't listen to some OTHER GUY on the internet acting like he is speaking for the man.

Most of the guys here don't have really big traps yet are speaking for other people and acting like they do.

Bottom line, Jim Wendler didn't write that advice to you. You didn't even ask Jim Wendler. Some random guy who isn't big spoke for Jim Wendler and you ate it up. How the hell does that make sense?

My point is that while shrugs are kick ass, I just don't think they are the best for a lot of people, regardless of how many bodybuilders you see doing them. I see some bodybuilders doing a lot of things in videos I wouldn't want to do at my stage for growth.

Secondly, when I was actually focused on getting big and was eating enough to grow, I found nothing better for my traps than 3-5 rep power cleans. I always felt shrugs weren't as effective. In fact now that I remember, my traps were always ridiculously sore when I did cleans, not shrugs, and that to me means that it is a more effective exercise for that body part,

Now I have to eat/train to stay in a weight class (231 lbs) but I still think I have some decent traps for not eating nearly enough. I'll try to get a pic in the next few days.

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bugeishaAD
Level 3

Join date: Aug 2007
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 3439

Way doesn't have to shrug because traps are a dominant body part. <3

I have fairly dominant/easy-growing traps that sit pretty and high. I wouldn't call them huge because I'm not huge yet (235-240 at a lil above 6 foot). I do 2-3 sets of heavy, high rep shrugs at the end of my back workout to give them some more stimulation. I also think they benefit from heavy rows and deadlift variations.

As an aside, my old training partner had some of the freakiest traps I'd ever seen. When he competed in NPC teen nationals (placed 5th a few years ago), they looked like 2 testicles on the side of his neck. Was awesome. On Sundays, he would go into the gym wearing jeans (since he always tore up gym shorts), and did barbell shrugs for like 30 minutes, and then DB shrugs, and then neck machines. Psycho.

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Ty Carlson
Level 3

Join date: Jul 2008
Location:
Posts: 696

Professor X wrote:
ag918w35 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
PB Andy wrote:
1. Deadlift

2. Power cleans

3. BB or DB rows

4. Neck Harness

5. Shoulder girdle stuff: Face pulls, rear laterals, Joe DeFranco scarecrow, etc

6. Optional: shrugs.

Credit to Jim Wendler on these suggestions. He has one big fucking yoke.



I don't do half that shit and have traps about that size.


I thought your advice was to watch what the guys with big traps do and follow that, rather than listen to some random guy spouting what he read on another site. So, the poster put up a program recommended by a guy with big traps and now you're saying it doesn't count because he doesn't train to be a body-builder?

Would any advice that differed from what works for you be acceptable to you? Just because your program has clearly worked for you doesn't mean that 1) it will work for everybody and 2) no other program will work.



Wait, are you really asking why would you listen to someone who is big and trains like you will train? That needs an explanation?

I am also commenting on SOMEONE ELSE writing what SOMEONE ELSE does WHO ISN'T THEM when that very person may not even recommend doing the same if they were here themselves.

Ask Jim Wendler if he thinks you should do all of that just for direct trap growth. Don't listen to some OTHER GUY on the internet acting like he is speaking for the man.

Most of the guys here don't have really big traps yet are speaking for other people and acting like they do.

Bottom line, Jim Wendler didn't write that advice to you. You didn't even ask Jim Wendler. Some random guy who isn't big spoke for Jim Wendler and you ate it up. How the hell does that make sense?


Actually, those 6 suggestions were taken directly from an article on elitefts.com that was written by Jim Wendler about "building a massive yoke" or something like that

......so yeah, that advice actually was written by Jim Wendler.

but since the great ProfX said different, Jim must be wrong....I guess someone should inform him :(

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BONEZ217
Level 2

Join date: Feb 2007
Location: Singapore
Posts: 11473

Professor X wrote:
waylanderxx wrote:
Of all the times I've seen people do shrugs in the gym I've never seen any of them with good trap development. I feel like any row, deadlift and power cleans are much more effective.

Not saying shrugs don't work, I'm just not a fan.



How many people do you see with good traps period? Hell, even on this site how many people here really have stand out trap development that really looks like they pout some time into it?

Really. How many?

Let's post pics for confirmation.

Most of the people I see doing shrugs aren't going that heavy..or they cheat too much...or they haven't even been lifting that long.

While we're at it, I don't see anyone with huge traps who focuses intently on deadlifts and rack pulls either.



Im sure Im not the only person who's first language is english that sees how this is completely lacking any logic.

How does the underachievement of others have anything to do with what things work to build big traps?

None of the substance in your posts is untrue but how does it apply at all to what's being discussed. Usually you ask your own questions and then asnswer them but this time youre just talking about random shit.

If Wendlers stuff doesnt work BECAUSE people underacheive how would shrugs change anything?

If you cant acknowledge that there's more than one way to skin a cat it's impossible to disagree with what Wendler said. Seriously.

Instead of avoiding saying that things besides shrugs work by changing the subject, just save some face and concede that people get big without doing every/only things you do.

Do you have some bet with someone that you will never admit error on the internet or something? Shit's weird

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BONEZ217
Level 2

Join date: Feb 2007
Location: Singapore
Posts: 11473

Smith Machine shrugs and rack pulls. I train my traps once or twice a month.


Im of the opinion that traps are like calves. You have them or you dont. Before I started lifting I had traps. For over a year I didnt train them becuase I focused on looking wider. They still grew from side lateral raises, facepulls, and other pulling movements.


/subjective theory on whatever topic this thread is on

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actionboy
Level

Join date: Nov 2009
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 722

BONEZ217 wrote:
Smith Machine shrugs and rack pulls. I train my traps once or twice a month.


Im of the opinion that traps are like calves. You have them or you dont. Before I started lifting I had traps. For over a year I didnt train them becuase I focused on looking wider. They still grew from side lateral raises, facepulls, and other pulling movements.


/subjective theory on whatever topic this thread is on


damn you bonez!

i quit.

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Professor X
Level 5

Join date: Oct 2002
Location:
Posts: 51898

BONEZ217 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
waylanderxx wrote:
Of all the times I've seen people do shrugs in the gym I've never seen any of them with good trap development. I feel like any row, deadlift and power cleans are much more effective.

Not saying shrugs don't work, I'm just not a fan.



How many people do you see with good traps period? Hell, even on this site how many people here really have stand out trap development that really looks like they pout some time into it?

Really. How many?

Let's post pics for confirmation.

Most of the people I see doing shrugs aren't going that heavy..or they cheat too much...or they haven't even been lifting that long.

While we're at it, I don't see anyone with huge traps who focuses intently on deadlifts and rack pulls either.



Im sure Im not the only person who's first language is english that sees how this is completely lacking any logic.

How does the underachievement of others have anything to do with what things work to build big traps?

None of the substance in your posts is untrue but how does it apply at all to what's being discussed. Usually you ask your own questions and then asnswer them but this time youre just talking about random shit.

If Wendlers stuff doesnt work BECAUSE people underacheive how would shrugs change anything?

If you cant acknowledge that there's more than one way to skin a cat it's impossible to disagree with what Wendler said. Seriously.

Instead of avoiding saying that things besides shrugs work by changing the subject, just save some face and concede that people get big without doing every/only things you do.

Do you have some bet with someone that you will never admit error on the internet or something? Shit's weird


Genius, Way is the one who used the underachievment of others by using it in relation to shrugs...as if shrugs don't work because he doesn't see people with big traps who do them.

I simply tossed it back at him....yet you came after me for it and not him.

Interesting.

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BONEZ217
Level 2

Join date: Feb 2007
Location: Singapore
Posts: 11473

Professor X wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
waylanderxx wrote:
Of all the times I've seen people do shrugs in the gym I've never seen any of them with good trap development. I feel like any row, deadlift and power cleans are much more effective.

Not saying shrugs don't work, I'm just not a fan.



How many people do you see with good traps period? Hell, even on this site how many people here really have stand out trap development that really looks like they pout some time into it?

Really. How many?

Let's post pics for confirmation.

Most of the people I see doing shrugs aren't going that heavy..or they cheat too much...or they haven't even been lifting that long.

While we're at it, I don't see anyone with huge traps who focuses intently on deadlifts and rack pulls either.



Im sure Im not the only person who's first language is english that sees how this is completely lacking any logic.

How does the underachievement of others have anything to do with what things work to build big traps?

None of the substance in your posts is untrue but how does it apply at all to what's being discussed. Usually you ask your own questions and then asnswer them but this time youre just talking about random shit.

If Wendlers stuff doesnt work BECAUSE people underacheive how would shrugs change anything?

If you cant acknowledge that there's more than one way to skin a cat it's impossible to disagree with what Wendler said. Seriously.

Instead of avoiding saying that things besides shrugs work by changing the subject, just save some face and concede that people get big without doing every/only things you do.

Do you have some bet with someone that you will never admit error on the internet or something? Shit's weird


Genius, Way is the one who used the underachievment of others by using it in relation to shrugs...as if shrugs don't work because he doesn't see people with big traps who do them.

I simply tossed it back at him....yet you came after me for it and not him.

Interesting.


Its not really that interesting.

I was referring to each post you made after the guy posted the picture of Wendler.


I do shrugs for my primary trap builder. Wendler doesnt. You do. Waylander doesnt.

Thats 4 people at different levels of development who are doing things right using different methods.

CLEARLY shrugs are not the only OR best way to build big traps.

But Im of the opinion that genetics are the best way to build big traps (overall and compared to other muscles) so I believe that providing as many reasonable choices as possible is the way to go.

Or just do shrugs, who gives a fuck, it's the internet and 85% of the people reading this wont build big traps because girls think theyre gross.

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ebomb5522
Level 5

Join date: Jun 2008
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 3973

I think traps have a lot to do with genetics, shrugs have always helped me, but I also think that any type of back movement or deadlift/rack pull will build traps as you progress. Look at someone rowing 225 vs 405, guy rowing 405 is probably going to have bigger traps regardless of whether or not he shrugs.
If you're just talking about pure trap development, shrugs probably are better, but I think heavy deads, rack pulls, or rows for someone at the OPs level are sufficient.

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detazathoth
Level 3

Join date: Jan 2007
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 5384

Holy LOL, so much fail in this thread

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Mackk
Level

Join date: Nov 2008
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 312

Professor X wrote:
PB Andy wrote:
1. Deadlift

2. Power cleans

3. BB or DB rows

4. Neck Harness

5. Shoulder girdle stuff: Face pulls, rear laterals, Joe DeFranco scarecrow, etc

6. Optional: shrugs.

Credit to Jim Wendler on these suggestions. He has one big fucking yoke.



I don't do half that shit and have traps about that size.


/initiate golf-clap

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bb83
Level

Join date: Nov 2010
Location: Saskatchewan, CAN
Posts: 1

All I gotta say, is Prof X is the dumbest Mo$%@#$#@ ever, and Jim Wendler doesn't know shit.



God you Fail....


Deadlifts work just fine, as do rows and cleans. And if you dont want to do those, shrugs are fine. But dont be like "prof" X and think you are hardcore, because you can shrug and cant deadlift for a crap.

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inkaddict
Level 3

Join date: Mar 2005
Location:
Posts: 8684

bb83 wrote:
All I gotta say, is Prof X is the dumbest Mo$%@#$#@ ever, and Jim Wendler doesn't know shit.



God you Fail....


Deadlifts work just fine, as do rows and cleans. And if you dont want to do those, shrugs are fine. But dont be like "prof" X and think you are hardcore, because you can shrug and cant deadlift for a crap.

Quite possibly the best 1st post ever.

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Professor X
Level 5

Join date: Oct 2002
Location:
Posts: 51898

Ty Carlson wrote:
Professor X wrote:
ag918w35 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
PB Andy wrote:
1. Deadlift

2. Power cleans

3. BB or DB rows

4. Neck Harness

5. Shoulder girdle stuff: Face pulls, rear laterals, Joe DeFranco scarecrow, etc

6. Optional: shrugs.

Credit to Jim Wendler on these suggestions. He has one big fucking yoke.



I don't do half that shit and have traps about that size.


I thought your advice was to watch what the guys with big traps do and follow that, rather than listen to some random guy spouting what he read on another site. So, the poster put up a program recommended by a guy with big traps and now you're saying it doesn't count because he doesn't train to be a body-builder?

Would any advice that differed from what works for you be acceptable to you? Just because your program has clearly worked for you doesn't mean that 1) it will work for everybody and 2) no other program will work.



Wait, are you really asking why would you listen to someone who is big and trains like you will train? That needs an explanation?

I am also commenting on SOMEONE ELSE writing what SOMEONE ELSE does WHO ISN'T THEM when that very person may not even recommend doing the same if they were here themselves.

Ask Jim Wendler if he thinks you should do all of that just for direct trap growth. Don't listen to some OTHER GUY on the internet acting like he is speaking for the man.

Most of the guys here don't have really big traps yet are speaking for other people and acting like they do.

Bottom line, Jim Wendler didn't write that advice to you. You didn't even ask Jim Wendler. Some random guy who isn't big spoke for Jim Wendler and you ate it up. How the hell does that make sense?


Actually, those 6 suggestions were taken directly from an article on elitefts.com that was written by Jim Wendler about "building a massive yoke" or something like that

......so yeah, that advice actually was written by Jim Wendler.

but since the great ProfX said different, Jim must be wrong....I guess someone should inform him :(



This post is dumb. No one said Jim Wendler is wrong. I said go to the source. That is what that post means.

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Professor X
Level 5

Join date: Oct 2002
Location:
Posts: 51898

BONEZ217 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
waylanderxx wrote:
Of all the times I've seen people do shrugs in the gym I've never seen any of them with good trap development. I feel like any row, deadlift and power cleans are much more effective.

Not saying shrugs don't work, I'm just not a fan.



How many people do you see with good traps period? Hell, even on this site how many people here really have stand out trap development that really looks like they pout some time into it?

Really. How many?

Let's post pics for confirmation.

Most of the people I see doing shrugs aren't going that heavy..or they cheat too much...or they haven't even been lifting that long.

While we're at it, I don't see anyone with huge traps who focuses intently on deadlifts and rack pulls either.



Im sure Im not the only person who's first language is english that sees how this is completely lacking any logic.

How does the underachievement of others have anything to do with what things work to build big traps?

None of the substance in your posts is untrue but how does it apply at all to what's being discussed. Usually you ask your own questions and then asnswer them but this time youre just talking about random shit.

If Wendlers stuff doesnt work BECAUSE people underacheive how would shrugs change anything?

If you cant acknowledge that there's more than one way to skin a cat it's impossible to disagree with what Wendler said. Seriously.

Instead of avoiding saying that things besides shrugs work by changing the subject, just save some face and concede that people get big without doing every/only things you do.

Do you have some bet with someone that you will never admit error on the internet or something? Shit's weird


Genius, Way is the one who used the underachievment of others by using it in relation to shrugs...as if shrugs don't work because he doesn't see people with big traps who do them.

I simply tossed it back at him....yet you came after me for it and not him.

Interesting.


Its not really that interesting.

I was referring to each post you made after the guy posted the picture of Wendler.


I do shrugs for my primary trap builder. Wendler doesnt. You do. Waylander doesnt.

Thats 4 people at different levels of development who are doing things right using different methods.

CLEARLY shrugs are not the only OR best way to build big traps.

But Im of the opinion that genetics are the best way to build big traps (overall and compared to other muscles) so I believe that providing as many reasonable choices as possible is the way to go.

Or just do shrugs, who gives a fuck, it's the internet and 85% of the people reading this wont build big traps because girls think theyre gross.



No one said shrugs were the ONLY way to train that area, but if your goal is development of traps, train them directly first before you add in tons of exercises under the belief that working it directly is somehow inferior.

Why pass up the most direct and efficient route under the assumption that it isn't good enough?

Your last sentence may be right, but what good would it do to discuss ANY of this if we assume none of these guys have the potential?

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Clown Face
Level 1

Join date: Oct 2008
Location: England
Posts: 292

Isn't the answer just to do what it takes. If you don't need shrugs to build up your traps then don't do them. If they become a weak point do them!

I don't use shrugs. I let deadlifts and rows etc take care of traps. I don't want my traps getting bigger because my shoulders are naturally very narrow, and my traps are pretty developed for my size.

Some of you may say that's crap, you should do them to bigger overall. To you I say bodybuilding is not just about sheer size, it's about proportions!

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